Update.... erratic behaviours

[RN0441]

Yes yes that is my son's drug of choice.

I wish I had NEVER HEARD of it!!!

My son has been unsuccessful at beating the addiction after YEARS of treatment. There is no excuse to abuse that drug period and anyone that has an addictive personality should not use it at all.

He's still in the rabbit hole Colleen.

They try to work and or go to school and it just doesn't work. They cannot be successful until they deal with the addiction. If I've said that to my son once I've said it a million times. They think if they are attempting to do any of that, then they are ok. Huh??

Yes your younger son needs to have a peaceful home. You cannot throw three lives away to save one. But then you have to wait until your older son is "ready". What a bunch of ! We're waiting too! I definitely would not let him move back because then what? You work all day and deal with this nightly?

 

[Littleboylost]

Yes your younger son needs to have a peaceful home. You cannot throw three lives away to save one. But then you have to wait until your older son is "ready". What a bunch of ! We're waiting too! I definitely would not let him move back because then what? You work all day and deal with this nightly?

We are in the same boat. Waiting, and the inept system with their assessments and heel dragging are beyond frustrating. I want to just give up. I want my son out and I want sanity back.
The stress is unbearable.

 

[pasajes4]

He was looking for his car keys. Just my 2 cents.....he should not have access to your home period. Your younger son says he fine. I hope so. One of our members has a younger brother of a Difficult Child who almost ended his life because of his older brothers shenanigans.

I realize that this post is comng off a tad harsh. Addiction is harsh. He is a drug addict period. A kid glove approach will not help him. Half buying into his excuses of can't sleep...looking for art supplies will not work. Any buying of his excuses on any level. any money given, allowing him access to your home is only going to fuel his addiction.

 

[ColleenB]

I know. And I agree.

I guess it's hard to convey what is actually happening in a post... but what we are seeing is different then when he was using actively.

It looks more like Bi polar disorder. Reading the description of type 2 bipolar is like a description of him.

We took the car and he doesn't have access. There was money he didn't take when looking through the drawers. He has been talking about his art school non stop since Monday and says he is "happy" .... in his mind he is, but what we are seeing is a mania like state. He is now MIA and we can't find him. He has no phone, no car.

I am worried since he has never done this. He checks in daily and he can't function without his phone, like most youth.

Something is different this time.

 

[GoingNorth]

Clozaril is the antipsychotic. It's very effective, but is a last ditch medication due its being very toxic to the bone marrow, requiring very frequent blood tests (weekly at first).
Clonazepam is Klonopin, a benzodiazepam that has some street value as a recreational drug, though is not as popular as alprazolam (Xanax) due to its differing effects.

 

[Kathy813]

Benzos (klonopin, xanax, etc) would have the effect that you described. My daughter would combine benzos and alcohol which is a very dangerous combination.

We blamed mental illness for many years but truthfully we don't see any of that now that my daughter is sober. She was diagnosed with various disorders by many professionals along the way including bipolar, Borderline (BPD), depression, ADHD, and anxiety but now she only takes an antidepressant and Vistaril for anxiety since it is non-addictive. Her anxiety is very manageable without the need for xanax. The bipolar and Borderline (BPD) symptoms completely disappeared when she got sober.

The interventionist that we used said that 80 - 90% of the mental illness symptoms go away with sobriety. It is virtually impossible to correctly diagnose a person when they are actively using/drinking.

I am not saying that your son isn't dealing with a mental illness . . . just that you can't be sure until you are dealing with the person inside . . . not the drugs.

In the meantime, your younger son is most definitely being affected by the chaos caused by your older son. My younger daughter was the perfect child (still is) but now many years later has started seeing a therapist. The therapist told her that she had been holding everything inside for 29 years and it would help her to spend some time in therapy to let it all out. She told her that it is a very typical reaction for younger children in dysfunctional families dealing with a troubled loved one.

~Kathy

 

[pasajes4]

My son was diagnosed as bipolar at age 8. Less than a year ago he was foud wandering the streets in a psychotic state. He was admitted to the psyc unit. It was not true mania. He was on pcp and a butt load of other crap.

Youe son admitted to using "sleeping" medication. He has a history of abusing drugs. he has not been clean and functional long enough to say that drugs are not a possible cause. Only people on this forum would think that it would be great if it is "only" the mental illness causing the mania. I know I would have been thrilled. Before he can be reliably diagnosed with bipolar or any other severe mental illness, he will have to be completly drug free including "sleep" medication. Until then you will have to consider possible/probable drug use.

I hope he surfaces in one piece. I am glad that he did not take the money and that he does not have access to the car.

 

[BusynMember]

Users move onto other drugs for experimentation. My daughter took speed during the day, which made her seem manic, and downers at night so she could sleep. She looked and was diagnosed as bipolar but has no symptoms of that since being sober. The weird bshavior of various drugs makes diagnosing impossible until they are clean and have been for a bit.

Hoping for good luck!

 

[ColleenB]

I get that we won't be able to diagnose any mental illness until he is clean.

We finally tracked him down, and talked to his roommate and some friends. Roommate says the eratic mania like behaviour started last Thursday, peaking Monday, the day I saw him and noticed the rapid speech etc.... resulting in him taking benzos for four days. He has admitted to the benzo use since Tuesday.

I told him he is choosing drugs over his school and over his life. He agreed and said he would stop. He seems to think he can just stop. He thinks this is just a slip.... I don't think he has any idea how serious this is and how it will be impossible for him to find sobriety using will power alone.

We took his two cats back to our house as it's not fair to them. He has been gone for 2/3 days and they had no food. Husband is allergic so we need to rehome them. Ugh.

I don't know how people survive a child's addiction... I feel like I'm losing my mind some days. I cried most of today.

We are actually going to the beach tomorrow since it's supposed to be nice with our best friends. Part of me wants to help him clean his apartment but I am not willing and it's not in his best interest. We dropped off cleaning supplies when we picked up the cats.

I'm not confident he will make it. He isn't taking it as serious as this episode was.

I do think we are dealing with mental illness compounded by drug use and addiction. I really do. There may be a chance it's totally the drugs and I hope it is honestly.... but who knows at this point.

 

[Teriobe]

Instead of wasting time wondering what drug it is, make him take a drug test. Alot of this crap isnt mental, its drugs

 

[StillStanding]

ColleenB,

I once asked a psychologist how can I tell the difference?

For example, if my son didn't do something important like go to a dr's appointment.

Is is because of ADHD, because he can't remember the appointments (learning disability), because he's depressed (mental illness) or because he's high?

If I could tell the difference then I would know when to help and when not to help.

At the time, his answer annoyed me but on reflection it started to make more sense.

He said, "Who cares?"

His point was, there are some things my son is not capable of it might be because of his disabilities or his drug use. At the end of the day, I have to decide for myself which things are important to me to help with.

I guess my point is, it sounds like your son needs some help. Hopefully, he'll get it and it won't matter which came first.

Good luck.

We're not alone.

 

[Littleboylost]

CB We are on parallel paths. My son goes off on drugs and Irradic behaviour and then recuperates and is back on his merry way. He has no care of the chaos he has left in his wake. He too has no comprehension of the severity of his condition.

What annoys me the most is that he is considered to have capacity to choose his health care path. Yet his outpatient workers indicate they feel he does not have the capacity to work,live by himself or mange to navigate court by himself. Stuck and sad.

My son can't even get to his alternate high school program on a regular basis.

He has episodes of psychosis from pot. And the out patient rehab works on a harm reduction model. They tell me he is pre-contemplative about rehab. Well first the rehab cycle doesn't really apply to drug addled youth and combined disorder. Second if they are supporting harm reduction why he'll would he feel impatient rehab is necessary here he will have to abstain. Finally I would like to know what a failure to launch, drug addicted teenager is. It pre-contemplative about.
I am so tired of the fight.

 

[Sam3]

"Pre-contemplative"

Oddly, the word made me bristle -- it seems so pseudo psychiatric.

Does it mean he is on the verge of wrapping his head around the idea of rehab?
Or that it's not yet on his horizon of thinking?

 

[pasajes4]

They can't make it to work, dr. appointments, therapy, or school because they are not capable, stable, mentally competent or whatever, but they can make it to their drug dealers location and friends houses at the appointed time. Makes you wonder does it not?

 

[Littleboylost]

"Pre-contemplative"

Oddly, the word made me bristle -- it seems so pseudo psychiatric.

Does it mean he is on the verge of wrapping his head around the idea of rehab?
Or that it's not yet on his horizon of thinking?

Not yet on the horizon so they are reluctant to pursue with him. Well we are reluctant have him here.

 

[Littleboylost]

Understanding the stages of addiction and recovery | Adfam | Family drug support - information for the families of drug and alcohol users
Truthfully I think this model falls short for adolescent mixed disorders. But if this is the model I have to deal with then so be it. They appear pre- contimplative about everything but friends, sleep and partying.

 

[Kathy813]

How to help in the pre-contemplation stage: As the user doesn't see there is anything to change, the most appropriate support is limiting the impact and harm of their substance use to them and to everyone else. You can also help the user to become aware of the consequences of their use and associated behaviour.

I could not disagree with the underlined part (I underlined it) more. If we limit the impact and harm of their substance abuse, why would they change? Why move to the next step?

This goes completely against the advice of twelve-step groups.

I do appreciate you sharing it, though. It is always good to share food for thought.

~Kathy

 

[Littleboylost]

I could not disagree with the underlined part (I underlined it) more. If we limit the impact and harm of their substance abuse, why would they change? Why move to the next step?

This goes completely against the advice of twelve-step groups.

I do appreciate you sharing it, though. It is always good to share food for thought.

~Kathy

I am sooo with you. I am experiencing gas lighting from this model of Bullshit.

 

[Copabanana]

i read up on the model when lbl posted about it. they do not believe that hitting bottom is necessary. rather they espouse that young people evolve and mature and as they do they make better choices. okaaay.

they advocate that families stay in the mix with loving support. okaaay.

my own response was a mixture of:

--ok. that sounnnds good.

--mild disgust. as in. talk is cheap.

--anger. they sell this

i believe every single one of us has tried to stay in the game with loving support. it enrages me that so called professionals guilt trip and strong arm loving parents as a means of witholding real support and resources.

 

[BusynMember]

To me from what I have read here for fifteen years, the addict does not mature. The addiction and addictive behavior gets to be a way of life. Age doesnt help the addict, who is mentally stuck at the age the drug use started. Now it is just what he does.

in my opinion they should offer more services as early interventions at younger ages, when brains are more flexible, in all countries. It is shameful that they dont.