Work and Germany; Benedictines and Buddhists: Attitude

[BusynMember]

Present and calm is such a hard thing.

Oh, Leafie and the rest of my friends. It's hard for everyone, I think, but it can be done more and more often once you are at peace.

I remember, barely, back in my teens and twenties and early thirties when I had NO peace; when I was just a leftover of the dumped daughter from a chaotic home and unable to be good to myself for a minute. I even thought if I was happy it was a jinx to me and others I loved. Isn't that odd? The older I got, the more peace I found. Perfect peace? All the time? Never a worry? I have the love I always wanted...from a husband, from many children, from my grands, from my father...all I ever wanted was to love and to be loved and it has happened...not always easily, but it did end up good. So am I calm now? Always?

Not my nature. Not even now when I've decided what to do and am at peace with FOO and when my adult children are all doing well and when even Goneboy showed up for the accident. I don't want to share that...it was not bad, just very personal. So without the daily horror stories and only Bart once in a while having angst that gives me angst (and far less ofen now that he knows he will have majority custody over Junior) shouldn't I have perfect peace?

No such thing.

Maybe I'm so wired to be rejected, spit on, shunned and treated badly that some of it is PTSD. Do you think it ever goes away entirely? Even those I don't want in my life, sometimes I miss, but it becomes less and less.

Our early years form us and live with us and we will never be totally free.But we can be present and calm a lot of the time and learn coping tools for when we get off track. We can count all the things and people we are grateful about. I try to do it every night before falling asleep. Most of us came from horrendous, abusive mothers and are now in a much better place than THAT, right?

I hope everybody has a serene night.

With sincere love to my very kind friends here.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I have wondered if this "boyfriend" my daughter speaks of, that she cannot get away from, is really a pimp. That is the only thing I can think. She came to me disheveled and hurt, but refused help, did not want me to call 911, and would not go to a DV shelter. My hubs had picked her up from the hospital months back, she had been hit on her head with a bat. Needed stitches. I asked her if it was the same guy that did that to her. She said,"He found me, he will always find me." Then she said "This is what happens when I try to leave." I am stumped.

In one way Leafy, I am sure you have done all these things already. I hope you will not take offense, or assume I am foolish enough to think I am telling you anything you don't already know. But just in case there is even one thing to try:

Have you called Social Services Blue Pages or 211 (or whatever number your United Way or Information and Referral Service) and the Women's Shelter for their take on what you might do, Leafy? Our daughter was relocated from shelter to shelter and then, out of state. She was mandated into a treatment program the last time that would have seen her treated until she was stable and then, relocated and trained. Daughter left very much AMA and things got worse. That is not the point. The point is that there may be such a program in your state or in another state, for your daughter.

I am very sorry.

If your daughter has Native blood, there may be Native programs in other states that could help her to get away.

If we can figure out what to do, moms can often make it happen, however hopeless it seems.

Even if you do find this information, she may not use it, at first.

But when she is ready, you will know.

Your state is very small. It would have to be something on the mainland, I think Leafy.

Call a Senator, a congressman, call everyone and maybe, someone will know how to accomplish this. Look into how we are saving young women trapped in sexual slavery. Look into everything, Leafy. There is money there to help her.

One day, she will be ready.

Again Leafy, my sincere apologies if you have already done these things and nothing, but nothing, has helped her.

Cedar

 

[GoingNorth]

"...into whatever they need to be in order to cop the next fix."

I know this sounds awful, but it is a comfort to me to know it. I am forever feeling betrayed, and so foolish or so mean and uncaring.

Angry, so much of the time.

"...into whatever they need to be in order to cop the next fix."

And it is selfish of me, I get that, but this phrase puts a separation between my child, my person that I love and who was my baby and my child and who came so close to growing up, and those actions (and words too) that are like, time-blasted things that I just don't know how to think about, so I don't.

Addiction is very ugly.

So, part of the way I am looking at the effects of addiction is mixing in with Family of Origin issues and the why behind those somewhere in the background where we don't have words to distinguish the hurt of abandonment in all its many colors, maybe.

I sort of knew that, but not in a coherent fashion that I could put together with what seemed to be blasting into me this year, especially.

Abandonment. Along a spectrum of tastes and colors, maybe, the betrayal that is the essence of abandonment. That is why your words matter, Going. I was not getting that my children have not betrayed me. I was believing that they had, in some intrinsic way that matters and has to do with grandchildren and dinner and cookies and family coming to the door.

That there was a choice they made.

I think I can do this now, Going.

Thank you, again.

Cedar

Cedar, they aren't abandoning you or your values. The addiction has no values and no friends. It just has needs, and the drive to fulfill those needs.

Addicts refer to needing a fix as being "sick", and getting a fix as "getting well"

Speaking for opioid addicts, specifically heroin, which is the addiction I've had the most exposure to, it's all-consuming. There just isn't ROOM in their lives for anything other than the addiction and the servicing of same.

It's only when you're existence coincides with the addiction's needs, that you come to its attention, as a possible way of feeding that addiction.

Hence the phone calls trying to scam money, or the visits and things going missing.

Its not that they hate you. Its that while they are addicted, there isn't enough room left in their addicted minds for you. Not when every waking moment is spent in the quest to "stay well".

And heroin? I can speak from experience. I tried it a couple of times in the late 70s. Once smoking and once snorting. I know what the rush and high feel like. I also knew/know that if I'd used it again I'd have wound up an addict and haven't touched it since.

But i do understand the appeal. Heroin, like no other drug out there, makes you feel warm, and safe and happy...very euphoric. Sadly, tolerances build and after a while, the addict no longer gets the rush and high, they just avert withdrawal.

Meth or ice is supposed to be the most incredible rush out there. I've never tried it so don't know. I do know that meth is NOT physically addictive, but takes a physchological hold on users that can be extremely difficult to break.

The big risk with meth is that the lack of food, water, and sleep during a "run" can do horrible damage to the body, and tweakers do stupid and irrational things. They also re-dose repeatedly trying to put off the "come down" as it's supposedly just horrible with meth. Deep depression, body pain, etc.

 

[New Leaf]

Cedar, thank you so much, I am not offended at all, this is the first I have thought that this may be what is happening. I will call and find out. At least I will have some resources, something to throw out there. I do not have to feel so utterly useless....
Thanks Cedar.
leafy

 

[Copabanana]

GoingNorth, these first two quotes are from another thread, I think. They showed up here so I will address them. Initially, I felt pain so I did not do so right away. A good kind of pain that helps me know myself a bit better.

Copa, I wouldn't doubt that you are, perhaps on a deeper level than you are usually conscious of, very angry with your son. Hell, he's killed the dreams you have for him.

Yes.

There are those dreams that that he be and do something gratifying. And or to be happy and to have kids. There is the dream that for the rest of my life we have the happiness together that we did for so many years. There is the wish to have the sense that I parented him well. Better than I had been parented. So much to lament, whether appropriate or not. I have learned here that he live my dreams is not my business to want...but it is hard to let go.

Sometimes i think this whole thing would be easier to deal with if it were a known end-point you were facing, horrible though that may sound.

The thing that makes our situation so hard is that he has a chronic disease that may well limit his lifespan. Thus there could be an endpoint that I may live to see. He is not treatment compliant, so this contributes to a very painful dynamic in our relationship. He hurts me as much or more than he hurts himself by neglecting his health. I resent it. I am angry and I am scared.

If your daughter has Native blood, there may be Native programs in other states that could help her to get away.

I worked for a long time in California Prisons. Once I walked into a woman's prison with an attorney who was an ombudsman from a local tribe in the Sierra Nevada. He was going to visit a woman to handle some legal matter for her. He told me he would assist any Native person in California, of whatever tribal or indigenous group.

I remember another male inmate who was assisted in another prison, in another part of the state.

I think the help is available no matter what the issue. It is just the belonging and the need.

There must be a clan or extended family authority or council on your island with whom you might begin. If you want me to try to find information here I will try by making phone calls.

If it is sexual slavery there are significant resources available for treatment, relocation, advocacy, and legal help. If you want I can try to locate resources for you to contact. You can let me know by PM.

By your daughter's statement, it might be this but it could be too that she feels she cannot remove herself from the situation by her own psychological dependency and drug dependency and does not feel the strength yet to do so.

Maybe if you contact some battered women's groups and/or groups that work with women who have been involved in prostitution they will know of a way you can better support your daughter to leave.

Unfortunately, this is a very common situation. Think about it. What more does a woman typically have to exploit?

I remember listening to a program in the oilfields in North Dakota. An ex-prostitute told her own story and described her efforts in the oilfields to assist the many prostitutes there. I was so moved by it.

New Leaf, I wish you did not have to "go there" in your worry and concern. That is what is so cold and harsh about our situations. Where we must go, to follow our children.

COPA

 

[InsaneCdn]

There are non-profit organizations who specialize in helping women get out of "the industry". They might be able give you some guidance as well.

 

[Copabanana]

This morning, she has been happily in her sink all morning.

We love her.

She is so cute. I can't even tell you.

I know. So is my Stella. Except I wish she had better teeth.

It has been one of the most difficult preludes to the holidays I have ever had.

?

Why do you think, Cedar? Is it because you are more real, more exposed, more conscious? Or something else? Has standing up, made it harder, not easier?

One aspect is that we are taking these words and behaviors personally when it is the addiction or its effects we are dealing with. It isn't our parenting and it isn't that our kids have no character and it isn't anything we have control over at all, not even the tiniest bit.

And it isn't that they don't love us.

Well, I do not know if I want to buy this. Because if it is not a "choice" that he can make, then it is a very bad, insidious, and pervasive thing that likely not get better. Like the psychiatrist said. I do not want to think that is the case. That my whole life and his, he will be losing every debit card, 100 times over, never mature, never have a real girlfriend, never want to do anything productive, never have a real goal that he works toward, talks about reptiles mating with martians, and all of the other things I cannot bear. If he cannot choose to get better, it means I have likely lost him forever.

This is a young person who taught himself 4 foreign languages. He taught himself portuguese in 3 weeks when he was 15 and traveled by himself with a bunch of adults to Brasil. How can I accept that he will never get better?

The drugs have altered them, for sure.

But when they stop they regain themselves. Of course they are changed by their experience. And the time they missed in terms of maturity and experience. But their mothers experience them as "themselves" and are grateful to have their children back. This I know from experience.

We are not people to her, we are an opportunity.

As am I to my own son.

For both my girls, we have become things.

Yes. How painful is that, New Leaf? You don't have to tell me. I know.

Abandonment. Along a spectrum of tastes and colors, maybe, the betrayal that is the essence of abandonment.

Maybe that is part of the anger I feel towards my son. Abandoned by him. He was my beloved. My greatest love. He woke me up with a sleeping beauty kiss. And they he left me. When I needed him after the death of my mother, his presence multiplied the devastation. He became my enemy. Why is my son my enemy? I become ill when I am around him.

That is why your words matter, Going. I was not getting that my children have not betrayed me.

I feel betrayed by son, too. I prefer that than we have been beset by something so insidious and uncontrollable that I cannot or do now want to understand. Betrayed is easier, in the short run. Because there is a response. Anger. Rage. Blame.

However much they screen whatever is true, they are preferable to: He will never change or get better.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

It's a place that offers hope that we can live a happy and full life despite the chaos our d-cs live in.

Life is to short, none of us know how many more days or years will have. We only have the moment we are in and we get to choose how we live in that moment. I choose gratitude, I choose love, I choose peace.

This is from another thread. I wanted to address here Tanya''s beautiful words.

In my post above I reacted rather than responded to the exchange between Cedar and Going North about yearning for what we do not have in our children and ourselves...and accepting what we may never have. Either angrily or gracefully.

I am still stuck in a sense of betrayal. Of not enough. Of let down. Of blame, even. I am at the point where I am not so much blaming myself but I am blaming my son. I see him as having choice, where he sees none. For this, I hold him responsible. I am angry that he does not choose differently for himself and for me.

That I know there could be real reasons that he cannot or does not or will not see a range of possibility matters to me not at all. I do not care. I persist in holding him responsible. Because I cannot bear the options.

He treats me poorly. He does not really see me as a separate person with rights, feelings, wants or needs. He shows me not at all that he sees or feels how I suffer. He shows that he cares, very little.

I know he both loves me and needs me. I know that I am the only person in the world who he feels he really has. In that, I am everything to him. I know this.

Perhaps this is key: Although he does not act like a man, he is. I can imagine how much of an impediment to emancipating is the feeling of overarching love and need of a mother. When you are 27.

So, if I look at it this way, I can see why he treats me so.

But the thing is, this train is stuck on the track. There has to be some movement.
And my son persists insisting that he is completely blocked.

Tanya chooses peace. Love. Gratitude.

I do too. But not for this.

By her choice, I see her letting her child go...in our own mind...accepting what is without finding fault, blame or responsibility. Letting the solution be the responsibility of the universe, her higher power, or her child. But not operating with the illusion that anything in our own mentality can effect one thing outside of ourselves.


That my holding onto blame or anger does not make it one bit more likely that my son will change or improve or mature. That I insist he can take responsibility does not do one thing to make it so.

If I give in and say, it is not your fault, son. You work it out Take responsibility or not. Change or do not. Live as you will. And let the emotion of it go. Breathe in. Breathe out.

Deal with him only when he calls. Or I do. Make choices based upon my own welfare and convenience and feelings. No obligation except to tell the truth about why and how and when.

I ask myself how this feels. It feels shitty.

Where does all the love go?

Thinking and ruminating and holding and giving responsibility seems to be the only way I can hold and feel my love for him now when everything else seems unsafe. Is unsafe.

It is like giving a party and nobody came.

I am wondering if this is what you are feeling Cedar. As if you got stood up by the guests of honor. Well, I did too.

How do we fill the void? My heart got so big loving my son....M occupies a different chamber. Even self love can only go so far.

I threw a party and my guest of honor stood me up. And I do not know how to get over it.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

As I reflect on my post above I realize that what I feel is stood up.

I have gotten over the shame of it. That something is wrong with me. That I caused it. Did something wrong. Let something show. The ruminating you go through about just what is it about you that caused him to leave, to back out. I must have done something. What I call the out damn spot feeling.

Now I am just pissed. How dare you stand me up. How daaaare you. Back to you. I'll stand you up.

Except I cannot.

How does one love without attachment, that is the question. I do not know. I have never known how.

I have gratitude. I have love. I do not have peace. I cannot let it be. I do not know how.

COPA

 

[GoingNorth]

Copa,

You are giving him the power over your feelings. Somehow, perhaps with the aid of a professional, you've got to take that power back.

You cannot control another's actions or behaviors. The ONLY thing you can control are your reactions.

Your happiness is entirely in your hands. I just wish I knew what to tell you to help you to see that and to grasp what you hold and iternalize it.

Hopefully someone wiser will come along.

 

[New Leaf]

I worked for a long time in California Prisons. Once I walked into a woman's prison with an attorney who was an ombudsman from a local tribe in the Sierra Nevada. He was going to visit a woman to handle some legal matter for her. He told me he would assist any Native person in California, of whatever tribal or indigenous group.

Thank you Copa, I have some numbers here for native orgs, that may be able to guide me. If I hit a snag, I will definitely PM you. Thank you so much.

I think the help is available no matter what the issue. It is just the belonging and the need.

This is key. My children do have Hawaiian blood. There are resources out there, this is the first I have thought that this may be what is going on.

There must be a clan or extended family authority or council on your island with whom you might begin. If you want me to try to find information here I will try by making phone calls.

Oh, Copa, you are so sweet. I will try from here, if that doesn't work I will let you know.

If it is sexual slavery there are significant resources available for treatment, relocation, advocacy, and legal help. If you want I can try to locate resources for you to contact. You can let me know by PM.

This is good information. I will hold on to it. The first thing I have to do is see what is available here. Of course, my daughter has to want help. Then, I do not even know where she is.

By your daughter's statement, it might be this but it could be too that she feels she cannot remove herself from the situation by her own psychological dependency and drug dependency and does not feel the strength yet to do so.

I am thinking this, too. This man could be a pimp, or a dealer. Who knows? I see less and less of my daughters spirit, each time I see her.
The drugs are taking her, Copa. I do not know what is left, right now. I have not given up hope, just seeing it for what it is.I know there is a lot of shame in her.This I see.

Maybe if you contact some battered women's groups and/or groups that work with women who have been involved in prostitution they will know of a way you can better support your daughter to leave.

Another good idea, I will research this as well. At least if and when I see her, I have something more to offer?

Unfortunately, this is a very common situation. Think about it. What more does a woman typically have to exploit?

Yes, I have read of it on meth websites. I have also read, that meth creates a very degraded sexual appetite. UGH.

There are non-profit organizations who specialize in helping women get out of "the industry". They might be able give you some guidance as well.

Thank you IC, I will look into this.

New Leaf, I wish you did not have to "go there" in your worry and concern. That is what is so cold and harsh about our situations. Where we must go, to follow our children.

Yes, Copa, it is a harsh reality. But, if I can do this, then at least I am trying something. Not to get back into enabling, but at least have resources on hand. Thank you so very much ladies, for your help and concern.
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[New Leaf]

This is a young person who taught himself 4 foreign languages. He taught himself portuguese in 3 weeks when he was 15 and traveled by himself with a bunch of adults to Brasil. How can I accept that he will never get better?

Copa, I am so sorry for your pain in this. When did your son start to change?

But when they stop they regain themselves. Of course they are changed by their experience. And the time they missed in terms of maturity and experience. But their mothers experience them as "themselves" and are grateful to have their children back. This I know from experience.

Thank you Copa, this is good to read. I saw bits of my Tornado, after she had been sober due to the CPS ordeal. It has been awhile since then. My poor grands. I got a call, recently, from a counselor, trying to reach the parents, so at least I know some sort of agency is involved. Hopefully, they will get help and my grands will have some sort of stability.

Yes. How painful is that, New Leaf? You don't have to tell me. I know.

It is a pain like no other. I think that is why I am going numb. It is too much to bear. I pray for my two, my grands, I have faith God is watching over them.
To be thought of as a thing to manipulate, to not see any remnant of love in my child's eyes, that is hard.

Maybe that is part of the anger I feel towards my son. Abandoned by him. He was my beloved. My greatest love. He woke me up with a sleeping beauty kiss. And then he left me. When I needed him after the death of my mother, his presence multiplied the devastation. He became my enemy. Why is my son my enemy? I become ill when I am around him.

What you describe of him Copa, is he ill? On drugs? The other day, my son and I were watching t.v. suddenly, the screen went black and there was a narrator, going on and on about martians and governments and such. We tried several times to change the channel, turn the tv off, to no avail. We just looked at each other, like what the heck?
I thought of your son. There is so much out there online, video games. It makes me wonder, what all of the electronic gadgets may be doing to our kids brains. My daughter has a class mate who was into playing violent video games. He doesn't want to do anything else, but smoke pot and play those games.

I feel betrayed by son, too. I prefer that than we have been beset by something so insidious and uncontrollable that I cannot or do now want to understand. Betrayed is easier, in the short run. Because there is a response. Anger. Rage. Blame.

I know this Copa, it is easier to be angry, then have a helpless feeling.

However much they screen whatever is true, they are preferable to: He will never change or get better.

Are there not medications for him? I am sorry Copa, I do not know what happened to your son. This is misery. I am so sorry for the pain of it.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[New Leaf]

By her choice, I see her letting her child go...in our own mind...accepting what is without finding fault, blame or responsibility. Letting the solution be the responsibility of the universe, her higher power, or her child. But not operating with the illusion that anything in our own mentality can effect one thing outside of ourselves.

There must come a time through all of this Copa, where there is...acceptance. After all of the stages of grief over this loss, a certain acceptance.
The hardest part to deal with, is there is seemingly no end to this. It just keeps going on, and on. A new situation, something else to ruminate over. So we work very, very hard to try and be prepared for the next phone call or visit, and the rug is pulled from beneath us again.
We have detached in the physical sense, our d cs are not living with us, but they still occupy a large part of our hearts and minds.

If I give in and say, it is not your fault, son. You work it out Take responsibility or not. Change or do not. Live as you will. And let the emotion of it go. Breathe in. Breathe out.

Deal with him only when he calls. Or I do. Make choices based upon my own welfare and convenience and feelings. No obligation except to tell the truth about why and how and when.

Yes. What else is left to do? What can we do?
Our children became our whole world to us, when they were babes, it is a natural thing. We were meant to nurture them, to train them and then, we were meant to give them their wings and let them go.
We let them go to live productive lives.
Something happened, our kids failed to launch, did it call back the intensity of those feelings, that we would give up our lives to help them, even as they became adults?
We would spend every waking moment fretting and wringing our hands, giving up what life we have left in us?
What for? Is our fretting and wringing our hands helping our d cs?

I ask myself how this feels. It feels thank you.

Where does all the love go?

It does feel . We are high achievers, aren't we? There must be something we can do, anything. I would like to hold on to the thought of Viktor Frankl, that our children are out there, searching for their meaning in life. It is not the path we would have them on, but they are searching, just the same. I will hold on to that thought, that there is a hope for them to see their potentiality. That is where my love has to go. Otherwise, I will have given up. I will not give up, but I will give in to the fact that I have no control over their choices. I only have control over what I choose, what I do.
As we all do.

Thinking and ruminating and holding and giving responsibility seems to be the only way I can hold and feel my love for him now when everything else seems unsafe. Is unsafe.

It is like giving a party and nobody came.

Copa, forgive me, but you are describing codependency. I see it in myself. It is part of being a wounded child. We learned that we did not matter. That feeling continues with us. I am going to read more about it. I hate labels, but if I cannot find a life for myself, outside of what my children are doing, then something is not right.
I think the work in FOO, is very important in this. Understanding that I was raised in a difficult situation and I grew up believing that I did not matter.

How do we fill the void? My heart got so big loving my son....M occupies a different chamber. Even self love can only go so far.

Self love is the catalyst for everything else. Love is the key, but if we don't love ourselves enough, we cannot love others. We cannot give from empty.
Perhaps the void has been there all along?
The void was that we didn't love ourselves enough in the first place?

I have gotten over the shame of it. That something is wrong with me. That I caused it. Did something wrong. Let something show. The ruminating you go through about just what is it about you that caused him to leave, to back out. I must have done something. What I call the out damn spot feeling.

But, Copa, he was supposed to leave. He is an adult. Are you feeling this way, as an abandonment issue, or is it more that he abandoned himself? I feel bereft over my two's self abandonment. Perhaps, it is less painful for me, because I have other children?

Your son, is your only child. He was your world and heart, as you described. He awoke you with a sleeping beauty's kiss. It was a bright new future for you, and him.
He filled up an empty space that was already there.
In your son, you felt whole, fulfilled.
I felt the same with my children. I was always looking for someone to give my love to, and love me back. I was broken all along, because I did not love myself enough. I did not know it, but I see it now. I have always over extended, I have been a rug for many years, giving of myself in volunteering, helping others, sometimes to my own detriment.

How does one love without attachment, that is the question. I do not know. I have never known how.
I have gratitude. I have love. I do not have peace. I cannot let it be. I do not know how.

We must learn to love ourselves, Copa.
We must learn to love ourselves.
We were not taught that.
You were the protector, the champion.
Now you must be a champion for yourself.
Healing.
It must start with letting go, then a shifting of focus.
We do not know how to do this, it feels awkward and self serving.
It is not.
We have to know how to live our lives differently, for ourselves.
We are on the threshold.
It feels strange.
Especially during these holidays when that Norman Rockwell dinner doesn't happen, we are drawn back into the cycle, of wanting that. Wondering why we don't have it. Trying to figure out how to have it.
When the reality is,
it is what it is.
There is no going back, changing, rearranging, there is only forward.
We can look back to review the lesson, but we cannot change anything.
If we know that we were not taught to love ourselves,
and we recognize this, the only thing left to do, is to learn how.

We are out of the cocoon, drying our wings in the dappled sunlight.


Contemplating how it may feel to fly.

One day, we will fly.
One day soon, we will fly.

leafy

 

[InsaneCdn]

Copa - yes, our hearts get much bigger because of our children, and in many ways more so because we have to put so much into our challenging children.

And then... they become less a part of our lives. Even totally normal healthy families have to deal with this. So... where does the love go?

In an ideal world, the love goes "out"... to others who need it. Not just grandkids, for those who have them. But to others. Someone was going to go "to the church in the valley" to help feed thanksgiving dinner to others there. Your talents, your skills, everything you have learned. Others need it, too, not just your son.

Who else can you reach out to?

I've found that reaching out helps heal the ache within. That might be just me, but I don't think so.

 

[BusynMember]

Now I am just pissed. How dare you stand me up. How daaaare you. Back to you. I'll stand you up.

Dear Copa, I do not know if this will help you. I will share what helped me. A lot. Read it and take what you like or toss it in the trash.

I did not have children to do me proud. I do think my mother did and even perhaps my father, but not me. I had them to love and hoped for the best and, since I am a realist, I knew I could not control the outcome, but that if I did my best that is enough. I did not expect to have Goneboy take off for so long. And I never did understand quite why he did, except that, in my gut, I knew that older adopted kids often don't bond and do take off. And it is no more than that they did not bond because of their formative years being lived somewhere else. I don't blame him and I don't blame us (ex and me). My other children did not leave, but did not all become what some people would call professionally successful either. I do not take t hat personally. They are happy young people doing life their way and they are good people. It took some longer to grow up...that is ok. We should not have children with too many hopes and dreams as everyone is individual. Adoption is another factor...they don't share our DNA (in my case, I consider that a BIG PLUS). But their DNA does drive them. I love them all. Dearly. I love who they are. Even when they are difficult. After all, everyone, even we, can be difficult.And we may not be exactly what they wanted in a parent. It goes two ways.

When our adult children grow up, they are no longer dependent on uus and make their own choices. It is not because of us.

Ok, so this may be unhelpful to you. I just wanted to share. One thing I never did was to have this dream child in my head that became rich, have a PhD or always stay close to me. I'm very lucky as four have stayed close to me so far and I like that, but it is not something I thought up in advance. Thinking of that dream child when we are pregnant or adopting is dangerous as almost no person can live up to our dreams and they have to f ind their own way.

Hope, Copa, you are not offended. These are the ramblings of just a regular mom.

 

[Copabanana]

I did not adopt my son and raise him with expectations that he would do or be something specific.

I adopted an infant who had suffered already extraordinarily. Both parents used drugs, had mental illnesses and were homeless. They were dying.

I wanted to love somebody. That is all.

What I am struggling with here is the suffering. His. Mine. Ours. Especially when we are together. I am physically ill when he is around me.

I do not need him to love me. Although he does.

My needs and wants are only this:

I do not want him to suffer. I want to respect him and his choices for his life. I want him to live as long as he is able. I want to be with him in the free and easy way as was the past. I want to enjoy that. I want him to show respect to me. (I know he respects me.) I want to anticipate rather than dread having contact with my son. Who I adore.

Is that too much to ask?

COPA

 

[New Leaf]

My needs and wants are only this:

I do not want him to suffer. I want to respect him and his choices for his life. I want him to live as long as he is able. I want to be with him in the free and easy way as was the past. I want to enjoy that. I want him to show respect to me. (I know he respects me.) I want to anticipate rather than dread having contact with my son. Who I adore.

Is that too much to ask?

Certainly not Copa, what you are writing of is boundaries.

Very reasonable expectations of communication that preserves your relationship.

I want the same things.
I truly do.
I understand the pain of it.
But it is not possible at this moment.

We were answering SWOTS question of "why" in FOO, here are your thoughts....

I think it matters tremendously the why of ourselves. But why is not a question that is either fruitful or production. Asking the whys cannot begin the inquiry. Why will emerge in time. First it is necessary to ask oneself what you want. Right now. In the short term future and longer term. Then ask, how will I get there. What will I do to reach my goal.

So your goals, you have stated above. The what.
Now to figure out the how.

Maybe to break it down to simpler, smaller steps.
Short, brief calls.
"I am thinking of you and just wanted to say I love you."

Or even a card, a little note.

That's it, small little sparks of communication, that leave you both feeling good.

leafy

 

[Copabanana]

I do not want him to suffer. I want to respect him and his choices for his life. I want him to live as long as he is able. I want to be with him in the free and easy way as was the past. I want to enjoy that. I want him to show respect to me. (I know he respects me.) I want to anticipate rather than dread having contact with my son.

So, these are my goals. These are what I want. That I cannot control. That is the key here.

I can only set limits. In myself and in my contact with my son. The loss, the feelings come up when I want more. The holidays awaken longing. Which is usually contained.

Wanting is very conflicted for me. That is why my internet buying is so insatiable, when I allow the monster to come out of its cave.

I looked up wanting yesterday on the internet. To lack. To need. To be lacking. Defective. Damaged. Words like that: not being enough. Incompleteness. Words like that.

When we use the verb: I want (this or that or him or her) . It seems so strong. So decisive when the truth of it is the reverse. It is to say I am lacking...so I need.

When did the meaning change? The need and weakness of it become invisible.

Do I fear the weakness or the power of "to want"? Is it to make myself complete, that I fear...or is it to reveal to myself the damage of myself?

I am practicing wanting on the internet. I keep coming up short.

Certainly not Copa, what you are writing of is boundaries.

Very reasonable expectations of communication that preserves your relationship.

So, as I read this again, for me, this requires "a practice" or practices to make relationship with my son. What could I do that would build love and trust, rather than erode it? What would reinforce in myself that I love him...that I am a good mother, rather than the reverse? What can I do on my own terms, not his, that will work?

There are two parts to this: With him and within myself. The latter seems easier. I can find within myself that part that is a loving mother, strong and true. Through art. Through reading. What needs mending I can work to reinforce.

With him, harder. Ours is not a relationship of correspondence. I cannot remember ever having written him a letter. Emails, yes. But I do not want to do that.

I was thinking yesterday that I would like to send him a few references of books, of websites, that would inform his thinking about world events. I mean, my thinking about world affairs is not too different that his, except I do not believe reptiles have mated with martians to create a cabal that rules the world. There are thinking people that believe we are at risk to world war. There are thinking people that believe there is a power base that seeks to manipulate world history.

If he just stops talking about the martians, I could engage with him. There are websites like "The Intercept" or "The Guardian" that intelligently critique the mainstream press. But I think engaging him in any way that threatens to trigger either of us is a risk.

What do you think about sending him some names of websites or some books?

First it is necessary to ask oneself what you want. Right now. In the short term future and longer term. Then ask, how will I get there. What will I do to reach my goal.

What is my goal here? It is not easy to identify. Do I want relationship with son or am I seeking relationship with myself?

COPA

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

The addiction has no values and no friends. It just has needs, and the drive to fulfill those needs.

I will learn more about addiction. I already thought I knew everything about it, which is always a fatal error for me. To intellectualize a thing and think that is an answer to suffering, I mean. Maybe, if I can remember these factual things, I can keep myself out of that black abandonment place that has to do with childhood trauma but somehow, keeps getting mixed in with the trauma surrounding my children.

Copa, I love your description of Sleeping Beauty kisses.

I think I may have just gotten that imagery and you are exactly right.

And raising kids was like dreaming full dreams that were so real we could taste them, and feel the wonderful warmness of the celebration their lives and ours were and would be and our gratitude was so perfectly warm and happy and right, like a symphony with stars and then, right in the middle of it BOOM. They were gone.

And we were turned into Isis searching for the lost parts and then, into Maleficent, stuffing a turkey no one but us is here to eat when everyone should have been here making the turkey the secondary thing instead of the star of the show. (Isis the goddess, you guys. Not the soldiers.)

The trick I think is less how to love them still, or to be grateful for what we had, than it is to understand that addiction piece. Or, like Headlights Mom posted for us on P.E. that time, about gratitude: "Lest I grow cold...."

Maybe, we need to look at this part too as the process of becoming our own best mothers. That is what Maya did. And then, she rewrote the story for herself, and for everyone else too, even us.

I will read Maya again.

Did you know she has a cookbook? The Halleluiah Table and I love it, and read one of the stories in it to my Book Club.

And they loved it, too.

And here is an interesting aside Copa, given that we were just talking about being stood up: The story was about a long, tall, beautiful man who dumped Maya after she came to his apartment early in the week and found a woman there that he loved and who knew all about Maya's evening visits. The woman left so the man could dump Maya in private and he offered her some of the woman's rice pudding.

So Maya got up and went home and made her own rice pudding. And never went back there again, because he made her feel too big and ungainly and unattractive and he was right.

But she was doing it to herself. He was being nefarious, but Maya was doing the rest of it to herself, all by herself and she knew it all along.

And that is the recipe for Rice Pudding in the book.

So, I don't know how all that fits in here, but it probably does.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Do I fear the weakness or the power of "to want"? Is it to make myself complete, that I fear...or is it to reveal to myself the damage of myself?

I think we are dealing with abandonment issues because we never once saw it coming and were powerless to change it once it did. So, we are popped into childhood coping and defensiveness and rage because the hurt is from two times and not just this time.

I think Going's telling us how it is from the personhood of our children, who are in the grip of something they don't understand until it is too late either will help us. Going said something yesterday about everyone believing addiction will not happen to them.

But then it does.

And it's too late because everything is like a carousel ride you cannot dismount from. Maybe, they only see us when the carousel comes around, like they did when they were little.

And they don't want us to know what's happened to them when the carousel turned and we could not see them, and they could not see us.

Cedar