Really struggling right now

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Beta, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    I am relieved. I come here as a sanctuary. I never talked much about Kay to others. I even tried to minimize her behavior in Al Anon and let the others talk.

    It is scary how much our problem children are alike. There is always that one important, puzzling similarity of not working at a fruitful job, if at all. Most are bright, but wont work. I find that their oddest commonality.

    Disabled people often try hard to find work. There are organizations around us that place disabled adults in community jobs. Our kids are not worse off than those with, say, Downs Syndrome, even if some have anxiety/depression. A lot of working people do. I see people in wheelchairs and blind working. I am sure Kay can work somewhere. She doesn't want to. And this is the main problem it seems with most of our kids. They would be much happier with the world if they supported themselves. Depending on us at such advanced ages is what causes the rest of their childish traits in my opinion. It all starts with not wanting to work.

    Maybe Psychiatry needs a new diagnosis for adults who wont grow up. Peter Pan Syndrome?
  2. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I love this! Thank you soooooo much! ♥️
  3. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    I was planning on going to my sister's house next weekend. As I was talking to my husband last night, I received some text messages from Josh, from his "burner phone" that had not been blocked. He threatened to cause trouble if I come. I am postponing my trip, tenatively until the first weekend in October. I don't want to be in a dangerous situation, but more importantly, I don't want to put my sister and brother-in-law in a dangerous situation. I'm hoping that I can go later and go without his knowing that I'm even there, but we will see what happens. I have cautioned my sister to be very careful. She is very aware and understanding of that, but it still worries me. I reiterated to her last night to do whatever they need to do to be safe. I feel like I have dropped this "bomb" in their laps, and I really regret it. I honestly thought that if the stress of his living situation, the poor eating habits, etc. were relieved, and if he were around people who cared about him, that he might stabilize just enough to function, but I was wrong. Without treatment and therapy, he is not going to get better. I fully anticipate that he will end up in jail or prison at some point. When you can't work, you have to find some way of surviving and that usually means doing something illegal.

    I have finally come to the realization that there is no changing Josh. Nothing I say or do is going to change him because he does not want to change. He blames us completely for his situation and insists that we "need to make it right" by giving him money, which of course, is ridiculous. He also has no interest in having a relationship with us, with them or anybody else. She told me she has definitely observed a manic/depressive cycling in him, which helps to further strengthen our belief that he is Bipolar.

    I love him. I despise the person he has become though. The mental illness and drugs are definitely a cause, but I also believe that, even with those things, he has chosen to act in the evil way he has.
  4. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    By the way, I finally spoke to the CIT guy yesterday. He said the type of text messages Josh has been sending would be "verbal harassment" which is a misdemeanor. He did give me the name and number of the county attorney where my sister lives to get some information about involuntary hold. I also have a crisis number from the NAMI chapter. I think I might call them today. I've re-read through all of your posts. This is really scaring me now.
  5. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    This is a hard pill to swallow isn't it? My sons, especially the older son is exactly like this. I am glad you are putting off your trip until October. Maybe things will have improved a bit by then. One can only hope.

    Of course, you love him despite what he's become. We all do. We just dislike how mental illness, drugs etc. have destroyed their lives. It was the same thing with my ex of 30 yrs. who destroyed all we had with alcoholism. I don't blame him. I hate the disease and my heart aches that he could never get sober for himself. We mourn for that. It's normal and ok.

    For some reason, this is the journey God has for me. If I embrace it similar to child birth pains and breath, relax and let life takes its course the pain will lessen. If I hold on tight and try to force things to be as I wish, it just creates more anxiety, sorrow and pain within me. The pain will then get all jammed up and one way or the other I will still have to work it out. No matter what, we have to go "through" these things to come out the other side. We can try to go around, above or beside them (which I had been doing for a very long time) but then they will still be there. Once we realize this and accept it, the better. Then we can begin to learn and heal rather than stay in a place if ignorance, doubt, anger, denial and darkness.

    I try to think of this similar to my alcoholic ex. He unfortunately, never dealt with some childhood abuse that caused an abundance of issues for him throughout his life. He chose to bury his feelings by numbing with alcohol and then then alcohol was his addiction that then physically deprived him of healthy relationships and a healthy body and mind. There will always be a trade off if we do not confront, work through, heal and become enlightened about our problems.
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  6. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet


    I don't think we ever stop loving our children no matter what they become or how they treat us. However that doesn't mean we cannot protect ourselves in any way that we can because we matter too.

    I think you were looking for a way to make him better like all of us do and thought as you said that him being with loving family and having his needs met don't matter. If it did, most of us would not be here. Everything would be hunky dory!

    It is good that you are coming to realizations about what you do and do not have control over. We have control over ourselves and that is about it. We can control how we let the behavior of others affect us.

    I am glad that you have postponed your visit for now.
  7. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member to your sister and brother in law in an out of the way small restaurant, not at her house. There is no need to talk to them there. Josh doesn't need to know you all spoke about him. You can keep it safe. Please do!

    God bless you.
  8. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    I sent my sister some of the text messages I shared the other day, as well as what he sent me last night. They want him to leave by September 24, the day they are leaving town. In order not to escalate him, they are going to tell him that my brother-in-law's mom is coming for an extended visit and they need the room. This is making me very anxious.
  9. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet


    Maybe if he gets in trouble with the law that will help project him to where he needs to be to get some help. Not that any of us want our children to be in trouble with the law but I think it helps us to realize (and maybe even them too) that they cannot live the way they live in society. Society has rules and even if they are able to run all over us, they are not able to get away with it in the "real world".

    I think of my good friend that just lost her son to a heroin overdose a month ago. He was able to work delivering pizza to support his habit while he lived with her. He never stole a dollar from her. She left her purse out every night. On another note, he never was able to pay his car payment so she continued to do that although she could not afford it, eventually stopped doing it, and now her credit is ruined because she cosigned. She was not able to deal with his addiction so did nothing for a long time and let him continue to use in her home.

    Now my son, who had a pill addiction, DID steal from us. He did break into our safe, steal a lot of money, sold his coin collection, and many things that he pawned that we had bought for him, to support his habit. He did get into trouble with the law many times. But since I nor anyone in my family had ever done anything illegal, this was eye opening for me (and very scary, shameful and disturbing to name a few). It made it all more serious. We couldn't ignore it any longer.

    So I'm glad my son got into legal trouble. I think that I needed that to help me take some action.

    Let nature take its course.
  10. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Are you protected? Do you have an alarm system in your house? I am more afraid he will come after you than your sisters family, but they need protection too. Please be careful.
  11. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    Busy--I live in another state and not anywhere close to where he is, and he doesn't have the means to get to where I am.
    RN--I'm at the point where I'm praying that God will do whatever He has to do in Josh's life, including legal intervention. Whatever intervention might occur, it's going to have to be drastic to have any hope of doing anything.
  12. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    So is your sister asking him to leave her home based on the threats to you? Not that I think that is a bad idea. I would be very uncomfortable if I were her!
  13. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    No, he doesn't know that I shared those texts with her. Her husband is going to talk to him and basically tell him a lie--that his mother is coming to stay for an extended visit and will need to stay in his room and he will need to go ahead and move out. I think they should probably wait a day or two, just to make sure it doesn't create any suspicion in his mind that the texts he sent me and the sudden news of this imaginary visit are connected.
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Beta. I think you are doing the right thing and so is your sister. At the same time I am worried about the next month. Is there a way to involve some sort of outside agency? Now might be the time for an intervention by qualified professionals. This way Josh can transition to somewhere he is safe, gets treatment, and you guys don't have to worry alone about how exactly you will get him out, and what he will do in the process.
  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This is a possibility (or probability) but by no means a certainty. (There is a woman who posts here whose son is Paranoid Schizophrenic. He has been living on the street in his car 4 years or more. She is able to monitor him through his bank account. So far, no jail or prison.)

    Josh is mentally ill. Extended treatment, a secure place to live, and productive work, could would help him. The important thing now is that he come in contact with resources that can help stabilize him. Jail and prison offer this. But a professional intervention too could get him there.

    There are resources in the community, too. Josh is thinking like a crazed animal in the wild. Now he sees the trap closing in on him. This does not make him "bad." He has the potential to be dangerous now, yes.

    When they are so young, in particular, I don't think we are helped by writing off our kids, even in the short term. It was tempting for me. But when I tried to I vacillated and ended up in even greater pain. We don't have to do that, in order to control our own behavior. There are more than two speeds. Not only enmeshment and rejection. We can recognize that there is nothing that we can do right now to help and support them directly. But that does not mean that they cannot be helped by others, by treatment, by time. It's just that Josh cannot feel or understand your help right now, because he is not in a frame of mind to understand. He may never be. But this could change, too. Just not by your efforts and sacrifice.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  16. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    When they are so young, in particular, I don't think we are helped by writing off our kids, even in the short term. It was tempting for me. But when I tried to I vacillated and ended up in even greater pain. We don't have to do that, in order to control our own behavior. There are more than two speeds. Not only enmeshment and rejection.[/QUOTE]

    Copa, can you elaborate on this quote a little? I guess I feel confused a bit. I'm wondering if I've made the right decision now with my two sons to detach from their abusive, non caring, irresponsible ways. The younger one definately has ADHD and PTSD and the older is undiagnosed but his verbal abuse at the drop of a dime is not normal. Neither is their lack of desire to work, to have independence and their own apartments and pay their own bills etc. I've tried to help them over the years just as all of us mothers here have likely done but when they don't accept help and continue their behaviors which don't move them forward in life. What can we do?

    Are you suggesting that detaching "with love" and/or whatever it takes initially to protect ourselves is not something you would advise in your experience or am I misunderstanding?
  17. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm. This is something we think about too. Our daughter isnt normal, but does that mean we should take
  18. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    We think about this too. We did not stop our enabling until Kay was 30 and it was very slow. This long stint of enabling is because we know she isn't logical. But she IS getting older and is big and strong and young and scary sometimes, especially if we are near her and will not give her money.

    We can't risk ourselves for her, mentally ill or not. Others love us, and all of you too, and we must stay safe for them. Also, I think of "so young" as college age. Any older and most kids are moving on in life. Over 30....they may never get the help they need if we don't detach so that they can see they need help. I feel that not detaching gives them no hope at all. Even with detaching, we hold little hope out for Kay.

    Anxious to see other answers and viewpoints.
  19. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    I'm just not optimistic that, were we to attempt to have him committed, that it would be granted first of all, and even if it were, that holding him for 72 hours would do anything more than make him angrier and more paranoid.
  20. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    I might also add my need to detach from the 26 yr. old and not allow him to live with me is because I don't chose to live with the police at my home every other day for one issue or another. I don't choose to endure his MJ smoking like it's his job and telling me it's just a plant. I don't choose to put myself in all those horrible scenarios which take away my sanity because he has absolutely no intention of changing his ways.

    I have tried to help YS since he was 16 yrs. old and began having trouble with the law. I think that once you have exhausted all avenues and you see that the other is not doing anything or willing to accept your guidance either due to laziness, severe anxiety, mental illness and inability to carry anything out to the end.

    I also had him held at a hospital overnight in January, where they said they were going to evaluate him. They nearly attacked him to sedate him with 6 police officers surrounding him. After all was said and done all it got me was a flimsy analysis that he appeared fine. He was released so drugged up the next day that he could barely walk out of the hospital and I had to pay for him to stay in a hotel for two days while the sedation wore off. All it got me was a very very angry son who was furious that I would have him evaluated and didn't speak to me for months.