Update: The waters of de Nile are calm.

[Jabberwockey]

It's not going to be in a straight line and no switch is going to be flipped one day, and then...all is well. I used to think that Lil. I spent every single day waiting for that switch to be flipped until I finally realized that was never going to happen.

Actually, I do believe that a switch is flipped. The thing most people forget is after that switch is flipped and they realize the need to change their lives, they have no real idea how to do it and tend to backslide to old habits from time to time.

And now for something completely different......
He called tonight. I answered the phone and he asked if mom was home and could he speak with her. I said yes she is home (as I was walking down the hall to where Lil was at) and what did he want? He wanted to ask us a question. He said he's been trying to find a game that didn't piss him off. Could we loan him $20 since he had a job interview so he could buy Final Fantasy? I ask him how much rent money he has. Silence for a full five seconds. Oh, never mind he says. I tell him I love him and have a good night then hang up. Seriously?!?!?!?! BORROW $20?!?!?!

And now we return you to your regularly scheduled cruise and should be nearing the Giza Plateau, estimated arrival time being noon tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[Copabanana]

Actually, I do believe that a switch is flipped. The thing most people forget is after that switch is flipped and they realize the need to change their lives, they have no real idea how to do it and tend to backslide to old habits from time to time.

Along these lines, my son called this morning. Among others things he asked if I could give him some food. I perceived this as a victory. Why? He says he has set aside money to pay off debt to two people that he owes. As important, he did not ask me to give him money for food, to take him to buy food, or to come over here to eat. He wants our food...not his special, super duper food...to tide him over for 3 days until the first....Way better than no food or money at mid month or before.

As much as anything I think he calls to hear my voice...which is not a bad thing either....As I write I am not as sure if asking for food is backsliding or going forward...or both.

 

[Lil]

.As I write I am not as sure if asking for food is backsliding or going forward...or both.

Well, he's not asking for money. He's not asking for special food. So yeah...it may be a baby step, but it's a step.

As for mine, I laugh from the sheer ridiculousness of it. Money for a video game...A VIDEO GAME. Seriously?

But hey, he didn't throw a fit or whine or call back. I'll take it.

 

[Lil]

Maybe, he too, just wants to hear your voices?

No...He just wanted a video game.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Still, it does seem a little less tense each time, at least to me. Jabber's view may differ.

Its a bit less tense each time but yes, I'm just waiting for the fecal matter to strike the oscillating air distribution device.

He simply hasn't done enough to try to improve his life for me to believe that he has even begun to change. I guess the realist in me won't allow me to "pretend" to be normal. Until he acknowledges his mistakes and starts making an honest attempt to truly live his life, we as a family can't begin to heal.

 

[Copabanana]

Until he acknowledges his mistakes and starts making an honest attempt to truly live his life, we as a family can't begin to heal.

My son may acknowledge a mistake...if I bring up one of my own first....then he will laugh and say, me too. Or maybe he will mention something he regrets in passing, but nothing too heavy. I think it is way too overwhelming to them to think about how much they really, really have blown it.

How do you define "honest attempt...?"

As I read you guys' posts I see healing going on...I see it for us, too.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Until he acknowledges his mistakes and starts making an honest attempt to truly live his life,

Ummm... Jabber?
I think you have that backwards.
Given the differences in thinking that are so much a part of many of "our" kids, I'm going to guess that he will be a LONG way down the road of "making an honest attempt to truly live his life" before he even begins to acknowledge his mistakes.

Don't pre-judge the process. Every kid is different. But you and I don't get to determine the order of the steps, no matter NOW logical it seems to us. As long as they are moving forward... take it for what it is.

 

[Childofmine]

Until he acknowledges his mistakes and starts making an honest attempt to truly live his life, we as a family can't begin to heal.

Actually, Jabber, you can begin to heal, regardless of what he does or doesn't do. That's the whole deal.

Would it be much easier to heal with him starting to walk a better path? Of course it would.

Like we learn so very well in Al-Anon, we have choices. We can stay where we are, doing the same things that we do, or...we can choose to change and part of that change will be healing ourselves. We do have the power to do that, no matter what he does or doesn't do.

I used to think exactly the same thing---that I would never be okay until he was okay. That is a choice I made, and today I make a different choice. And I still pray every day that he is more okay than the day before, whatever that looks like.

I have had to accept a whole lot of stuff I never imagined I would. Today, I am still accepting stuff that I would prefer is different. But it's his life, not mine. That took ages for me to "get," and still does.

It took a very long time for him to walk into the forest, and it's going to take a very long time for him to walk out of the forest, once he decides to start walking. And he may meander around there for a long long time. The question for us is: What do we choose to do in the meantime?

 

[BusynMember]

COM, you are always so smart in your replies. Whether others are doing well or happy or unhappy or angry, etc...it is our decision to make their lives our lives too.

I think a step forward that is significant is like when my daughter told all her drug friends to get f****d and meant it and quit, then got a job that she had to walk to and from because she had no car. That doesn't mean these are not small baby steps. It just means that will not make a significant difference in the ability to build independent lives.

When a grown child says "I'm paying people off" I either used to not believe it or think it was for drugs.That's drug talk. None of my other kids ever told us they had to "pay someone off." And Princess doesn't do that anymore. I'll have to ask her about who she was trying to pay off when I see her in a few weeks. Although those days are far behind the full time mom/housewife, she does get a kick out of the stuff she used to pull and will talk about "those days."

I have learned, maybe because I had to do it or have no good times at all, to let others do what they do and live my life as normal. When something really changes, you will know and you can celebrate it, but again it is THEIR victory, not ours. We are not our children. We are not what THEY do. We are not what anybody does but ourselves.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Don't pre-judge the process. Every kid is different. But you and I don't get to determine the order of the steps, no matter NOW logical it seems to us.

I understand this completely. Not trying to judge and I know HE determines the order of the steps. Was stating some things I felt needed to happen, not what order they needed to happen in.

 

[SuZir]

As for mine, I laugh from the sheer ridiculousness of it. Money for a video game...A VIDEO GAME. Seriously?

This got me thinking, how peculiar these things can be. I'm thinking my kid. What if he would had been born with just a little less talented in his sport, but be just as committed to it? Because really, he doesn't do it for the buck, but because it is a passion. Or if his sport would be different, little less commercial? Him putting it first, throwing everything he has into it, would be considered foolish, childish, lacking responsibility. But now that he can make a living, with some luck can someday in fact make a money most people never do, that kind of foolish passion is considered a virtue. He is praised having that whatever it takes-attitude by many.

And my dad. When he was on his lowest and he prioritized buying paints and other things he needed over buying food or paying his rent, and at times even over buying booze, that was considered a true dedication to his art. Mark of the true artist and I do know that many admired him for that.

Now, aren't you really out of luck, if your passion just happens to be video games?

It can be a thin line sometimes.

 

[Jabberwockey]

How do you define "honest attempt...?"

And that is the difficult part, isn't it? I have no problem if he tries and fails. His problem is a refusal to try. That or he puts out the most minor, token effort that is doomed to failure simply because it isn't enough. Job hunting is a good example of this. In order to get hired you have to put in applications, but JUST putting in applications usually isn't enough and his idea of job hunting is putting in two or three job applications a week and those are usually online so the management doesn't even see him.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Now, aren't you really out of luck, if your passion happens to be video games?

Not at all. If he had stuck with the programming thing he could have had a very lucrative career. Sorry, the programming was in video game design.

Besides, this wasn't about passion. It was about boredom.

 

[SuZir]

But making a game and playing a game are too different things. I doubt my kid would stick to manufacturing balls for his sport either. His passion is playing, not sewing. Also playing the video game and programming one are very different things too.

Though I have heard that some people are making money by playing them too. In certain games there are markets for characters someone with skill and time has played to certain level so that those looking for a short cut can just buy a character that already does have all the super powers etc. And I have also heard (or read from the mag) about people, who have sponsors that make it possible for them to play games like WOW as their day job (no idea what the sponsor gets out of it, though.)

 

[Jabberwockey]

He talked for YEARS about going into game design so it was an extension of his playing video games passion.

As far as getting paid to play? Yeah, that's real but you have to be REALLY good to be able to do it. Its about having someone else learn all the tricks and find all the secrets for you. The sponsors then turn around and sell the information. Think about Angry Birds. You can pay a small fee to find out the best way to beat a level. That comes from someone playing that level over and over until they figured it out then either they sold the info online or sold it to someone else who then sells it online.

 

[Lil]

Now, aren't you really out of luck, if your passion just happens to be video games?

His passion is playing, not sewing. Also playing the video game and programming one are very different things too.

I know Jabber just replied to this...but it's kind of a sore spot with us. This kid's whole life all he talked about was going to school for video game design. We find him a program and he doesn't even attend a class, just lazes away a year of his time and thousands of our money. So, yeah. Video games are not our happy place.

Though I have heard that some people are making money by playing them too.

True. There are guys on youtube who make a decent living just with their little broadcasts of them playing. We actually bought him a headset once because he wanted to be able to do decent video capture or something like that.

He sold it within a few weeks.

But I bet Jabber would love to make money playing WoW every day. Who wouldn't like to make money playing a game instead of going to work.

I sent a text this morning that said, "Good luck on your interview." He just texted me a photo of himself all cleaned up and in his interview clothes, in a car. Apparently on his way to his interview.

Really, honestly, just getting and keeping (especially keeping) a job would be HUGE. An absolutely gigantic step.

 

[SuZir]

We find him a program and he doesn't even attend a class, just lazes away a year of his time and thousands of our money. So, yeah. Video games are not our happy place.

Sorry he blew that out. My understanding is, that unfortunately it is not uncommon. Designing these games is not what kids envisioned it to be. even if they have programmed games of their own beforehand, it still may struck them with surprise what commercial game planning actually is.

I sent a text this morning that said, "Good luck on your interview." He just texted me a photo of himself all cleaned up and in his interview clothes, in a car. Apparently on his way to his interview.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Lil]

Designing these games is not what kids envisioned it to be. even if they have programmed games of their own beforehand, it still may struck them with surprise what commercial game planning actually is.

No, no. He literally never attended class. Like EVER. Within a week a letter came from the school saying they'd been notified he wasn't attending one of his classes and if he wanted to drop it he needed to do so by a certain date. I truly don't think he ever went...maybe the first day or two...but I'm not even sure about that. He was expelled of course, but appealed and somehow talked the school into letting him in the next semester. I'm 100% certain he never attended even ONE class that semester. He didn't even try. At all.

So yeah. There's that.

But past is past. Money is gone. Done is done. Maybe he'll get a job today! Really, that's all I want in the whole wide world at the moment - Him getting a job and starting to pay his own bills.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Designing these games is not what kids envisioned it to be. even if they have programmed games of their own beforehand

He never went to class long enough for this to be the issue. I would say its a fair bet that I've spent more time at work during a normal 40 hour week than he spent in class that entire school year.

 

[Tanya M]

He simply hasn't done enough to try to improve his life for me to believe that he has even begun to change. I guess the realist in me won't allow me to "pretend" to be normal. Until he acknowledges his mistakes and starts making an honest attempt to truly live his life, we as a family can't begin to heal.

@Jabberwockey , I can relate to your feelings. I went through it so many times with my son. For almost a year my son had me completly buffaloed, he was doing everthing right which led me to think he was really trying to change but he couldn't keep up the charade, his old behavior kept coming to the surface. He later told me that he was only doing "the right thing" because he knew that's what I wanted to see and he knew that if he appeared to be "trying" that I would help him. So I totally get when you say he hasn't done enough to improve his life for you to believe.
I don't know if my son will ever be able to "prove" to me that he's making changes that I feel he should. The operative word "I". I have wrestled with it over the years and thought things like, he will need to be in a steady job for 3 years then I might start believing that he's changing. What I had to come to accept is that it's his life and if he wants to live off the grid and be homeless, couch surfing, free spirit, etc.... then so be it.
I had to give up my ideas of what "I" thought his life should be and what he should be doing to make that happen.
I will always carry hope in my heart that someday...................and if that someday never comes it's ok, it is what it is.