the ball is in his court??

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Copabanana, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Re his lie and your reaction. We are only human. I very frequently give my solem oppositional opinion is situations involving my son. I am a a very reactive person and I am practicing pausing before I react. It does not always work.
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    lbl. i am reactive too. duh.
  3. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    don't you just love this civil liberties rationale to not spend money to save what are essentially children?
  4. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I explain to my son that the system does not care. He has to be the one who cares.
  5. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    It is always about if they care. Nobody can force them to quit at any age, even if they were forced into a year of rehab. Rehab never got one person to quit. THEY decide to do the hard work to quit in rehab and after they get out. Or not. No system makes them quit. The person has to want to quit. And, no, they don't care about our feelings. Our angst doesn't get them to quit. We are a non factor unless we have something they really want and then it is usually them putting on a good act. Addicts are extremely selfish. We can tell them 24/7 how their lifestyle hurts us but they may feel bad for a second...maybe...but that is not a motivation for them to quit.

    Although it is hard for us, as parents, to have few options where to put our using kids when we don't want them home or homeless, there is still nothing on the planet that will help them quit except themselves.

    So sad, but it is true.
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  6. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Its the same with prison. Lets be realistic because if prison worked every time, would we really be facing the overcrowding issues we have right now? The person MUST want it no matter what it is. Staying clean, staying out of prison, quitting smoking, losing weight, staying out of bad relationships...its all up to the individual. Nothing anyone else can do will influence them unless they allow it.
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  7. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I want to say hi and give a short update. But first, I am thinking of your mother new leaf and sending prayers.

    This has been the longest 3 weeks I can remember. My son is still in the sober living house. Which means he must be sober.

    He was not talking to me and not reachable. Phone disconnected. I did not know his address. I was inconsolable. Because see. I had set a boundary. And believed he would not forgive me. Ever. Irrational. Yes.

    A few days ago I saw him. He looked horrible. Clean. But haggard in the face. Looked in agony. We talked a few minutes. He was depressed. Despairing. Almost broken. no swagger, no arogance at all. But he likes the sober living house. There are 10 men. He seems to care about them. He was not mad at me. Accepting of love.

    I remembered after, that he must be feeling all of the feelings that he had been drugging away for 6 years and that I need to be able to tolerate this. That it is not about me.

    I ran into him again this morning. He looked better. Stronger. More upbeat. A little bit. Again, he accepted and gave love. A qualitative shift from a few weeks ago. From before. Softer. But more spunk today.

    Nothing adversarial in him.

    I am trying hard to not get ahead of myself. I am hoping each one of you is well. I think of you a lot.
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  8. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much for your prayers Copa. Mom is feeling a bit better, and will see her infectious disease specialist to find out and decide on antibiotic therapy.
    I have been thinking of you and wondering how you were doing. I have missed you.
    It is hard to see our loved ones struggle, look rough around the edges, but what you see in your son seems to be a turning about the corner. I am glad for him, Copa, and you.
    I do so hope and pray that he will persevere and find his way.
    Copa I am happy you checked in. Hang in there warrior sister.
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  9. so ready to live

    so ready to live Active Member

    Copa. So good to hear from you again.
    This still sounds like progress for both of you and thank you for sharing, I really needed to hear this today. I so need to remember that sad, lonely, haggard also can be formative to live through...
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  10. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I am glad you are seeing the good in this moment with him. I am struggling to stay in that mindset. After all, my clear disapproval, disgust, pain and anger never changed anything.

    And if we are always holding our breath and our noses, waiting for them to realize the wasted years, we are also not breathing.

    I’m glad he is connecting with the residents. I think they gather moss in isolation.
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  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Thank you each of you. New leaf. You sound wistful. Thank you for your supportive words.

    I read your post to feeling about the dreadful 38 minutes...was it...of horror. It's hard to even type the enter into the reality that little bit...of what nobody should endure even in imagination. I am sorry.

    So hit the staying present to his pain...which has been what I have been unable to do, or unwilling. Thank you for your vote of confidence.

    Sam. Speaking of breathing...For the past few days I have been binge listening to the Buddhist teacher whose name autocorrect will not permit me to type. (He lives in plum village in france.)The hardest to listen to is staying present, to suffering. My son's and my own too.

    I am thinking too of what is called gevurah...which I am learning is setting a boundary, among other things, in kabbalah. I guess why I fell apart is that setting a boundary felt like killing myself, killing who I love...when it was really standing up for him and asserting my love. And in this way modeling to him that I had faith, when in reality I did not but had to build it by whistling in the cold wind.

    If this was easy we wouldn't be here.

    Thank you.
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  12. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    You sound good Copa. What a very difficult journey you have been on.

    Not nearly as intense...but something you said reminded me of this little lesson for me. Our daughter is extremely heavy now. She appears unkept. She bathes almost daily, so this is good. But her overall appearance is most peculiar. When in public with her, it’s not unusual for people to stare. She is unaware of this. There are times I first see her and it’s hard not to gasp. She can look like a homeless person, yet she thinks she looks good. I might be seeing her soon and take her out for a meal. I know that I can’t say anything, or make any judgments, or concern myself about any of this. Love her unconditionally as this particular issue is not significant at all. Silly in comparison, but it does make me sad.

    If you can think of a creative way to write the Buddhist teachr’s Name can you do that? Maybe backwards?
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Thich.nhat.hahn 3 names. Hi nomad. Thank you.

    About your daughter is sad. for her. For you. But I think it illustrates perfectly what our best road is...I mean to say our highest road...which is so so hard.

    My son's appearance is improved along with his living conditions and lifestyle. He is naturally concerned with hygiene. That is his default. But this new iteration which is agony in his face is hard.

    You said something. And Sam another. That fit together for me. Us as bearers of their conditions. Our (misguided sense that we hold the fort with our judgements, disapproval. When the whole deal is surrender.)

    My suffering did not one positive thing. I see that now.

    PS nomad. How did your holiday party go? What did you serve?
  14. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I suppose I am a bit wistful. I have overreached myself I’m afraid with coaching and tearing through my house. At this juncture, I feel I don’t have enough time to finish what I started. It can be a bit overwhelming, but I have decided that I just need to keep chipping away at things until completion. Maybe it is a way to keep my mind off of my two? Or, maybe, subconsciously I am creating my own chaos to deal with....... to replace what was, and is, at times.

    It was the strangest thing. Thinking that any moment a missile would blast us to oblivion. Then thinking it couldn’t be real. I prayed, a lot. Got in touch with my brother who reassured me he could not find anything on the internet that was telling of an attack, which made him doubt the alarm. I was not near any of my kids at the time and I so wished I was. It was a terrible moment, but also a great lesson to appreciate each breath. I find it curious that Japan had a similar false alarm the Tuesday after.
    Life is a series of adjustments.Sigh.
    I read a bit about Kabbalah, I confess, had no notion of it. It is very, very deep.
    My quote machine is not working.
    “Us as bearers of their conditions”
    I think of Eckhart Tolle, who was deeply depressed and writes of suddenly receiving a “state of bliss”, sitting on a bench all day, observing people for two years. He was before then studying for his doctorate. What did his family think of this?
    Did they think at the time he would be where he is now?
    I guess it all boils down to one simple thing, we all have our own journey and life’s lessons to learn.
    Yes, our suffering does not one positive thing.
    I am thinking on your studies, boundaries. Rain has popped by with her “new boyfriend”. Cleaned out his truck, left rubbish and piles of laundry. Comes over when I am not home. Helps herself to things. Hoku and son are quite upset. I am, and then I am not. For sure, it is a strain on my budget. I don’t want her to take advantage of me, I want her to be respectful of our home.
    Maybe one day I will be able to speak with her. I suppose the universe will arrange it when it is time.
    Copa, you sound strong and resolved to let go. It is a good thing. It does not mean we do not love them. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t be here, finding bits of ourselves and our situations in others stories.
    Letting go is not a straight line, like life. We live, we learn. All of us.
    I am glad your son has found a place.
    That is what we all desire, to figure out our place in this world.
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  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    New leaf. I did not know about Japan. Fishy. I fear sometimes our government does not tell us the whole story. That worries me.

    Regarding storming thru the house. I bought a book: the life changing magic of tidying up. By Marie kondo.

    She is from Japan. And her ideas I think are based on the Shinto religion. She urges us to look at each object in our homes in terms of their giving us joy and discarding what does not. She says that we become happier with space. And the process of deciding generalizes to our whole lives.

    Sounds good. But even reading more than a couple of paragraphs makes me anxious.

    I don't know what I think about rain stopping by the house.
  16. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    At the risk of sounding crazy, or one of those conspiracy theorists, I wouldn’t put it past them covering up a hack. Public knowledge of it would cause more panic than an “employee’s mistake”. The Japan incident is a touch too coincidental for my old senses. I have felt for a long time that government lets us know just what they want us to.

    My problem is I am a butterfly cleaner. Flitting from one project to the next and before I know it, the whole house is in disarray. I get ahead of myself. You know, lists are for checking off one at a time, not delving into 1/4 here and then moving to another, and another. (I chide myself). Slowly the tides will turn and I will get it under control.

    I know what you mean. I have chucked stuff or donated and then looked for it months after, then I remember and regret.I need to take inventory and write notes to self. It is annoying to get rid of something then need it later. Stuff. Too much stuff. I might be able to be a border line minimalist for awhile but I think I would be bored. There has to be a happy medium somewhere between this mess of mine and neat and orderly. I have read on the other hand that messy people are smart....:rolleyes: although it does cause me some anxiety when my house isn’t in order.
    Me too. I am glad she is alive, but honestly Copa, she doesn’t come to see us. No conversation to speak of. Street looking boyfriend. He is somewhat clean but has what Rain refers to as “park rot”, swollen legs and sores. Ugh. Who is this guy she brings over? Her choice in men has never been good. She is not of right mind. As far as I know, still using meth. It is an uncomfortable feeling that she is popping in as she pleases. Son is angry about it and Hoku is here with her baby. We are without defenses if something goes awry, which is entirely possible considering her history and the dynamics. Then there is the question of retaliation if she is spoken to. What a terrible thing to mistrust ones own adult daughter. On drugs, there is no telling what could occur. I will say after thinking over this and writing here, truthfully, I hate this whole situation. I don’t often use the word hate, but find it appropriate in this case.
    Maybe that is what makes me wistful when I write to those who are seeing some change in their beloveds. I do so wish it for my two, but after all of these years, it seems a far off dream.
    Not giving up on them finding their potential, but striving to find mine, despite setbacks and whatever the future holds for any of my kids.
    Life is a puzzling thing at times. I guess it is really about our attitude towards circumstances, how we see our way through.
    I will tell you again how nice it is to “see” you, Copa. Your presence is a comfort.
    Have a wonderful Sunday.
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  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    That is troubling and heartbreaking when we fear setting boundaries (or fear the effect of those we set) because we fear it could or will become worse including retaliation. Like I feared my son would not love me...because I did not want him here in my house. Or because I said anything except yes.

    I will get internet so I do not have to use cell. It is onerous to type and post this way.

    Thank you new leaf. How are the rest of you? All of you have been such rocks. Thank you.
  18. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Had a lot of personal stressors at the time of holiday party and was trying to help daughter in law who was eight months pregnant. New grandson came last week!!!! :)

    Sooo, I changed my mind re holiday party and instead had a small dinner party with a few friends and my adult children (not Difficult Child) and ordered most of the food...chicken, vegetables etc. I made salad and mashed potatoes. I bought fancy gelatos in nine flavors and had all the fixings and that went well.

    Boundaries definitely help with our Difficult Child. But they are often a struggle to implement. We must be steadfast. Knowing how vital they are for improvement helps.

  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Your intimate party sounds wonderful nomad. I love everything you served. nine gelatos! How many guests did you have?

    Congratulations and blessings for the new baby.
  20. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    It ended up being tiny. Four guests plus grandson . A couple I invited (old friends) cancelled last minute due to very unexpected health issue

    Great memory.

    Did I post this? I may have posted twice. Something strange happened.