One last thing, and I know you already know this, but I want to emphasize this because it can be intimidating when you sit down at an IEP meeting and there's 75 people on "their" side and just little ole' you on your son's side. You are a full member of the IEP team. Your opinion counts. You can also bring support people to an IEP mtg. I always took my very large binder, prominently labelled "IDEA REGS" and my other large binder, prominently labelled "IL STATE SPED REGS" (by this time, I had had to get rather assertive with them, and I didn't mind reminding them that I wasn't a pushover). I also clipped the most recent picture of whichever kid the IEP mtg was about to the front of the top binder, so that *I* would stay focused on the kid, not the personalities and the power struggles.
6 year old son keeps getting kicked out of school
- Thread starter kim75062
- Start date
kim75062
Active Member
I have been reading up on the laws here and I swear they wrote them purposefully to confuse parents into not wanting to read them. To bad for them I actually have an interest in law and understand it lol
I am in Texas more specifically in the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex. Homeschooling here is treated as a private school. Which comes with way more protections then it does rules and regulations. The district would not be off the hook at all if I withdrew him, in fact they get a certain percentage of funds that have to be specifically utilized for homeschool students in their district every year. I have no problem helping them spend those $$. They are also required to provide any and all Special Education services I request including speech and Occupational Therapist (OT) at their cost. If anything pulling him out of the physical building would be a bigger thorn in their side (which Makes it even harder for me not to do).
Texas also just passed a law that says a parent can request a camera be put in the classroom for Special Education students. Now it was put in to protect the kids that have severe disabilities, non verbal and just can't protect themselves or tell anyone what's going on. They really have no valid reasons to be able to deny the request but I'm sure will drag there feet on getting it done. They only have to send out notification to the other parents but do not require any consent because it's a public school so there is no expectation of privacy in a public place. The videos won't be realeased to me but have to become part of his permanent school records that they have to give me access to.
I worked in the medical field until last year (oh how I miss being around grownups) and have been advocating for my patients since I was 16 years old. Most of them had memory and behavior issues as well. I think that's helped me advocate for him. I told the counselor this morning that I want to know where they stand on their assessments and I want the reports asap. I also told her that I have contacted a Special Education attorney and they really doesn't want me to call my lawyer and have him take care of this from now on. I left out the part that the attorneys that I have found and contacted actually only represent the school districts not the parents lol
I do really appreciate all the help and advice on here and am taking it all in.
I think after yesterday with them not being able to handle him sitting on the floor being a rock and telling them how ridiculously incompetent they all are they won't be calling me today unless he starts a fire or does something equally obnoxious.
I am in Texas more specifically in the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex. Homeschooling here is treated as a private school. Which comes with way more protections then it does rules and regulations. The district would not be off the hook at all if I withdrew him, in fact they get a certain percentage of funds that have to be specifically utilized for homeschool students in their district every year. I have no problem helping them spend those $$. They are also required to provide any and all Special Education services I request including speech and Occupational Therapist (OT) at their cost. If anything pulling him out of the physical building would be a bigger thorn in their side (which Makes it even harder for me not to do).
Texas also just passed a law that says a parent can request a camera be put in the classroom for Special Education students. Now it was put in to protect the kids that have severe disabilities, non verbal and just can't protect themselves or tell anyone what's going on. They really have no valid reasons to be able to deny the request but I'm sure will drag there feet on getting it done. They only have to send out notification to the other parents but do not require any consent because it's a public school so there is no expectation of privacy in a public place. The videos won't be realeased to me but have to become part of his permanent school records that they have to give me access to.
I worked in the medical field until last year (oh how I miss being around grownups) and have been advocating for my patients since I was 16 years old. Most of them had memory and behavior issues as well. I think that's helped me advocate for him. I told the counselor this morning that I want to know where they stand on their assessments and I want the reports asap. I also told her that I have contacted a Special Education attorney and they really doesn't want me to call my lawyer and have him take care of this from now on. I left out the part that the attorneys that I have found and contacted actually only represent the school districts not the parents lol
I do really appreciate all the help and advice on here and am taking it all in.
I think after yesterday with them not being able to handle him sitting on the floor being a rock and telling them how ridiculously incompetent they all are they won't be calling me today unless he starts a fire or does something equally obnoxious.
kim75062
Active Member
I emailed the Special Education dept at a charter school here to ask if they where better equipped to deal with him there before I go through the whole admissions process just to set him up for failure. I hope they are but I'm sure they will let me know up front. I gave her the link to this post so she can read through what's been going on with him and get a good idea of the situation.
Seeing how the school hasn't called me yet today and I can't actually get a job because of it I'm going to walk around and catch Pokemon until schools out lol. 10 years ago I really couldn't of seen myself walking around catching pocket monsters as grown up. But I've been after these things since the 90s and I'm not missing my chance
Seeing how the school hasn't called me yet today and I can't actually get a job because of it I'm going to walk around and catch Pokemon until schools out lol. 10 years ago I really couldn't of seen myself walking around catching pocket monsters as grown up. But I've been after these things since the 90s and I'm not missing my chance
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
It's easier than that, at least in 2016. Don't fihht. Call your states Dept. Of Public Ed. They will hook you up with a free parent advocate and you don't need to learn the laws. The advocate knows them and will go to school for and with you and the nonsense will stop. I did it and it didn't take long to get my son help. Good help.
Warning: take it or leave it. School psychologists are not the best, brightest or most caring. Get a private neuropsycologist evaluation. He needs a diagnosis to get the most help and his behavior is certainly beyond ADHD. He is not being naughty or seeking attention. He needs help. Certainly you can see that he is very different from his peets. Kids do not act that way at that young age if they can do better.
I hope you try it this way first. It's much simpler and will save your son time. It's not a fight you can win alone if you can't study and fight full time. If you do it another way, I still wish you good luck. It's not about who gives the best info. It is about what works best in 2016 for uour son.Things are not as they once were. The Dept of public ed is there to serve you. The school district will give you a hard time and serve themselves. But they pretty much get their act together if the Dept. Of Public Ed calls them. In essence they are in charge of your school district and can make things happen that you cant.
Blessings!
Warning: take it or leave it. School psychologists are not the best, brightest or most caring. Get a private neuropsycologist evaluation. He needs a diagnosis to get the most help and his behavior is certainly beyond ADHD. He is not being naughty or seeking attention. He needs help. Certainly you can see that he is very different from his peets. Kids do not act that way at that young age if they can do better.
I hope you try it this way first. It's much simpler and will save your son time. It's not a fight you can win alone if you can't study and fight full time. If you do it another way, I still wish you good luck. It's not about who gives the best info. It is about what works best in 2016 for uour son.Things are not as they once were. The Dept of public ed is there to serve you. The school district will give you a hard time and serve themselves. But they pretty much get their act together if the Dept. Of Public Ed calls them. In essence they are in charge of your school district and can make things happen that you cant.
Blessings!
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Pam, darlin'. Would love to PM you but apparently you have that turned off. Remember that thread you started about 6 months ago, regarding volume? Look in the mirror.
Kim - sorry for the personal cr@p. My final thought for this board regarding life with a challenging kid is that knowledge is power. When you personally know medication side effects, interactions, recommended followup lab work... when you personally know sped law, both federal and state... when you know what a legal PWN looks like and what truly *good* IEP goals are, with methods for measuring progress and a step-wise progression to help your kid get there, and who is responsible for doing what... When you take personal responsibility for every aspect of your child's life - education, health, family - rather than depending on information relayed from others who do not have your child as their #1 priority, you will be a better advocate for your child. Every. Single. Day.
Kim, you're fantastic, and your kid will only benefit from your obvious motivation and excellent instincts.
Just a final personal opinion from a dinosaur.
Peace to all.
Kim - sorry for the personal cr@p. My final thought for this board regarding life with a challenging kid is that knowledge is power. When you personally know medication side effects, interactions, recommended followup lab work... when you personally know sped law, both federal and state... when you know what a legal PWN looks like and what truly *good* IEP goals are, with methods for measuring progress and a step-wise progression to help your kid get there, and who is responsible for doing what... When you take personal responsibility for every aspect of your child's life - education, health, family - rather than depending on information relayed from others who do not have your child as their #1 priority, you will be a better advocate for your child. Every. Single. Day.
Kim, you're fantastic, and your kid will only benefit from your obvious motivation and excellent instincts.
Just a final personal opinion from a dinosaur.
Peace to all.
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kim75062
Active Member
I called the dept of Ed yesterday and they didn't seem very concerned. The time line here for first time evaluations is 45 days not 30 and only from the day the parent signs consent. And all the days he's been absent or sent home early (8 ) so far this year at only a month in to school do not count toward the 45 days so now they technically have 53 days. If and when they miss that time line is when the Delt of Ed will do anything. I did also learn the district I'm in is a failing district by the test scores and most if not all elem schools are rated as F or D schools. I asked about a advocate and got a generic list with 5 contacts. 3 of which are no longer doing it and the other 2 are nationwide numbers and someone will get back to me someday....
kim75062
Active Member
Oh I also did find a special education attorney that represents parents. He is more then willing to take the case and help. I am less willing to fork over the retainer few but if it continues to go the way it is I will be angerly writing out a check for the first time in over 5 years. Good thing I didn't throw the check book away
kim75062
Active Member
I solved the mystery as to why they haven't been calling me.
But first I'll go to Thursday when they did call me because he flipped over about 10 desks and chairs in an empty classroom he was in. I went up and told him to flip them all back over and put them back where he found them and he did as he complained the entire time. What set this off was he was typing his spelling test on the computer with no problems and then they decided after he was done now he had to also write them on paper! These people can not be this dense but I guess they are. He was taken there to type because he wouldn't write so they decided to make him do the work twice?
My son has been spending his days in an empty classroom with just his para for this last week. That was supposed to be his safe calm place to complete his class work and then go back with the rest of his class. They have decided it's to much work to force him to go back to class and are letting him run around an empty room doing whatever he wants all day and no school work to speak of because he says he doesn't want to do it. I'm not sure why that choice was ever given to him or who's bright idea that was but I'm sure they can now see the error in that. I told them Friday that he is not to be In There u less he is completing work and then he must return to class. If he's going to be running wild with a babysitter all day there's no reason for him to be in school.
Ironically the truancy officer just called to inform me my son has missed 5 days of school un excused so far this year. I told him it should probably be more then that and it better be 0 by the end of the day. I told him call the principal and ask him why he is above putting suspensions into the computer system correctly and then the officer can email his boss at the district that I just got off the phone with to correct the problem. I probably could of been nicer to the poor guy but it's a Monday and it's more proff one hand doe the know what the other is doing in this school district.
But first I'll go to Thursday when they did call me because he flipped over about 10 desks and chairs in an empty classroom he was in. I went up and told him to flip them all back over and put them back where he found them and he did as he complained the entire time. What set this off was he was typing his spelling test on the computer with no problems and then they decided after he was done now he had to also write them on paper! These people can not be this dense but I guess they are. He was taken there to type because he wouldn't write so they decided to make him do the work twice?
My son has been spending his days in an empty classroom with just his para for this last week. That was supposed to be his safe calm place to complete his class work and then go back with the rest of his class. They have decided it's to much work to force him to go back to class and are letting him run around an empty room doing whatever he wants all day and no school work to speak of because he says he doesn't want to do it. I'm not sure why that choice was ever given to him or who's bright idea that was but I'm sure they can now see the error in that. I told them Friday that he is not to be In There u less he is completing work and then he must return to class. If he's going to be running wild with a babysitter all day there's no reason for him to be in school.
Ironically the truancy officer just called to inform me my son has missed 5 days of school un excused so far this year. I told him it should probably be more then that and it better be 0 by the end of the day. I told him call the principal and ask him why he is above putting suspensions into the computer system correctly and then the officer can email his boss at the district that I just got off the phone with to correct the problem. I probably could of been nicer to the poor guy but it's a Monday and it's more proff one hand doe the know what the other is doing in this school district.
kim75062
Active Member
Yesterday seemed like progress. He made it in his classroom all day, not without difficulty and a lot of support and interventions but he made it. Today complete failure by the school again. He asked first thing this AM to go to the courtyard to run around. (which is what he is supposed to do if he feels like he needs to get away or is going to do something obnoxious). He was told by the para and teacher "NO you need to do some work first". At some point they must have become psychologists and are now experts on his anxiety because they stated he was not anxious and was just being purely defiant. (insert head banging on the wall and smh emoji here) So when they failed to follow their plan and it all went horribly wrong and ended in him having a fit and kicking the para he gets sent to the office. The principal called me to tell me all about how he has in school suspension for the day and how we had discussed immediate consequences for his actions blah blah blah. I asked him how exactly it is his fault that they failed to follow their plan? And that i am now convinced that they where called out on secluding him in that classroom all day that their next best idea is to purposefully set him off to get kicked out of the classroom and seclude him in the front office. Needless to say hes home and Ive been on the phone with the district all morning trying to get someone with a brain to figure out they are going to do. And sent them an email stating until they can figure out how to properly educate him that he will be staying home with me where he will not be punished for their failure to provide him an appropriate education.
Malika
Well-Known Member
Kim, I don't live in the States and am not very au fait with how the school system works there but I can see from this (and other) threads that it is the same the world over... I have personally come to the conclusion that "mainstream", ordinary schools just cannot and will not cater for kids with behavioural special needs. In Europe we have schools for children with behavioural/emotional difficulties and I have become convinced that these are better for our "different" children. I don't think your son's school is ever going to get it, or any other similar school, and in your place I would be thinking of other options.
Of course I am not where you are - this is just my view from the outside.
Of course I am not where you are - this is just my view from the outside.
Malika
Well-Known Member
So do you not have in the States the equivalent of what they call SEMH schools in the UK ( = social, emotional and mental health) or ITEPs ( = educational, therapeutic centres) in France as an alternative to ordinary schools? They have different sorts of curriculums, much more practically based, with very small class sizes. As I say, I have decided that this is the only viable option for my own son because he now cannot manage ordinary school - too big classes, he cannot deal with sitting down all day learning largely boring things that he does not understand (despite his intelligence).
They are nominally for children with behavioural problems - some are poorly run with disruptive classes and lots of violence, swearing, etc but some are excellent, achieving real turnarounds in some kids behaviour and prospects. Finally they are understood and accepted as they are rather than constantly in trouble and punished for being as they are. Of course they are full of kids with diagnoses of this and that, and a lot of ADHD.
Do these not exist in the States?
They are nominally for children with behavioural problems - some are poorly run with disruptive classes and lots of violence, swearing, etc but some are excellent, achieving real turnarounds in some kids behaviour and prospects. Finally they are understood and accepted as they are rather than constantly in trouble and punished for being as they are. Of course they are full of kids with diagnoses of this and that, and a lot of ADHD.
Do these not exist in the States?
BloodiedButUnbowed
Well-Known Member
Forgive me if you've already given this info and I just missed it. Has your son ever been in therapy? I realize he is very young yet. Is this his first experience with school? If not, did this happen before?
I have worked in charter schools and I am a special education teacher. Charters are very different in their philosophies and educational models. Too many use a one size fits all approach that does not work for any child, let alone those with special needs. I would be wary of enrolling your child in a charter school without doing "extreme vetting" first. At minimum, I would speak to the principal of the school, and ask to observe classrooms before making any decisions about enrolling him elsewhere.
But don't disclose too much; some charter schools have told parents of special needs students that "they don't have" special education. Charter schools take government money, therefore, they are required to provide special education services. However, your guy doesn't have an IEP yet so that would not be a factor. Still, advertising to a principal that your son is having issues at his current school wouldn't be to your advantage. I would not mention it. You can say instead that you are looking for a positive and orderly environment and you're not happy with how your son's current school is doing things.
Based on the behaviors you describe, I doubt a private school would be a good fit for your son. Most have very little tolerance for any type of behavior issue and prefer to expel the student. And since they do not take public money from the gvt they are not bound by IDEA.
If you have requested an evaluation in writing, you and your son are already protected under IDEA and will continue to be until the evaluations are complete. You can definitely file complaints with the state board of ed if you feel this is appropriate.
Keep us posted.
I have worked in charter schools and I am a special education teacher. Charters are very different in their philosophies and educational models. Too many use a one size fits all approach that does not work for any child, let alone those with special needs. I would be wary of enrolling your child in a charter school without doing "extreme vetting" first. At minimum, I would speak to the principal of the school, and ask to observe classrooms before making any decisions about enrolling him elsewhere.
But don't disclose too much; some charter schools have told parents of special needs students that "they don't have" special education. Charter schools take government money, therefore, they are required to provide special education services. However, your guy doesn't have an IEP yet so that would not be a factor. Still, advertising to a principal that your son is having issues at his current school wouldn't be to your advantage. I would not mention it. You can say instead that you are looking for a positive and orderly environment and you're not happy with how your son's current school is doing things.
Based on the behaviors you describe, I doubt a private school would be a good fit for your son. Most have very little tolerance for any type of behavior issue and prefer to expel the student. And since they do not take public money from the gvt they are not bound by IDEA.
If you have requested an evaluation in writing, you and your son are already protected under IDEA and will continue to be until the evaluations are complete. You can definitely file complaints with the state board of ed if you feel this is appropriate.
Keep us posted.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
There are special educational classes for differently wired kids here. I don.t know of actual schools in the U.S. until high school where we do have alternative schools. I have a close friend who works in what is called behavioral classroom. she has done it for almost for twenty years. These are pre teens snd young teens. she loves doing it, but is not convinced the kids get much help there. she has been attacked a few times...the classroom is in a room in a regular school. There is a stigma.
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kim75062
Active Member
No he has not been in therapy.
The Special Education class in the school itself would not benefit my son. There are about 6 or 7 kids in the class and they are truly special needs children. Most are non verbal or have very little words. Half of them are in diapers etc. The rest of the kids deemed special needs are mainstreamed with as little supports as possible to keep them functioning. The kids that cant function with these supports that are "behavior Problems" usually get sent to a different school here called an alternative placement school. He is still to young to go there, they do not start excepting kids until they are 7 there. And I have talked to a few people at the school about the place and they said to do whatever I can to NOT get him placed there if they ever decide to try. The kids that go there are severely challenged and are getting forced into compliance instead of helped to build the skills to choose compliance on their own.
The Special Education class in the school itself would not benefit my son. There are about 6 or 7 kids in the class and they are truly special needs children. Most are non verbal or have very little words. Half of them are in diapers etc. The rest of the kids deemed special needs are mainstreamed with as little supports as possible to keep them functioning. The kids that cant function with these supports that are "behavior Problems" usually get sent to a different school here called an alternative placement school. He is still to young to go there, they do not start excepting kids until they are 7 there. And I have talked to a few people at the school about the place and they said to do whatever I can to NOT get him placed there if they ever decide to try. The kids that go there are severely challenged and are getting forced into compliance instead of helped to build the skills to choose compliance on their own.
HMBgal
Well-Known Member
Hi Malika, yes the do exist, and in California there are different iterations of it. We have a couple in the district at which I work that are acceptable. The kids are usually at or very close to grade level academically, but they have behavioral and social issues that make it hard for them and their classmates in a general ed setting.
The one that my grandson's previous school district recommended he attend is a county program for this year, which usually serves the children that everyone has pretty much given up on. Not a good fit, although sometimes I wonder if he would be better off there because he would be far and away the best behaved kid there, (until he learned some really cool new tricks). Those kids have done some pretty serious stuff and most have been hospitalized at one time or another. And these are young kids. Neurological differences that result in behaviors stigmatize kids so much. Everyone can see a child in a wheelchair and not be mad. So many people (and educators and administrators) see "our" kids and they are automatically judging, fearful, and mad at them. It's heartbreaking.
kim75062
Active Member
I am in Texas and this state is known to have very little patience or resources available for kids with special needs. There is a HUGE rise in parents pulling these kids out of public schools to home school because the school is lacking so badly. The one thing they do have going for them here is the online public schools. these kids get to get to be in the public school system but do all of their classwork from home. Its a good in between for parents that are not capable of homeschooling and kids that are not capable of being in a traditional classroom. They still get all the extra services like PT, Occupational Therapist (OT) and speech at no cost to the parents. For the parents theres no guessing on making lesson plans and progress because its all out of your hands. They have virtual classrooms with web cam sessions and access to their teacher when ever they need it. This would be the perfect solution for my son at this time but they don't allow online public school in Texas until 3rd grade Until then you would have to go the private route and can pay for the same course work etc. but its about 5k a year. I did email one of the public school providers to see if my son can test into the 3rd grade and if they would allow it but so far no response and they probably think Im nuts lol
Until then you would have to go the private route and can pay for the same course work etc. but its about 5k a year. I did email one of the public school providers to see if my son can test into the 3rd grade and if they would allow it but so far no response and they probably think Im nuts lolBusynMember
Well-Known Member
Ksm, same Wisconsin. I met a few home school parents who wereally being bullied to put their kids on medication so they pulled them out. That was before online school. Online s hool is a good option. If you work, you can have your child do his work when you get home. There is no time schedile. Same with any sort of homeschool. You can start at 5, not 9. And take breaks.
