holding him for 72 hours would do anything more than make him angrier and more paranoid.
This can be extended. First, for 3 days more, then for 2 weeks, and that too can be extended, once he is in the hospital. He could fight it, but he would have to demonstrate that he is no longer a danger to self, others, or gravely disabled. Second. You are right. No one thing is going to bring about a "cured" state, or even a "stabilized" state. This may well take years. And many interventions.
There is maybe a 5 percent chance, let's say, that a hospitalization achieves your wildest dreams. But short of that, there are good and necessary things that can occur by bringing his condition to the attention of the authorities. Contact with professionals brings him into the "system." He begins to get diagnoses. It establishes a history. (For example, that might make it harder for him to get a gun. Or with a diagnosis he could get SSI eventually). This encounter, even 3 days, plants a seed. Most importantly he needs to be curbed. He needs to run up against something, a societal boundary. What he is saying, doing, how he is acting is outside of social norms, of society itself.
You know those speed bumps in the street? If somebody is going 100 miles an hour these bumps will not stop that car. But it will slow the car down. Sometimes things need to happen because somebody is doing the wrong thing. The speed bumps may not stop the 100 mile car, but does that mean they are useless and wrong?
When they are so young, in particular, I don't think we are helped by writing off our kids, even in the short term. It was tempting for me. But when I tried to I vacillated and ended up in even greater pain. We don't have to do that, in order to control our own behavior. There are more than two speeds. Not only enmeshment and rejection
My problem was that I did not do healthy boundaries and detachment. And then when I got fed up? I overreacted. I cut him off. I did not do loving detachment.
I was not talking here about the healthy process of detachment. I'm talking about reacting. And thinking and feeling that our children may be bad seeds, because they are acting badly. When their bad behavior is partly or wholly related to illness. I still think it's necessary for Beta to detach from her son. But I don't think it's because he can't be help or because he doesn't want to live a good life. I think it's because he is likely suffering and ill. But I will speak for myself here. My son was likely ill. And he was intolerable for me to be around. But that was because I did not do what you are doing JP. I did not practice loving detachment. I did not know how. And there are those among us,who MUST completely disengage from their adult children, because their children are so damaging and dangerous to them. I'm not talking about that either.
The distinction I was trying to make is that while EVERYBODY must be protected from Josh who is on a rampage and potentially dangerous, there are identifiable reasons why this is so, why he may be going off the deep end. That these things can over time be treated. But that's not saying BETA necessarily has a direct role right now. To me, the actions of this family are judicious and wise. But I do not necessarily think that Josh is in control of his faculties. I don't necessarily believe that right now he's playing with a full deck. I do not necessarily believe that his thinking is rational. But what he is expressing to his Mother does not necessarily come from the deepest part of him. 90 percent of his behavior might be fueled by mental illness and drugs. I do not necessarily believe Josh is un-savable. In all likelihood he is not doing this because he is bad or evil. In all likelihood he is ill. Either ill from mental illness or drugs. Or both.
What I am trying to say is that mothers like myself and Beta have room here, to step back and to have hope.
I'm wondering if I've made the right decision now with my two sons to detach from their abusive, non caring, irresponsible ways.
JP. I support what you are doing with your sons. You are setting healthy boundaries. And your sons seem to be stepping up. I am sorry that what I wrote caused you to second guess yourself and to rethink what you are doing, which seems to be wonderful, and working.
I am the one who has had only two speeds. I was speaking about myself. I react very emotionally to my son's behavior. I erupt. And I overreact. Part of this, historically, is because I was too involved in his business. I was enmeshed. I tried to control him. I did not have adequate boundaries. My own center was in him. I felt that I could not live if he was ill or troubled or in danger. That was speed 1.
Speed 2 was "get out of here." Not wanting to see or speak to him. Contemplating restraining orders, getting orders of trespass. Involving the police. Not wanting to talk to him. (Part of it was him too. He was impossible.)
But my son did not ever threaten me; and only one time did he hurt me, which was an accident many years ago. My son was hostile and difficult and unreachable but he did not present a physical danger. In Beta's case she has no choice but to distance herself completely from her son, as she is doing. And to protect her family by supporting them to do the same. What she is doing is responsible and correct and brave. But there is hope. That's what I want to say. There is still love there. And it's okay to feel it.
Needing to make distance and strong boundaries does not necessarily mean that this child's conduct and being will be forever and irremediably problematic, that it speaks to something irrevocably broken about him and about his parents' potential to one day have a relationship with him. We can love our children, and think lovingly about them, and have hope for them, at the same time we strive to make ourselves safe. Physically safe and emotionally safe, too..That is what was hard for me to hold onto. That's what I meant by having more than 2 speeds. We can have a speed that is separate, and safe, but believing in their potential to be the people we know they were.That is all I am saying.
Are you suggesting that detaching "with love" and/or whatever it takes initially to protect ourselves is not something you would advise in your experience or am I misunderstanding?
I am absolutely saying that I think detaching with love is the correct thing to do, to the extent necessary. But I am also saying that I have overreacted. That I used detachment more in the light of "out of sight out of mind." There have been times I had to push love and hope underground. That was not necessary (although I forgive myself for it.)
