Your house/your rules -How to stop 17 yo from using pot in house?

[susiestar]

I am sorry you are so conflicted about calling the cops. It might be what helps get him some help, or it might not. He is almost certainly doing more than pot if he is faking drug tests that well. In a state where pot is so lightly penalized there is very little reason to fake the urine test if all you are doing is pot. I would look into a hair test if you truly want to know what he is doing and how long he has done it. As I understand it, the hair drug test kit goes back about 90 days if the hair is long enough and costs about $80. You can get one online at walmart.com or at other online retailers.

As far as making him pay for things, why not pawn his stuff. He is only 17. He cannot legally own things. If he owes you $, you can pawn his stuff. If he takes your stuff, that is theft and you can call the cops to press charges. Don't threaten this if you won't do it though. If you are going to strip his room, pawn or sell his stuff to pay for what he has taken from his siblings and from you.

I know you love him, but he is a danger to your other children. He is showing you who he is and this is NOT what you need or want around your other children. Sacrificing your other children on the altar of your oldest child's ODD & pot smoking is just not rational or good parenting. And that is what is happening. This needs to be about parenting the other four kids because you cannot save Name any more. You cannot save someone who does not want to be saved, and he is flat out determined to go down this road. Only by backing off and letting him know that you love him, you are there but you will NOT follow down this road and you will NOT let him drag the rest of you down, will you have a chance at maybe helping him in the future.

You need to go to meetings of Alanon/Narcanon until you find a group that fits you. I also STRONGLY suggest you read the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. Parenting Your Teen With Love and Logic is another book that you might find very useful. I think it is probably a bit late for that last one though. It might be useful with the other kids. You are going to have your authority tested with the other kids in the next years. They have seen you be ineffective with your difficult child and they are going to test to see if they can get away with it. It is just human nature and you need to prepare to deal with it. Detaching isn't going to be easy. It doesn't mean you don't love your son. It just means you accept that you cannot change him and you cannot be part of this part of his life. You have to mourn the loss of the hopes and dreams you had for him, and you have to come to terms with the new realities that include not knowing if he is okay sometimes. This is hard, and not what ANY parent wants, and it just hoovers.

I am so sorry. I wish we had more solutions for you.

 

[RN0441]

Percy

And keep in mind that this is how he is right NOW. This is the him you are dealing with NOW. This is not (hopefully) you're forever son.

I do not have much of a relationship with my Difficult Child right now due to all of his poor choices and years of heartbreak (even though he is better than he has been for many years).

If I thought I'd never have a good relationship with him again, that would be hard to accept and hurt me deeply. We had always been extremely close.

This is trying to parent in the right way to get him through this time of his life so this doesn't become his new way of living. The son you used to know has changed. Mine has too. You can't think of him as that lovable little boy right now. That will make you weak.

 

[BusynMember]

One last thing. If we talk too much not only will they use it again st u.s but our anger, tears, disappointment makes it about us and can cause a permanent disconnect. Our wishes and dreams for them is about us, and that is our problem. Nobody should have a child just to fulfill our own needs.

 

[Percy]

So, his room reeked of weed late late Tuesday night. Again.

On Wednesday evening, when son not home, I went through the room. Husband and I found, and removed, and destroyed: one large, expensive glass bong (the second one of these in 6 weeks - they are not cheap! I don't get why he keeps buying them (I know he buys them bc he had it delivered to our house from online seller, and I saw package and invoice in his room!); several water bottle homemade bongs, a small bottle of urine (disgusting! And presumably to be used to fake next juvenile probation officer drug test), several bags and containers that previously contained weed (ID'd by smell), several green Medical Marijuana Rx bottles (not sure where he got those, they also previously contained weed per smell), a bottle of Benadryl pills (he abuses these), matches, lighters, and a few other things.

Husband texted son, who was not home, that his room smelled of weed, we searched it and removed and destroyed X, Y, Z, that he may not use/consume weed in our home, nor may he bring weed or drug paraphernalia into our home; and that if he does so again, we will remove/destroy again. (We will; we have done this many, many times. But with seemingly no impact.)

Son didn't respond, but did not come home Wednesday night. Came home for 5 min (in and out) at 6.30am, and then did not come back again until sometime after 2am last night. I have no idea where he was.

I really don't get it -- WHY does he continue to use weed in our house and bring it into our house? He knows we will search the room, and confiscate and destroy. Bongs and weed cost money. We explicitly acknowledge that we can't control what he does out in the world, and that if he is going to make the choice to smoke weed, it will have to be elsewhere and he will have to live with the possible consequences (i.e. getting arrested etc.) Why doesn't he just go elsewhere and use weed with his friends??
(Of course I don't want him to use weed anywhere, but I have accepted that I can control very little about what he does.)

 

[RN0441]

Because he is not thinking straight. He's using drugs and his mind is not right. My son did the same thing. We did what you are doing also.

No one should have to live like this. I'm sorry you are going through this and it brings back painful memories for me.

Now I use my son's bed to pack and unpack suitcases for our trips! Otherwise his room is in tact - for now. He'll never live with us again though. I cannot count the times we have found drugs in his room. How many times he threw up on the new carpet we bought him that he had to have because the wood floors were cold and he didn't like that. Yes we did this. How many time he was up all night higher than a kite and on the phone and I would just lay there praying he'd just go to bed. In and out all night. Cars pulling up all night, car doors, dogs barking. UGH HATE IT ALL.

 

[AppleCori]

That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

Why can't they just follow a few simple rules and make all our lives easier...but most of them don't.

It's common, so common, for the majority of our D Cs, to refuse to follow the simplest of rules.

It happened in out house, every time we allowed our D C back into the house.

There is just no reasoning with a drug addict. The drugs are more powerful.

Apple

 

[BusynMember]

Because he doesn't believe you will do anything about it. When will he be 18?

Maybe you should change the locks and not give him a key. He can sleep elsewhere if he's not No one by your curfew for him.

 

[Percy]

Because he doesn't believe you will do anything about it. When will he be 18?

Maybe you should change the locks and not give him a key. He can sleep elsewhere if he's not No one by your curfew for him.

That may well be true. While we search, confiscate and dispose of, maybe that isn't enough. He will be 18 in 3 months.

Can't change locks - that is criminal lockout in our state, including re an adult child or long term guest in one's home. If child/guest doesn't leave based on request, one must follow eviction procedures, including notice period. And re a
Minor it is a a few other possible misdemeanors: constructive abandonment; neglect; failure to support. The downside of not following the law in this regard is too great; at least up until this point I have always been on the right side of the law and have not undermined my credibility as a competent, law abiding parent.

 

[RN0441]

Three months isn't far off. Then you can evict him legally if he won't comply!

 

[Percy]

Three months isn't far off. Then you can evict him legally if he won't comply!

True! That is what keeps me from really stepping off the precipice!

Being able to tell him he can't live with us without respecting house rules will be helpful, and give me a tool to regain control over my own home. But evicting him will nonetheless be difficult, emotionally fraught, and awful. I love my son; I don't love what he is doing, but I love him. And I miss having a relationship with him. And making him leave when he doesn't have the $ to support himself will be very hard. But it will likely be the right, and I guess best, thing to do.

 

[Copabanana]

And making him leave when he doesn't have the $ to support himself will be very hard.

You can give him options, like Job Corps or the military. He may not want these options, but that is not your responsibility. There is the point at which it is our job as parents to insist that their poor choices have limits, at least in the terrain that we control.

I am having the same battle with my own son. I hate it, but I see it as fighting for him, as well as myself.

one large, expensive glass bong

Where do you think he is getting the money? Is he dealing? I forget.

WHY does he continue to use weed in our house and bring it into our house?

I think the why is complicated.

Asserting himself to be an adult, which is pretty much limited to individuating through bad behavior different from your values.

This is a symbolic power play, to show who is boss over him: i.e. not you. That he makes the rules for him, especially with respect to you; especially with respect to your house.

The key for us is removing the pay off, and increasing the costs.

The costs: paying for upkeep when emancipated (rent, food, car, etc.) The lack of family support. The legal consequences of bad behavior.

Right now you are insulating him from the costs. In 3 months that can change.

 

[Percy]

Where do you think he is getting the money? Is he dealing? I forget.

He has money because he has job, and a reasonably good job for a high school student/teenager (makes about $20/hour), and works 20-25hrs/week. Hence, he has income that I don't control, that he can spend on weed, bongs, fast food etc. I couldn't rule out that he is dealing on any type of scale or doing so regularly, but I don't think he is. I think he does probably distribute by "sharing" with friends, and possibly by reselling an ounce or two to friends when he buys weed. (I know this is legally distribution, but I think there is still a difference on the dealing spectrum between giving your friends a few ounces and them paying your back, to actually acquiring larger amounts, packaging, selling to a network and/or strangers.)

 

[Percy]

Asserting himself to be an adult, which is pretty much limited to individuating through bad behavior different from your values.

This is a symbolic power play, to show who is boss over him: i.e. not you. That he makes the rules for him, especially with respect to you; especially with respect to your house.

I think you are correct. He often flings retorts about how he is living in the "real world" and living like an adult.

 

[AppleCori]

I think you are correct. He often flings retorts about how he is living in the "real world" and living like an adult.

Percy,

That's laughable.

When he is paying his own bills and supporting himself without any help from his parents, he will be living in the real world.

Right now he is living in his own little world, where he gets to make all the decisions for his life, spend his money on whatever he wants, and do whatever he pleases.

I do agree with Copa, though. He is probably trying to assert his independence, but it is all an allusion.

You are in the same position most of us have found ourselves in-having to choose between living with our child and allowing them to treat us and our household with contempt, or forcing them to leave and having to deal with the fallout from that.

There are no easy answers.

One of the members here did institute a "break the rules and you must be gone for 24-hours rule" thing. It worked out for their situation, after the child turned 18, of course.

 

[Copabanana]

He is probably trying to assert his independence, but it is all an allusion.

Really. This is true. An independent life on your dime, on your shoulders.

"break the rules and you must be gone for 24-hours rule" thing.

I like this. Why did I not think of this?

 

[UpandDown]

Percy,

I have been where you are. My son too felt it was his right to smoke weed in our home and also once upon a time was diagnosed with ODD. I also have younger children. What a nightmare its been. Up and down, up and down. I know he still smokes but somehow he finally got the message that it was easier to go and smoke elsewhere and to keep it hidden from us. I have heard some of the exact same things out of his mouth as your son. Its a plant, its from the earth, its basically legal (not here where we live),etc. We tried drug testing at home and were shocked that he too used someone else's urine. Felt like a complete fool after we learned that. But honestly I never thought of it. He will be 18 in the Spring so we are muddling through for now. We finally got to the point where we don't pay for gas, a cell phone, car insurance. When he has cash, he can go buy a card for his phone. He does do that from time to time. Anytime I found any weed or related items, I flushed them. I don't know what finally got through. Perhaps he got tired of the game of cat and mouse. I did call the police a few times (for different reasons) but although he put up a front, it scared him thoroughly. I think he also sees that soon he will be 18 and can leave the house and do whatever he wants. Perhaps that sustains him. I don't know. He does know that we are completely serious about making him leave when he turns 18 if he is using in our home. I think staying the course on how you are handling him is important. Keep smashing the bongs. Keep calmly reiterating that "we do not allow drugs in our home". Keep flushing the weed. Just because his behavior doesn't change, doesn't mean he isn't hearing you. My son would get so upset and take off running , staying out all hours. We called the police and had them out looking for him. It was really really cold out and everyone was worried for his safety. The police called his friends looking for him. That also seemed to scare and embarrass him thoroughly. He wasn't charged just told by the police to find a way to tell us his whereabouts so we wouldn't call police.

 

[Percy]

Thanks UpandDown - your shared experience makes me feel not so alone, and not "crazy" in what I am feeling.

 

[Percy]

Sigh...so I am back to this thread again. I'm sorry to continue on this topic, but I am at a loss, and you all have been so supportive and helpful.

Last night, 3am, I woke up to the smell of weed. I got up and went to the hall bathroom (the one my kids use). Door was closed; but not locked, because I removed the locks from the doors 6 months ago for this very reason, so he couldn't lock himself in to smoke. (bathroom has two doors, leading to two different hallways). 17 yo was in there. All other kids sound asleep. I used to hesitate to open the bathroom door, because what if he was undressed, or using the toilet. It seemed like crossing a personal privacy boundary that was inappropriate. But I have been girding myself that he doesn't deserve respect of those boundaries if he is smoking weed in my home, in my bathroom. That his expectation of privacy is negated by his blatant breaking of house rules, the law.

I opened the door, he was dressed post-shower (thank goodness) and he turned around to me and told me to leave. I calmly said, I smell weed. You are smoking in the bathroom. He said get out. I said, no I'm not going out. This is my home and you are smoking in it, you are not allowed to do that. The bathroom window was wide open (we leave in the northeast USA, single digit temps, so no rational reason for the window to be open.) On the counter were a book of matches and something else I couldn't quite see around the corner (irregularly shaped bathroom). Looked like bubble wrap maybe. On the floor was an empty soda bottle. I speculate that it was part of a homemade bong (soda bottle with socket wrench bit/cylindrical attachment through the lid - I find them all the time.)

We went several rounds of me saying, I'm not leaving. I smell weed and I want to see what is going on in here. He saying leave. etc. My son is over a foot taller than me, and 40+ lbs heavier. And much stronger. He was blocking me from entering at the doorway, but I finally stepped in because he was focused on blocking me from walking over to the counter. Every time I attempted to walk/slide/duck past him, he blocked me. He shouldered me back into doorway and made elbow/arm contact several times to block me, so he did make physical contact. I am providing this detail to show how it was partly a physical confrontation, but that he did NOT hit me, push me. He could easily have overpowered me and pushed me out of the bathroom - there is no question who could physically dominate whom. I don't know how to feel about that contact... a child blocking his mom and elbowing her like a toddler? or a man elbowing and shouldering another, smaller, weaker person..?

***You all helped me so much to recognize one dynamic in the moment (I often would see it after the fact, but last night was the first time I was very cognizant while it was happening.) He told me that he wasn't going to move, I wasn't coming in, he could stand there all night, I should just leave, he could do this for hours, and what did I think was going to happen? that suddenly he would start respecting me and following my rules? that in 5 minutes he would change his mind and start to respect me? After years of my terrible parenting, that I was a terrible parent, why did I think he would respect me, why would he follow one of my insane rules, that he has no respect for me, that he doesn't even consider me a parent... ETC. ***

Well, for the first time I saw it in the moment for the diversionary tactic that it is. I felt so much stronger, and in more control, even though it was 3am and I was in my bathrobe and I was in a standoff with my son in the bathroom door, him blocking my entry. THANK YOU to everyone who helped me alter my thinking to be able to see such a dynamic in the moment.

I didn't engage on any of it, I merely repeated: "Move." "You may not block me" "You may not smoke in my home" calmly, over and over. After about 20 min. He turned on his heel, quickly grabbed all the stuff on the counter (which I still had not seen clearly, other than the book of matches) and stuffed it in his pockets, and stormed out of the bathroom telling me f-you, and variations thereof. I didn't really see what he put in his pocket, due to the angle.

I don't know what to think now.
I guess I prevailed in the standoff, and held my ground - did I prevail? Or did I lose because I engaged in the standoff?
Did I show strength or weakness? It was clear that I couldn't move past him, and that physically he was in control.

AND WHAT DO I DO NOW? I am thinking I should remove his bedroom door today. Along the lines of he loses privacy because he abuses his privacy by using drugs in my house. And I found and confiscated the bong etc. in his room a few days ago. So he is abusing the privacy in his room, and the bathroom. Thus, he loses such privacy.

I sort of feel like I should take off one of the bathroom doors as well? (we have another 1/2 bath in our house, so there is a toilet in a bathroom with a door for the kids to use, and there is an opaque shower curtain in there, and the younger kids don't even use that shower because they like mine better.). If it were only he, I would do that in a heartbeat. But I am hesitating to do that because that directly and negatively impacts my other 4 children (aged 11-16), who deserve privacy and are entitled to a door on their bathroom. But as long as there is a door on that bathroom, I feel certain he will continue to smoke in there... I am torn...??

Sorry for the long post, but the middle of the night confrontation was so upsetting, and my stomach has been churning from it. (Right after it I experienced such massive acid reflux I was tossing back Zantac in desperation!)

 

[Copabanana]

Every time I attempted to walk/slide/duck past him, he blocked me. He shouldered me back into doorway and made elbow/arm contact several times to block me, so he did make physical contact.

This happened to me, when my son was 17. He did block me with a defensive martial arts move, and broke my foot!

"Move." "You may not block me" "You may not smoke in my home" calmly, over and over.

This is strength. You took back your power.

did I prevail?

You did. You prevailed.

I am thinking I should remove his bedroom door today.

I think this would send a symbolic message. But it also escalates.

As far as the message to your other kids, I think by holding ground, you hold ground for them. They all (and your 17 year old) need for you, depend on you holding onto your power and authority...not necessarily prevailing each time, but acting to do so....to not give in to this arbitrary and unthinking dominance play of your child....I would not see it as taking away privileges of your other kids, but as showing them that they will be protected, their home will be protected...to the extent that you are able...you will do so. It is not in the main about winning. It is about taking responsibility.

Your son cannot be allowed to take control...without a fight. That is what I think.

I experienced such massive acid reflux I was tossing back Zantac

I know how this is. I went through months where it felt like my digestive system was being eaten up by Drano.

You are doing phenomenally.

Your son will escalate. But remember that you are doing this for him, too. Especially for him. This is not against him. It is for your family. For him.

Remember it is for 3 months. You can choose to see this as in your favor. For 3 months you have a voice in how he lives. You are using it. This is for him. You are speaking out for his best interests. And for your children's interests.

 

[BusynMember]

What he did to you was violent and what he said was abusive. I would have called the police with no qualms at all. I have called the police simply because my daughter smoked pot and it wasn't legal yet. That I would never have tolerated. He'd not live in my house after that. I would have gotten a TRO to get him out if I had to. And I wouldn't feel bad about it. My kids all knew if they broke the law, the police would be contacted.

He prevailed. He took his stuff after bumping you and verbally violating you and got off with no consequences. It's good that you didn't cave, but what did he lose by his hideous behavior? Nothing.

You can't make him respect you or anyone, but he can shoulder his disrespect outside of your home.

It is lose/lose to give him no accountability. He needs you to be strong and youneedto be strong or it will just ramp up. If you hAve younger kids it is best they see you won't tolerate this. My youngest daughter saw us being tough with older daughter. She won't even touch pot and is close to finishing her studies in college and joining the police academy. She loves her sister, who is now straight, but is nothing like she was. Nor is younger son.

You do best living your values in my opinion. You don't want another child to follow his footsteps.

I am sorry. Big hugs.