Your house/your rules -How to stop 17 yo from using pot in house?

[Albatross]

It could have escalated much more than it did. I think you handled it well.

I remember my aunt once broke the bathroom door open to confirm her suspicions that my cousin was smoking pot. Aunt wanted the bag of pot so she could call the police, cousin was wrestling it away from aunt, aunt slipped and hit her head on the counter. (Then cousin calmly flushed pot.)

Of course, his blocking you and making contact is a BIG concern, but I am not sure I would have involved the police, given there was not intentional contact. That ramps things up in myriad ways that you may not want.

I am sorry, but I don't remember and don't see a mention of spouse in your signature. Was Mr. Percy home during the altercation?

Removing locks from the bathroom doors was a natural consequence of him smoking pot in your house and a way of taking your power back. I think the bedroom door is appropriate as well.

But honestly, Percy, what are your plans when he turns 18? Will you be evicting him?

Any steps you take to show your son who's boss are going to cause things to escalate, given his obvious disrespect of your authority.

I guess I am wondering if it's worth it or whether you might be better off just continuing to throw out his pot and paraphernalia and stand your ground, and just keep on counting the days.

BUT...if there is another instance of physical contact like what he displayed last night, I would definitely involve the police and take steps to have him removed from my home.

Aside from the physical side of it, not rising to the bait of his insults was really an amazing feat, in my opinion. You didn't allow him to deflect and stayed focused on the issue at hand and maintained your parental stance calmly. You are a better person than me, that's for sure!

No, it's not a miracle turnaround but you weren't expecting that. You just want him to stop smoking pot in the house, right?

Not my son so it is easy for me to say, but I think I would be seriously considering getting my ducks in a row for his 18th birthday.

 

[Copabanana]

I think I would be seriously considering getting my ducks in a row for his 18th birthday.

I agree.

Your son is NOT DOING OR SAYING one thing to encourage you that he is responding to your judicious and responsible efforts to keep limited parental control and responsible authority in your home. He is insulting you and assaulting you verbally in your own home which is yours. You pay for everything. He has no rights, beyond those that legally protect him. Yet he is trying to take away your rights and dignity. He has set himself up to denounce you and disenfranchise you.

I do not say this to make you feel bad, but to acknowledge the position you are in.

I agree with Albatross. I would think about what I needed to do now, in order to on his 18th birthday take control over my space. It is not in anybody's interest that this continues longer than it has to.

I would not escalate, I think, if I were you. I would do, as Albatross advises, the minimum, to maintain my legitimacy. No pot. I will confiscate. And know that I will enforce his leaving at 18.

What about getting the NOLO press books that address your legal situation and show you how to proceed?

 

[mof]

Percy..

Any change in attitude is a win in my book. We all take different steps. We r at an odd space in our home too. Even sober o ur man child has no door...and we just randomly read his phone. This has passed him off...but still won't come clean who he gave money to and why. We said...lies...no privacy...drugs no home.

I don't know when he will grow enough to see all the light..be cause I know he sees some of it.

Peace my friend....we all have stomach churning.

 

[Percy]

I am sorry, but I don't remember and don't see a mention of spouse in your signature. Was Mr. Percy home during the altercation?

Yes, Mr. Percy was home. I woke him up when I smelled the pot. I told him that I was going to address the situation, and that I thought it better 1:1, because 2:1 usually escalates and makes it much worse. And my husband has been losing his cool (verbally) in frustration with him lately, whereas I have reached a new, calm space. Husband is also a deep sleeper, and wasn't fully awake, whereas I am a light sleeper, hear all during the night, and was already clearheaded.

Dynamic with Son and Mr. P has been poor of late, although they have almost a non-existent relationship at this point. I work from home part time, and am the stay at home mom parent, so I end up having 90+% of the contact with Son, and have many, many, many more interactions with son. (negative and the rare positive interaction). So Mr. Percy was sitting in bed listening, bc I was nervous to get into it with son and wanted husband to be able to intervene if necessary, but I consciously said to Son "Do I have to wake your father up", so that Mr. P would know that I did not want him to come in and escalate the situation, that I was handling. (Or at least handling well enough).

 

[Percy]

But honestly, Percy, what are your plans when he turns 18? Will you be evicting him?

Yes, evicting him is an option. It will be awful, but it is likely I will (have to) do so.

 

[Percy]

I agree.
What about getting the NOLO press books that address your legal situation and show you how to proceed?

Thanks - I'm have become well versed in my state's laws in this regard, and for this purpose; I know the process and what I have to do. (Have him served with a Notice to Quit, give a certain period for him to move out, then can evict with assistance of police etc. if necessary. This is not hard procedurally, but will be very hard emotionally.)

 

[Percy]

Thank you to all of you for your feedback. I hear the perspective about calling the police and how it was aggression, and I appreciate others who said they also would not have called the police. Honestly, it did not occur to me to call the police. I did not feel fear or threatened in a way that would make me feel like that should've been an option. Maybe my perspective is skewed but that was my mindset at the moment.

Things got even worse today, if that was possible. When he got up around noon, I calmly told him that I would be removing the door as a consequence of his actions. I said, he was using private space to do drugs and not follow our family rules and values, therefore he would lose the privacy of his space.

The conversation was horrible, horrific, ugly. However, I was completely calm, never raised my voice, and did not allow him to distract me with the litany of abuse about bad parenting etc. that I had previously described to all of you. I stayed on message, and only on message.

It was very ugly though. Three of my younger children were at home, as was my husband. My husband came to get involved while I was talking to his son, through a closed door at that particular moment, and I actually told him to let me handle it. I felt like it was better one on one, because two on one inevitably escalates the situation. Son was basically unhinged. He really was like an out-of-control crazy person, **verball**y. Said horrible horrible things to me shouting screaming telling me to myself telling me you, telling me how much he hated me you didn't love me had no respect for me that I was a tweaker (not really sure what that means in this context, I googled it and it sounds like it means methhead, but I am certainly not a methhead, and in fact have never used any drug in my entire life! )

Son kept slamming door on me but then opening it, kept saying that I don't treat him like a real person, all I care about is pot. That he would never have a real conversation with me if I don't back down and admit that his smoking pot doesn't harm anyone. Then until I can admit that I am a terrible parent he can't have a real conversation with me.That I need to get over myself, that it has no impact on anyone what he smoking at 3 AM. And on and on.

I calmly repeated that I don't want him to do drugs, I don't want him to smoke pot, I can't control him out in the world, but he may not use drugs smoke drugs or store them or their paraphernalia in my home. I told him that I love him and care about him, I will always be concerned about him, but I have boundaries and values and he needs to respect them. There was a lot more but you get the idea.

My younger kids heard it all, and my husband said later that what they heard was a calm soft-spoken rational person talking to an out-of-control, name calling, hate spewing crazy person (my son being the latter.) And that every single thing I said was the message we would want our younger kids to hear as well.

After-the-fact I talked with each of the younger kids one-on-one to explain why I was taking my son's door off and why we just had that horrible conversation. I emphasized that Son's actions necessitated my responses. That it was within son's power to make choices to not use drugs, and to not use them in our house. And that every privilege we take/have taken away from, always has an explicit path for how it could be earned back if son we're willing to do so. That son was making the choice to use drugs in our house and not respect our home and family. I told younger kids that I love son, and I will never give up on him, but his consequences have actions and dad and I have boundaries, and expectations and we all have the right to live in a drug free home. I wasn't as calm talking to younger kids and ended up with tears rolling down my face at the end of each conversation, but I suppose it isn't horrible for them to see that I am genuinely upset by the situation they witnessed. It was objectively upsetting.

I feel like son is kind of decompensating. His verbal tirades are getting more and more out of control. His ad hominem attacks and profanity have markedly increased in the last two weeks. As has his use of dominating physical space and blocking me in doorways.

But again, a huge thank you to everyone who has provided me feedback. I really think your feedback was what me able to see how he was using all the other things he was saying smokescreens and distractions from the issue at hand. Last night and today were horrible, but they would have been much worse without this forum.

And 10 minutes ago Husband and I took the door off.

 

[BusynMember]

Percy, yes, I am tough but I got results. At any rate, I am far more concerned about the memories of your younger kids than crazed abusive son. My younger kids were terrified when things got out of control. They would hide and shake and they told me they were scared. The worst time was when daughter pulled a knife on herself and held it against her neck. I freaked and called 911 and the young ones had to see the cops handcuff their sister. She cried. I cried. It was not good for the younger ones to see.

I feel you need to take care of the trauma the younger ones experience than the older one. They will not remember good home memories if this continues and may follow his path. You do not have an only child, which is easier. Those of us with multiple kids in my opinion can't let this violence go on in front of them.

Deliberately bumping you many times is violence. It was not an accident. How dare he do that to you. A bump/shove to keep you away is so I appropriate and yes violent. And he did it multiple times. If you will not call the police, at least do not no i.ize it. Most kids NEVER bump/shove their parents. It is wrong. It is an attempt to intimidate.

i hope you figure it out. None of us want to do the worst to our older kids but we have an obligation to protect our youngest kids first. They deserve a quiet, peaceful house. They deserve to feel safe.

Please do not sacrifice EVERYonE in your family for this one mean, rude, rule breaking son. Yes hes your son but he is not in control or safe to all.

Truly..You will eventually get it negatively from your younger kids if you sacrifice their lives for his. Please think it over. Hugs!

 

[Copabanana]

And that every single thing I said was the message we would want our younger kids to hear as well.

I thought this too. Admirable but tough, tough, tough.

I feel like son is kind of decompensating. His verbal tirades are getting more and more out of control

As has his use of dominating physical space and blocking me in doorways.

Let me preface this by saying: I think you handled this beautifully and did the right thing. Underline that, please. I am wondering if your son has been using the Pot to self-medicate and if there is some mental vulnerability. If this is so it was even more important that you set limits and enforce boundaries, so that he cannot control his own psyche by acting out, and that the problem gets back where it really is: his own head.

I understand that you have almost no control right now over what he does or decides, but how you understand what is going on with him is important too. If he became unhinged by your setting a limit, there may be something in his own head that he is having trouble dealing with.

I think I might step back a little bit now, and not put any new pressure on him. What you have done thus far you had to do. He and the other kids have gotten the message: They will be kept safe in their household, that you will do what it takes to the extent of your ability to do so, to keep the house safe and that they be and act safely.

I forgot. How was your son's conduct at school? It sounds like he holds it together at work. Good.

All of the stuff he was spewing at you on some level he must feel about himself. Has he been drug-tested? Could he be using harder drugs, like meth, for instance. What about what about a hair test? That way you would not have to confront him. But I do not understand just how these are done. (I bought multi drug screen tests online at Walmart, that test ten panels. We will do it tomorrow, but this is the dip strip kind.)

 

[mof]

You can buy tests that you send away and get actual lab reports...that are fool proof. Urine ones are ok...but if you truly want to know...you can get lab results at home.

I wondered too if he's doing something a bit more...but a mental issue seems to be underlying. Our son has never been confrontational or hateful to us or violent...we had a doctor say be cause that's his personality. So something is affecting his if that's not normal to him.

 

[Albatross]

Ugh, what an ordeal for you, Percy. So sorry you had to go through another barrage.

Of course there are no "winners" with such conversations, but I think you could not possibly have handled that any better than you did. I think that goes for son, for you and hubs, and for your younger children.

I was thinking the same thing as Copa; maybe now everyone can just kind of fall back for a bit.

But I also hear what SWOT is saying, and I think if he is ramping up in aggressive ways or you feel unsafe, then definitely he needs to be removed now, regardless of the consequences.

I too wonder if there is more than pot involved. Has something else happened to cause him to ramp up in the past couple of weeks, or is he just reacting to you and hubs enforcing the limits you set?

 

[Percy]

Counsellors son has seen say no mental health issues, no mental health diagnoses - just oppositional defiant disorder. I agree that there well could be something going on, but so far we have no insight or clarity into what. I don't know about harder drugs - I couldn't rule it out, but I have no reason or evidence to think he is. Nothing I have ever found when I searched his room was indicative of any other drugs. He does drink alcohol though.

He is very smart and very academically capable, but decided to stop going to high school last spring at end of junior year. Started cutting classes, leaving school (it is not open campus, so this was not ok) staying out all night on some nights. He started having issues with authority at school last spring, becoming oppositional and defiant there too, but not disruptive, (from age 15 it was just with family, from 16 it started to spill over into other areas.) He was fired from one job for smoking pot in basement at job. He works in restaurant now, where I think lots of the employees smoke a lot of weed. It seems sort of endemic to that industry, and isn't a very wholesome environment. He never really went back to school for senior year, and finally dropped out first week of October. He got his GED a few weeks later. (GED with high honors -- I seriously didn't even know there was such a thing.) But when he has taken PSAT, SAT etc. He scores in the 99th centile. It is ironic that we are still getting mailers from ivy league schools based on his test results, but he dropped out of high school.

He was previously drug tested by us, urine tests, until he started faking them, and nothing other than weed showed up. He faked them for us (we were naïve). He also faked some or all during his previous period of probation, last spring. He had one drug test 3 months ago as part of new period of probation (marijuana possession, and then shoplifting incidents, all handled in juvenile court/juvenile probation), that was likely real/his urine -- it showed high levels of marijuana, but nothing else.

I think he uses weed every day. Maybe more than once per day. He could be self medicating, but I don't know; I think it is pretty clear I have no insight into what is going on in his head right now. I have almost no knowledge of where he is, what he does, who he hangs with. I have many times in the past asked why he smokes pot and he says he likes it, it's not a big deal, it is better for you than alcohol, it is harmless, it is a plant, it is natural, it makes him feel good, once he said it helps him sleep.

 

[BusynMember]

We searched our daughters room too and fidnt find anything ominous.

Drinking makes those with alcohol sensitivity get violent sometimes. I stand by saying this is very bad for younger kids to see this in the house. I imagine they felt frightened and unsafe seeing brother shoving you and then literally walking free with no consequences to do this disruption again.

 

[BusynMember]

We searched our daughters room too and didnt find anything ominous. She was smart enough to stash the harder stuff other places. So we had no reason to think it was more than pot either. But it was. Very much so.

Drinking makes those with alcohol sensitivity get violent sometimes. I stand by saying this is very bad for younger kids to see this in the house. I imagine they felt frightened and unsafe seeing brother shoving you and then literally walking free with no consequences to do this disruption again. They need to know it will never happen again. But without other action...they know it will and they love and worry about you.

I have younger kids who saw their sister act out but frankly she was not nearly as difficult as your son
Still the cops would come around asking her questions and the younger kids were very scared. They were much younger than Sister and always loved their sister but they were much more relaxed after she left and the house became peaceful and serene.

And daughter did well once she went to Chicago to live with very stern older brother who would have tossed her out without a thought if she had lit up one cigarette or failed to work while paying rent to live in his basement. She decided to comply with him and even quit cigarettes and walked to and from her job in a Chicago winter.

How do your younger kids feel about the household chaos? Don't tell us. You don't have to. Just think about it. The question is for you.

You matter too and this is all killing you. If you do not have a therapist for YOU to help guide you, I hope you get one for YOU.

This forum is great but it can't replace real time neutral third party professional help from somebody who is not going through this and can offer non emotional, logical support. Al Anon is good too I used both.

Your younger kids will probably be uneasy or worse, depending on their age and personalities, as long as this son is there. What if you had a sibling like your son when you had been a kid?

I hope whatever you do works out. I am glad he is almost 18. That gives you more options.

 

[Percy]

I stand by saying this is very bad for younger kids to see this in the house. I imagine they felt frightened and unsafe seeing brother shoving you and then literally walking free with no consequences to do this disruption again.

To clarify, I probably did a poor job of explaining in previous posts. Son has never shoved me; last night shouldered me to keep me from coming into bathroom, put his elbow out so that I couldn't squeeze past him to get in bathroom. Younger kids have never seen him shove me or block me, or get physical in any way. And they didn't see what happened last night; that happened in the middle of the night last night, they were asleep, and then today during the blow-up, while he blocked the door, but no one could see any of it. They were not in sight of us, we were in a part of the house where they could not see us. But they could hear us, so younger kids heard the argument today.

There have never been any previous times when he has physically blocked me or shouldered/elbowed. He has sometimes towered over me in arguments. 90% of negative interactions with son occur when other kids are not at home, or discussions behind closed doors (and at a volume where they are not overheard).

I don't think my younger kids feel frightened. I think they feel anxious after today, and angry at son for causing chaos, and maybe upset that we "let him be like that" and wish I would "just make it stop". Although, several of them have said that his problems are his fault, his situation entirely of his making/choices he has made. To be clear, I don't think this is good for the other kids, but the environment in our house is not at a level that perhaps you perceive it to be.

IN general, son has never been violent or physical or destructive of property- no fights in school, not even physical fights with brothers or sisters (all my kids are close in age, so physical wrestling among my boys would not have been out of the ordinary, but it never happened). Never hit walls, never broke anything. He is gentle with little kids (used to be kind and playful with younger siblings (now has almost no interaction), used to be fun with little kids, used to coach a younger kids swim team, was a counselor at a summer camp, kind to animals, gentle with our many pets, doesn't hit walls or break things etc.) he IS highly oppositional, defiant, rebellious, and verbally confrontational and verbally abusive to me/husband to the nth degree, but physical aggression has not been part of the picture, until the limited circumstances of last night and today.

 

[Copabanana]

I think you have been clear in your posts about son's behavior. I did not assume there had been prior incidents.

never shoved me; last night shouldered me

Nor had anything happened that was physical until my son inadvertently broke my foot! When he was 17. I know he did not intend to. But it was so unsettling, upsetting to him that this happened--that he went to this extreme he was unable to talk about it for 11 years. He denied it happened.

By realizing what could happen--and taking steps to not go there--we protect our kids. I reacted to something. I could have prevented us going there, had I not over-reacted about something that really was trivial. You are not doing that. In fact, it is the reverse.

Never hit walls, never broke anything. He is gentle with little kids (used to be kind and playful with younger siblings (now has almost no interaction), used to be fun with little kids.... kind to animals, gentle with our many pets

My son was this way too. And he never changed...except he did. It started at 17. And got worse after 21 or 22.

That this happened for us, means nothing in your situation. But young people change in response to hormonal changes, maturational forces, developmental hurdles, and such can overwhelm their inherent personalities. That is one thing that makes it so hard for us, their parents. The person we knew and loved can seem to have gone away, leaving a hostile stranger in their place.

The only reassuring thing, or things, is that they can return; and for some reason they need to change in this way...for reasons we do not understand and thus we cannot stop them. The worrisome thing is if it has to do with drugs. If I were in your shoes I would want to know that. Because if it is drug-related there are specific things that you may be able to do now that you will not be able to do in 3 months.

 

[BusynMember]

But verbal aggression can be just as scary. Violence can be verbal and scary. I lived with verbally violent parents. They did not actually hit each other bit threw things and, more than that, screamed viciously and meanly at each other. Scary. By the time i was driving I tried not to be home as I didnt want to hear it. I DID NOT BRING FRIENDS OVER. I WAS TOO AFRAID A FIGHT WOULD ERUPT. I ENVIED my friends calmer families.

That was my memory of my home life.

That's partly why I think therapy would help. It would give you a third party definition of violence. I thought violence just meant physical contact but that is not true.

I am glad your son has kindness in him at certain times.

I think lots of verbal abuse spoken angrily is scary and devastating. And I don't think your child should block you or use his arm against you. To me that is violence that can ramp up. Blocking you is violent in my eyes.

To another, perhaps the oldest son is the most important. He isn't to me though. The other kids to me are his victim as are you. You dont deserve this.

And nobody's opinion is wrong because it's an opinion. That's why I feel a neutral party, a psyclogist, is helpful. They are not in the

My most difficult child did not take drugs and has never changed. He used to get in my face and swear at me or corner me and cuss and threaten or scream at me while bumping me with his chest.

I was divorced and scared of him as was my eight year old daughter. I finally made his father take him and he shoved my frail sickly ex sometimes. He, unlike daughter who once used drugs, never changed. My other kids want nothing to do with him and he could never live with me again. Not ever. No matter what. Fortunately he is two states away.

We all have our stories.

Hugs

 

[RN0441]

Percy

So sorry you have to endure this. I know how awful it is to not have your home peaceful but my problem child was our youngest so I didn't have younger ones to worry about but at that time our two older boys (both good kids) came home from college and lived with us to save money. They are out now. I often felt embarrassed because we could not control our son/their brother. It could have been a happy time with all five of us together for the last time but Difficult Child ruined it for everyone.

I think you are handling this beautifully and you are getting great advice here. I also have to believe that it is more than marijuana. If he is not mentally ill, there has to be more than marijuana going on here.

I also agree that him blocking you from coming into the bathroom is very wrong/abusive or whatever you want to call it and the way he talks to you is horrible!!! Our son never did either of these things but husband would have locked him out of the house and not cared if he had gotten that aggressive. I would have been the one worried about him though.

Taking the door off is a great idea. We have done that as well. I also saw a post someplace here today about a son having only a sleeping bag in his room and had to earn his "things" back which worked for them. When they are disrespecting you and your home like that, it's almost like you're at war.

Stay strong and we are here for you.

 

[Copabanana]

When they are disrespecting you and your home like that, it's almost like you're at war.

It is.

I for one have trouble de-escalating, even when my son looks like he is laying down his arms and making attempts to cede. In retrospect wish I had not contributed to this war mentality.

I think you are at a point Percy where you might think about consolidating your gains, and think about how you want to define "victory."

In the time you have been here on the forum I think your definition has changed. Your focus seems less upon changing your son's behaviors and more to asserting your own voice in terms of protecting your home, family and children, generally. In this you have one hundred percent control. In this you have been 100 percent successful. I think it may be time to re-assess what is next.

Your authority and legitimacy has been restored, and redefined as your voice. You may not ultimately be able to control his behavior, but you can keep reasserting your rules, your voice by continuing to remove all drugs and drug-related items, restating your rules, as you do so. Ad infinitum. In this you maintain your rules, whatever he chooses to do.

If you want you can think about if there is anything that you can effectively do to get him accurately drug tested. You can think through if there is anyway that you can get him evaluated for mental illness in these 3 months you have left to assert authority.

When you described the latest incident you described his behavior as being decompensated. Should this happen again you might consider calling the crisis unit of your county mental health department, for him to be evaluated. While the effects might be concerning to you, the message, I think, is this: self-control is required by adults, even more if you are angry. That is my expectation for you in this home and with your family. To the extent that you are unwilling to maintain control this will be defined as problematic. Your problem.

You by your own conduct demonstrate this capacity and value over and over again. Perhaps this is what angers him to such a degree.

 

[RN0441]

Percy

Does son know that IF he does not follow rules by the time he's 18 you will probably evict him? Just wondered if you've had that discussion and if you already mentioned it, I apologize (I actually work in between posts LOL).

I practically BEGGED our son to follow the rules. He just would not no matter what - when he was using - and he had no plan to stop using on his last (and final) binge with us.

He is now on his own - we supplement - but OMG we love our life now. It's all like a bad dream. He is doing better than ever now. To this day my son has not said: Mom if I knew you were going to send me away and not let me live at home, I WOULD have followed your rules.

I find that very interesting. But I'm not sure what it means.