Now he is really gone.
- Thread starter Copabanana
- Start date
AppleCori
Well-Known Member
Copa,
The advice here is not 'one size fits all'.
You need to decide if it fits your situation.
I have often wondered about this phenomenon.
I have a step-father and five step-siblings (from two different dads), none of whom have ever (as far as I know) gotten a place to live on their own, paying utilities, rent, bills, etc. Not sure why. None of them are mentally ill, as far as I know, and none have less than a normal IQ. I do think some of them may have some fetal-alcohol problems, just based on the fact that their mother was an alcoholic, but no outward symptoms.
The two females have always bounced from man to man.
The males have all pretty much done the same thing, except from my one (favorite) brother, who has been with the same girl, on and off, since they were teens. Her parents stepped in for the first ten years or so, then they became self-supporting, mainly because the wife has always kept a job. They now have six grandchildren. I just sent them a check for a used car to help get them back on their feet after a job loss and some horrible financial decisions on their part. If the wife were to leave my brother, I don't know how he would live. I'm serious. He is disabled and in a lot of pain, and I think he would kill himself rather than live alone. In fact, I know he would. He has said as much.
Anyway, this rambling is just to say that sometimes we need to take a look at our particular situation and decided, with a clear mind, what is the best decision to make.
Maybe your son needs help with his living situation.
I would look into Social Services/Mental Health Services to see what may be available. I'm sure, since he is disabled, he would qualify.
Apple
The advice here is not 'one size fits all'.
You need to decide if it fits your situation.
I have often wondered about this phenomenon.
I have a step-father and five step-siblings (from two different dads), none of whom have ever (as far as I know) gotten a place to live on their own, paying utilities, rent, bills, etc. Not sure why. None of them are mentally ill, as far as I know, and none have less than a normal IQ. I do think some of them may have some fetal-alcohol problems, just based on the fact that their mother was an alcoholic, but no outward symptoms.
The two females have always bounced from man to man.
The males have all pretty much done the same thing, except from my one (favorite) brother, who has been with the same girl, on and off, since they were teens. Her parents stepped in for the first ten years or so, then they became self-supporting, mainly because the wife has always kept a job. They now have six grandchildren. I just sent them a check for a used car to help get them back on their feet after a job loss and some horrible financial decisions on their part. If the wife were to leave my brother, I don't know how he would live. I'm serious. He is disabled and in a lot of pain, and I think he would kill himself rather than live alone. In fact, I know he would. He has said as much.
Anyway, this rambling is just to say that sometimes we need to take a look at our particular situation and decided, with a clear mind, what is the best decision to make.
Maybe your son needs help with his living situation.
I would look into Social Services/Mental Health Services to see what may be available. I'm sure, since he is disabled, he would qualify.
Apple
Childofmine
one day at a time
I think the discussion here about "gray" areas is one of the key issues we have to deal with as parents of DCs, and one of the most exhausting. If we could just decide and let that be it, finito, wouldn't that be liberating for us?
I think of my other son, the easy child, and interacting with him. It is always changing too, but the ups and downs are not so drastic and scary and life-threatening so it isn't exhausting like it is with DCs.
So, so right here. It changes all the time, which means we have to be constantly assessing, thinking, feeling, deciding. That is so tiring and stressful at times. So tiring.
It strikes me that one thing that has really helped me navigate the gray areas is to have several core beliefs about all of this, like:
1. Let time go by. Don't stay in contact every day or even every other day. Once a week is usually very good for me and it suffices.
2. Keep my work on me front and center. Don't put it off. It gets me stronger for the hard times.
3. When I'm talking and interacting with Difficult Child, I try to keep it short and simple, and not get into a lot of back and forth. He is still who he is, even though he is doing much much better, and he can be stressful for me.
4. I don't need to know everything. In fact, the New Me doesn't want to know much at all. That is huge for me (formerly a master controller, information seeker and manager, etc.).
5. They will figure it out, and it will likely be ugly and chaotic and messy along the way. that's okay. That's how people learn.
6. When they really "tell me" listen and accept it. It may be ridiculous and I may not like it at all but they are adults, and they have a right to set boundaries with me too. I learned a whole lot during easy child's wedding planning process (I shared here, so you may remember). I got way over into their business and they set me straight. It hurt my feelings and I didn't like it and I thought they were wrong, but finally i had to accept it and I got over it, and it all worked out just fine.
I think living in gray is the human way to live, and it's hard. So hard.
Warm hugs today, friends.
I think of my other son, the easy child, and interacting with him. It is always changing too, but the ups and downs are not so drastic and scary and life-threatening so it isn't exhausting like it is with DCs.
So, so right here. It changes all the time, which means we have to be constantly assessing, thinking, feeling, deciding. That is so tiring and stressful at times. So tiring.
It strikes me that one thing that has really helped me navigate the gray areas is to have several core beliefs about all of this, like:
1. Let time go by. Don't stay in contact every day or even every other day. Once a week is usually very good for me and it suffices.
2. Keep my work on me front and center. Don't put it off. It gets me stronger for the hard times.
3. When I'm talking and interacting with Difficult Child, I try to keep it short and simple, and not get into a lot of back and forth. He is still who he is, even though he is doing much much better, and he can be stressful for me.
4. I don't need to know everything. In fact, the New Me doesn't want to know much at all. That is huge for me (formerly a master controller, information seeker and manager, etc.).
5. They will figure it out, and it will likely be ugly and chaotic and messy along the way. that's okay. That's how people learn.
6. When they really "tell me" listen and accept it. It may be ridiculous and I may not like it at all but they are adults, and they have a right to set boundaries with me too. I learned a whole lot during easy child's wedding planning process (I shared here, so you may remember). I got way over into their business and they set me straight. It hurt my feelings and I didn't like it and I thought they were wrong, but finally i had to accept it and I got over it, and it all worked out just fine.
I think living in gray is the human way to live, and it's hard. So hard.
Warm hugs today, friends.
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
"Life is a box of chocolates, you never know which one you are going to get."
I think life is a series of adjustments.
Especially with our d cs.
Small changes for them, are actually huge.
We go through so much, we adjust.
The work you have already done, Copa is amazing. So I think that you will be much better at maintaining steady state, and not sink into the swirly whirly of it all.
Whatever you and M decide is right for you both and your son. Take it slowly, one day, one step at time, and if it gets overwhelming step back and take time to review.
I am thinking of you and praying that you are able to hold on to your peace of mind.
I am very glad that you have M to anchor you.
Please take care of yourself and your needs. You matter.
(((HUGS)))
leafy
I think life is a series of adjustments.
Especially with our d cs.
Small changes for them, are actually huge.
We go through so much, we adjust.
The work you have already done, Copa is amazing. So I think that you will be much better at maintaining steady state, and not sink into the swirly whirly of it all.
Whatever you and M decide is right for you both and your son. Take it slowly, one day, one step at time, and if it gets overwhelming step back and take time to review.
I am thinking of you and praying that you are able to hold on to your peace of mind.
I am very glad that you have M to anchor you.
Please take care of yourself and your needs. You matter.
(((HUGS)))
leafy
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Copa, this is what I found when reading about Eckhart Tolle. It has never ceased to amaze me that this brilliant man dropped out of school and spent two years couch surfing and sitting on a bench people watching and..thinking......
https://www.eckharttolle.com/article/Eckhart-Tolle-Oprah-Winfreys-Favorite-Guru
"Tolle's transformative experience, which happened in 1979, didn't lead to instant global stardom: commercialising his insights was apparently the furthest thing from his mind. Instead, he embarked on a doctorate in Latin American literature at Cambridge. But it felt meaningless; he dropped out after a year. He spent the next two years in London, sleeping on friends' sofas, and spending the days on park benches in Russell Square, or sheltering in the British Library. When money ran out, he took a temp job doing office admin for the Kennel Club. "Externally, one would have said 'this person is completely lost'," he says. "My mother was very upset, because in her view, I had thrown everything away. And from a logical point of view, that looked quite correct." His father helped him pay for a flat, and he began to run small group teaching sessions in friends' living-rooms. But there were many more years to come of what looked, from the outside, like drifting - including a long spell on the west coast of the United States, where he started to write The Power of Now.
I thought this was extremely interesting.........what his parents must have gone through at the time........they must have thought he was off his rocker........
(((HUGS)))
leafy
https://www.eckharttolle.com/article/Eckhart-Tolle-Oprah-Winfreys-Favorite-Guru
"Tolle's transformative experience, which happened in 1979, didn't lead to instant global stardom: commercialising his insights was apparently the furthest thing from his mind. Instead, he embarked on a doctorate in Latin American literature at Cambridge. But it felt meaningless; he dropped out after a year. He spent the next two years in London, sleeping on friends' sofas, and spending the days on park benches in Russell Square, or sheltering in the British Library. When money ran out, he took a temp job doing office admin for the Kennel Club. "Externally, one would have said 'this person is completely lost'," he says. "My mother was very upset, because in her view, I had thrown everything away. And from a logical point of view, that looked quite correct." His father helped him pay for a flat, and he began to run small group teaching sessions in friends' living-rooms. But there were many more years to come of what looked, from the outside, like drifting - including a long spell on the west coast of the United States, where he started to write The Power of Now.
I thought this was extremely interesting.........what his parents must have gone through at the time........they must have thought he was off his rocker........
(((HUGS)))
leafy
He was off his rocker. In the sense that, people to sit in a "rocker" don't get anywhere. If you're going to think outside of the box, you have to "be off your rocker". But at the time... unconventional thinking has always caused great angst, especially for parents.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
My son had one or two seizures when he was about 5. I took him to a pediatric neurologist at a Children's Hospital who said he had a marker associated with fetal alcohol syndrome, something about his eyes.
My son's birth mother drank and used multiple drugs. He was born drug exposed.
I was on a campaign his whole life long to fight against any stigma that he would face by being drug exposed.
It seems after all that the stigma was in me. That is to say, mine.
Thank you all.
COPA
To his credit and its a very good thing he never drink or takes drugs that is a real powerful will since even for us who do not have prior history with alchool are really pressed to drink most us do drink not on the abusing level but we drink.
I have to say your son is interesting he does seem to have very high level of control over himself.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Fetal alcohol spectrum is organic brain damage. If he has that, he cant help how he is and wont make good decions or be productively independent. He would need county adult supervision even though he is an adult. This interfers with all level of function.
This is possibly why your son does not learn from his mistakes and of course it is not any way your fault. BUT if he were alcohol exposed he needs help...I dont understand why youd hide it. Its no different than any sort of real disability such as downs syndome...
Huggles!
This is possibly why your son does not learn from his mistakes and of course it is not any way your fault. BUT if he were alcohol exposed he needs help...I dont understand why youd hide it. Its no different than any sort of real disability such as downs syndome...
Huggles!
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I do not know if he has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. But I think it is wrong of me to not be open to the possibility that his poor judgment and disorganization might be related to organic conditions over which he does not have control.
He is very brilliant and socially adept (when he chooses to be). That does not mean he does not have limitations. I need to accept that.
COPA
He is very brilliant and socially adept (when he chooses to be). That does not mean he does not have limitations. I need to accept that.
COPA
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your comment, Adad.
It is very helpful that you point out his strengths, because my focus, for bad or good, seem to be on his limitations. I see the glass half empty. I have had a psychiatrist point this out. Somebody who knows us both very well. He has commented the same thing as you have: That my son has chosen to not involve himself in seriously destructive things (like crime, drugs, alcohol) is a testament to his strengths and to my parenting.
I have been so hard on both myself and him, I need to hear this one more time. I do love him so much.
COPA
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Copa,bit is common for adopted kids in all countries to have fetal alcohol and drugs in utero and we cant expect kids with poisined brains to have the potential of those who dont. Did you pursue further testing when doctor said he has fetal alcohol features?
If he has any alcohol or drug affectsvit is unrealistic to expect him to act like a man with normal brain. Hard to accept, I know, but realistic. It is very likely mom drank and even took hard drugs during pregnsncy and it does affect the baby. Yes, they can be smart in certain ways but drugs and alcohol do affect the developing brain. In a conventionsl school setting, it may have been caught.
Copa, you and I can not adopt drug/alcohol exposed babies and expect them just tobe typically normal kids. They have diffetent degrees of damage before we even know them. Often it affects reasoning skills or understandinr right fro wrong and/makes them emotionally unstable/labile.
In our case we did everything we could to give sonic all interventions. We ecpected issues, worked on them with professionals and he is doing great considering his early prognosis. He is 95 percent independent but he still needs help sometimes.
Food for thought
If he has any alcohol or drug affectsvit is unrealistic to expect him to act like a man with normal brain. Hard to accept, I know, but realistic. It is very likely mom drank and even took hard drugs during pregnsncy and it does affect the baby. Yes, they can be smart in certain ways but drugs and alcohol do affect the developing brain. In a conventionsl school setting, it may have been caught.
Copa, you and I can not adopt drug/alcohol exposed babies and expect them just tobe typically normal kids. They have diffetent degrees of damage before we even know them. Often it affects reasoning skills or understandinr right fro wrong and/makes them emotionally unstable/labile.
In our case we did everything we could to give sonic all interventions. We ecpected issues, worked on them with professionals and he is doing great considering his early prognosis. He is 95 percent independent but he still needs help sometimes.
Food for thought
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
The first thing I did when he came home was to take him to a child neuropsychologist at a regional Children's Hospital who did the battery of tests. Mainly I remember that she said he had problems with sequencing. He went to a language therapist, right off, a therapist, and a behavioral nursery school. So he had interventions, intensively, from the beginning. Special Education was started in kindergarten.
I did not expect "normal" but I do not think I was realistic. I expected that his maturation would be "normal" whatever that is. I was unprepared, first, for him to turn against me, however normal that is, and I was unprepared for him to not fit into the normal upper middle class progression which people like me "expect" for their kids--college, etc.
I know it sounds crazy as I write it. How could I have expected all this when his background was so atypical. I mean, he was nearly 2 years in an orphanage. He was showing autistic-like behaviors, that were reversed, but still. He was traumatized.
I am telling the truth here, not to be hard on myself, but to reinforce to myself--our true achievement, his and my own.
That he would need a little help is no big deal. Given all that he has been through, he is indeed a hero. I need to acknowledge that. That we both did a good job.
I need to start working on that. To praise both of us. We did a good job. Maybe it is time to start rebuilding our family. As you are doing, Serenity, with your own. Maybe there is reason for hope.
Thank you,
COPA
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I was told when we adopted rhat blue collar middle class parents were the best adopters because it is very genetically likely that our adopted kids would not be up for college. We were wnle to accept sonic as hevwas...no expectations. We accepted however far or not far hed go. Actually we were laid back this way with all the kids.
Sonic did not.disappoint us. He is a shining star in our life.
Our kids have the temperment and intlligrnce of their biological parents. We need to stop thinking that they will achieve high aspirations if their birth parents didnt
I believe in nature trumping nurture. We were ready for this so were not disappointed in our adopted kids. They and bart are the loves of out lives and we are proud of them all. None finished college but all work hard.
Your son will do what he can do within his capabilities.
Sonic did not.disappoint us. He is a shining star in our life.
Our kids have the temperment and intlligrnce of their biological parents. We need to stop thinking that they will achieve high aspirations if their birth parents didnt
I believe in nature trumping nurture. We were ready for this so were not disappointed in our adopted kids. They and bart are the loves of out lives and we are proud of them all. None finished college but all work hard.
Your son will do what he can do within his capabilities.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Actually the temperament and intelligence of my own son are very like my own.
I think the way we have butted heads in this last decade is very like what would have likely occurred with any birth child I would have had. I do not think the vulnerabilities and gifts of my son have been solely determined by his genetic heritage. I have always believed that nurture trumps nature. If nature dominated and won out there would have been no advancement in human history, which of course there was. Human creativity triumphs.
While I know that that is an uncommon view here on CD, I believe it still. I believe my son has vulnerabilities linked to my being a single, working parent, without family support. I believe his vulnerabilities have as much or more to do with the orphanage, as with his heredity and drug exposure.
I think it is still out to the jury, what he and any one of us will attain and achieve in the rest of the time that each of us has left. I believe that still, there is choice involved, and opportunity. That magical mixture of how we choose to respond to our environment at any given moment.
What has changed for me is the lessening of fear, and the growing of hope. For my son and for myself. I attribute this almost entirely to these past couple of years, my grieving for my mother and my life and our and my work here on FOO and CD.
I feel entirely more sure-footed and confident than when I began, and indeed, that at any other time in my life that I can remember. I had confidence before, I had fearlessness, maybe, but I cannot remember feeling sure-footed. I believe this has to do with a self-knowledge that I have gained, and a sense of personal acceptance and acceptance of what it is to be a parent, and a human being. This is what has changed.
I attribute this one hundred percent to the courage and generosity of the parents here to tell the truth about their lives, themselves, their hopes, fears and dreams. And to allow me to do the same. This allowed me to make sense of things, playing with a full deck. Because every one of you showed your cards, and play a honest and fair game.
Thank you. I have said it before a hundred times. I will never be able to put into words the depth of my gratitude.
Thank you.
COPA
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Copa, your son does not share your motivation or drive. It could be that he cant succeed that way.
Autistic traits can appear to go away but if he ever had autism at all, he still does. He has just figured out to hide it better as did sonic.
He is the dna of strangers.
I get along well with my adopted kids too, but they have different strengths from me. Absolutely dna matters. It is good when we are compatible with our adopted kids, but it is true that they tend to be more like their birthparents than us. Ask anyone who met their childs bio. Parents.
Your son is either limited by in utero drug exposure, which is huge, or resistant to work. And that is not like you. You are kindhearted,vhard working and put your intelligence to good use.
Anyhow, just saying you are different. Of course many birth children dont share our values either. But in my opinion the adoption part is huge.
Jmo with love
Autistic traits can appear to go away but if he ever had autism at all, he still does. He has just figured out to hide it better as did sonic.
He is the dna of strangers.
I get along well with my adopted kids too, but they have different strengths from me. Absolutely dna matters. It is good when we are compatible with our adopted kids, but it is true that they tend to be more like their birthparents than us. Ask anyone who met their childs bio. Parents.
Your son is either limited by in utero drug exposure, which is huge, or resistant to work. And that is not like you. You are kindhearted,vhard working and put your intelligence to good use.
Anyhow, just saying you are different. Of course many birth children dont share our values either. But in my opinion the adoption part is huge.
Jmo with love
Feeling Sad
Well-Known Member
Wow, rough day at work, but this is what I think.
First of all, by having SSI, some young adults do not have as much drive or incentive to finish college or find a good-paying career. They receive money each month already.
Secondly, SSI is set up to decrease if the person gets a part time job. They give you less because they figure that you have income. The more you earn, the less you receive.
Thirdly, you cannot have over a certain amount in the bank at a given time. If you have over the amount, then they also give you less each month.
Not great incentive. In fact, the opposite usually occurs. They do not work or work very sporadically.
Yes, he needs the help and deserves the SSI payment, but he does not feel the same urgency that you might feel about his future goals.
Often you receive enough to pay for a room in a house, with some left over for food, some utilities, and incidentals. One usually does not receive enough to rent a studio or a 1 room apartment. The owner also needs to see proof that you have a stable job or income that will permit you to be able to pay the monthly rent on time. In addition, they often want references from places that you have rented previously.
No, you should not rent him an apartment or share a lease by putting your name on it, as well. Besides being responsible for the rent, even if he skipped, but for any damages incurred. Also, to get the best monthly rate, you have to sign up for 1 or 2 years. Don't do it.
I could not do it because my son was delusional and, I have been told by many therapists , could have hurt or even killed someone at a rented apartment or room. He could have a delusion about someone and his voices could have commanded him to hurt them.
My brother's exgirlfriend had her door at a fancy gated apartment in Brentwood chopped down by an axe. Luckily, she was gone. The young man who lived above her had schitzophrenic delusions that she was his exgirlfriend. He had pictures of her all over his wall. His father, qn attorney, had leased it out for him. Copa, this scenario does not apply to your son.
Your son could damage property or let someone else live there who could cause damage. He might not keep it up properly. You would be responsible.
Also, his conspiracy theories could prevent him from reaching his career goals. At the very least, they could overshadow true goals that he needs to attend to to get a job.
I have read a lot of studies on marijuana and delusions, specifically schitzophrenia. A large percentage of schizophrenics smoke marijuana. They do not know if it perhaps brings on delusions or paranoia. Or, that you want it once you start prenomal schitzophrenia. It seems to exacerbate the paranoia. Chicken... or the egg concept.
When my son ran off 10 years ago to sleep in his car up North for a year, he was on marijuana. He was smoking it for awhile, unbeknownst to me. I found it in his room after he had fled. I am just throwing this out there.
I have seen some parents agree to match any earnings from a job. I do not know how that would work with SSI and I do not know how you could monitor its proper use or perhaps direct payment for rent. It would make you too involved and responsible. He also could still expect the money even after he quits hIs job or is fired. Forget that idea, entirely.
They have low rent housing out there with long wait lines. Does your son agree that he has a disability or mental health issue? If not, he might not apply.
Copa, you are doing everything right. He knows that you love him and want him to be the best that he can be in life. You are giving him strong guidelines and expectations. You are showing him respect.
First of all, by having SSI, some young adults do not have as much drive or incentive to finish college or find a good-paying career. They receive money each month already.
Secondly, SSI is set up to decrease if the person gets a part time job. They give you less because they figure that you have income. The more you earn, the less you receive.
Thirdly, you cannot have over a certain amount in the bank at a given time. If you have over the amount, then they also give you less each month.
Not great incentive. In fact, the opposite usually occurs. They do not work or work very sporadically.
Yes, he needs the help and deserves the SSI payment, but he does not feel the same urgency that you might feel about his future goals.
Often you receive enough to pay for a room in a house, with some left over for food, some utilities, and incidentals. One usually does not receive enough to rent a studio or a 1 room apartment. The owner also needs to see proof that you have a stable job or income that will permit you to be able to pay the monthly rent on time. In addition, they often want references from places that you have rented previously.
No, you should not rent him an apartment or share a lease by putting your name on it, as well. Besides being responsible for the rent, even if he skipped, but for any damages incurred. Also, to get the best monthly rate, you have to sign up for 1 or 2 years. Don't do it.
I could not do it because my son was delusional and, I have been told by many therapists , could have hurt or even killed someone at a rented apartment or room. He could have a delusion about someone and his voices could have commanded him to hurt them.
My brother's exgirlfriend had her door at a fancy gated apartment in Brentwood chopped down by an axe. Luckily, she was gone. The young man who lived above her had schitzophrenic delusions that she was his exgirlfriend. He had pictures of her all over his wall. His father, qn attorney, had leased it out for him. Copa, this scenario does not apply to your son.
Your son could damage property or let someone else live there who could cause damage. He might not keep it up properly. You would be responsible.
Also, his conspiracy theories could prevent him from reaching his career goals. At the very least, they could overshadow true goals that he needs to attend to to get a job.
I have read a lot of studies on marijuana and delusions, specifically schitzophrenia. A large percentage of schizophrenics smoke marijuana. They do not know if it perhaps brings on delusions or paranoia. Or, that you want it once you start prenomal schitzophrenia. It seems to exacerbate the paranoia. Chicken... or the egg concept.
When my son ran off 10 years ago to sleep in his car up North for a year, he was on marijuana. He was smoking it for awhile, unbeknownst to me. I found it in his room after he had fled. I am just throwing this out there.
I have seen some parents agree to match any earnings from a job. I do not know how that would work with SSI and I do not know how you could monitor its proper use or perhaps direct payment for rent. It would make you too involved and responsible. He also could still expect the money even after he quits hIs job or is fired. Forget that idea, entirely.
They have low rent housing out there with long wait lines. Does your son agree that he has a disability or mental health issue? If not, he might not apply.
Copa, you are doing everything right. He knows that you love him and want him to be the best that he can be in life. You are giving him strong guidelines and expectations. You are showing him respect.
Hopeful97
Active Member
Copa,
I do not know if this will ne helpful, but take a look at www.nami.org is a great resource for anyone whose life is touched somehow by mental illness.
Hugs,
Hopeful
I do not know if this will ne helpful, but take a look at www.nami.org is a great resource for anyone whose life is touched somehow by mental illness.
Hugs,
Hopeful
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
He was never diagnosed with autism. He was brought to a pediatric neurologist because of a behavior, the neurologist said he did not have autism.
I feel very differently than do you. There are many birth parents who feel their children are nothing like them, to the point of rejecting them.
In my own case I am completely different from my sibling, and from my parents. There is only a physical resemblance to my mother and to a lesser degree to my father.
I do not dispute that genes determine physiogamy. I do not dispute that intelligence is partially genetically determined but there are other factors as well.
I absolutely disagree. If you were to meet me and my son, you would see a convergence in mannerisms, interests and personality. I would even say values. He is sociable like I am. His aptitudes are virtually equal.
We differ somewhat in appearance *he resembles to some extent my father, and greatly in motivation, in drive.
But I have said before that my drive I attribute to a sense of deficiency and inadequacy. Had I been a happy person or a more secure one, I would most likely have been complacent.
That is not to say that I am a happy camper that my son does not try harder. He may still. Who knows?
No. Only if it means that he can keep collecting the money. He thinks his conspiracies are rational. He thinks his self-consciousness about balding is rational. He does recognize he is depressed, but relates this entirely to his concern about his (very handsome) appearance.
Thank you very much for the NAMI referral.
COPA
Feeling Sad
Well-Known Member
Copa, I feel that one's environment and upbringing plays a very large role. Yes, DNA is a component, but I feel, to a lesser degree. People are always going well beyond their capabilities or limitations.
You learn a lot from your parents. My youngest son is exactly like me in personality. We both are out-going and very talkative. My middle-born son is more reserved, but is exactly like me in arguing topics and trying to help others. My eldest was just very smart with a quick dry wit and so very kind.
They all have the same DNA and parent...but they are all so different in all ways.
You learn a lot from your parents. My youngest son is exactly like me in personality. We both are out-going and very talkative. My middle-born son is more reserved, but is exactly like me in arguing topics and trying to help others. My eldest was just very smart with a quick dry wit and so very kind.
They all have the same DNA and parent...but they are all so different in all ways.
