6 year old son keeps getting kicked out of school
- Thread starter kim75062
- Start date
BloodiedButUnbowed
Well-Known Member
Can you do research as to what public school would be a better fit for your son and then move there?
BloodiedButUnbowed
Well-Known Member
Can YOU move so that he will be zoned into a better school? I realize this may not be a possibility for you, but some families do this.
Additionally, although you are getting a lot of support here for your son's issues being the school's fault in some way, please don't lose sight of the fact that your son's behavior is NOT normal. Even if he does receive an IEP, an IEP is not a magic bullet by any means, and schools cannot "fix" a child.
My personal opinion is that your son needs some therapy. It really isn't normal, even if a child is in a school environment that is less than perfect or ideal for that child's learning style (and we ALL have learning styles), for him to act as he does. It sounds from what you describe that the autism spectrum could be a possibiity however, if he only displays the behavior at school and not at home, that might not be the case. Autism usually doesn't show up in only one place.
Best of luck.
Additionally, although you are getting a lot of support here for your son's issues being the school's fault in some way, please don't lose sight of the fact that your son's behavior is NOT normal. Even if he does receive an IEP, an IEP is not a magic bullet by any means, and schools cannot "fix" a child.
My personal opinion is that your son needs some therapy. It really isn't normal, even if a child is in a school environment that is less than perfect or ideal for that child's learning style (and we ALL have learning styles), for him to act as he does. It sounds from what you describe that the autism spectrum could be a possibiity however, if he only displays the behavior at school and not at home, that might not be the case. Autism usually doesn't show up in only one place.
Best of luck.
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I think the focus should be on private diagnosis (schools are not the best, even their psychologists) and help in my opinion should focus on treating the reason for this behavior, not school. No school setting will be able to keep a child with these extreme behaviors from getting hurt. Even with a para. He can run from a para or kick the para then run. Your child is not behaving like a typicsl kid snd the answers di not lie with school or the setting.
I wish you luck in helping figure out and help your child. Take care!
I wish you luck in helping figure out and help your child. Take care!
kim75062
Active Member
Yes I plan to move out of this district by summer next year. I still have a lease until summer that I will lose a lot of money on if I break it. And my oldest is a senior and middle child is in the last year of middle school so moving the end of this school year is good timing for all. We are looking to buy and have checked out 2 different school districts with much better Special Education depts. this is the first time in probably 10 years we have been renters and it's driving me crazy.
As for private evaluations I'm still waiting for the appointment dates. The lssp here is newer and inexperienced but she does have a masters degree so she should be able to help with a diagnosis. I know that the results won't be a magical solution that makes his problems go away. All I'm hoping for a better understanding of what the problem is so we can come up with interventions that might actually work.
Today is parent teacher conference day so the kids have the day off. I emailed the teacher after school yesterday letting her know his form was still in his backpack yesterday(been in there filled out since Monday night) and wanted to know if she had any times left. She replied a few hours later saying that there's going to be a meeting for his test results next week anyway. She didn't see the need for a conference before that but if I really think it's nessacery then she'll let me know what times she has left today. I can't imagine how a conference with her and getting her point of view on what's happening in her classroom with him would be a waste of time but I guess to her it is? I wanted that time to ask her if she had ideas on building a better teacher/student relationship with her. He won't run off from the counsler or the new assistant principal. They are the only 2 people there that he has ever felt safe enough with to break down and cry in front of instead of hitting and running off. But I'm thinking now that's probably going to be a dead end with this teacher anyway.
As for private evaluations I'm still waiting for the appointment dates. The lssp here is newer and inexperienced but she does have a masters degree so she should be able to help with a diagnosis. I know that the results won't be a magical solution that makes his problems go away. All I'm hoping for a better understanding of what the problem is so we can come up with interventions that might actually work.
Today is parent teacher conference day so the kids have the day off. I emailed the teacher after school yesterday letting her know his form was still in his backpack yesterday(been in there filled out since Monday night) and wanted to know if she had any times left. She replied a few hours later saying that there's going to be a meeting for his test results next week anyway. She didn't see the need for a conference before that but if I really think it's nessacery then she'll let me know what times she has left today. I can't imagine how a conference with her and getting her point of view on what's happening in her classroom with him would be a waste of time but I guess to her it is? I wanted that time to ask her if she had ideas on building a better teacher/student relationship with her. He won't run off from the counsler or the new assistant principal. They are the only 2 people there that he has ever felt safe enough with to break down and cry in front of instead of hitting and running off. But I'm thinking now that's probably going to be a dead end with this teacher anyway.
SoCalMomOf2
New Member
Hi Kim,
Your son sounds like he's on the same road that my son is on right now, aside from my son having meltdowns at home at well. If I had advice, I would love to offer it to you, but I am here seeking answers as well. I just want you to know that I understand how you are feeling and I hope that we are both able to find something that works for our boys.
Also, I had to be on a long waiting list for assistance. It can be extremely frustrating. (Well at least I am/was).
Be careful pushing him ahead 2 grades. My brother skipped 2 grades and it ended up in disaster. He graduated high school 2 mos after his 16th birthday and then went into college. At 16 he could NOT handle it. My parents had to be super strict and even that didn't help. He finally moved into a dorm, gambled and drank day and night and flunked out of college. Or at least flunked badly enough that our parents wouldn't pay for it and asked him to leave shortly after his 18th birthday. He went to the Army, made it for 2 years but even that didn't help him mature. He really gave my parents a LOT of problems mostly because he just wasn't ready to be in control of his life the way you are after high school. So think hard about enrolling him in 3rd grade as a 6yo. Academics are not everything, and if he goes into school at any time, he will be the youngest and WILL be bullied. It is almost inevitable. I have mixed feelings on skipping 1 year, but 2 is just too much developmentally. He may be ready for the academics, but he won't cope with the social stuff well.
Fyi, I hate Texas schools. From people I know who moved because of the schools, they seem to go out of their way to skirt around sp ed law and to avoid giving services even after agreeing to them in IEPs. It is often a drawn out and costly battle for the parents and the kids are the ones who lose. We turned down excellent job opportunities in TX because of the schools, for whatever that is worth. Learn Sped law and become vocal about making them follow every part of it. Esp the part about deadlines, measurable goals and following the IEP.
Fyi, I hate Texas schools. From people I know who moved because of the schools, they seem to go out of their way to skirt around sp ed law and to avoid giving services even after agreeing to them in IEPs. It is often a drawn out and costly battle for the parents and the kids are the ones who lose. We turned down excellent job opportunities in TX because of the schools, for whatever that is worth. Learn Sped law and become vocal about making them follow every part of it. Esp the part about deadlines, measurable goals and following the IEP.
kim75062
Active Member
The school refused to skip him any grade. They said the same thing about maturity etc. which does make sense in the long run but for right in this moment I time it would of been a great solution for him. They know he can handle the academics but where to afraid of having him come back to the school and then having to deal with his behaviors as a 3rd grader.
This last week has been just as bad as it's been going for him. Daily phone calls to come get him, different paras almost everyday that don't know him, school staff not following his plan etc. he threw a chair Tuesday in the classroom out of frustration because when he asks for anything to help cope (going outside or his stress toys) they tell him no do your work so he's quit asking. I've asked over and over to try another school and get no where.
The lssp called me yesterday and is just as frustrated with the school as I am with them not following recommendations. She did tell me her report is done and she's sending me a copy of it today. She said he does not meet the criteria for autism. She went with a diagnosis of anxiety and sensory processing disorder (SPD). And also included the original adhd diagnosis he had from his regular doctor last year. She believes all his problems are coming from the anxiety and sensory processing disorder (SPD) but included the adhd diagnosis because the school understands how to deal with interventions for that. A lot of them are the same as sensory processing disorder (SPD). She's also making the recommendation that they give him higher level work so that he actually wants to do it. Right now he struggles with and hates writing, to him writing his abcs is waste of his time because he already knows them, same with 3 letter spelling words.
This last week has been just as bad as it's been going for him. Daily phone calls to come get him, different paras almost everyday that don't know him, school staff not following his plan etc. he threw a chair Tuesday in the classroom out of frustration because when he asks for anything to help cope (going outside or his stress toys) they tell him no do your work so he's quit asking. I've asked over and over to try another school and get no where.
The lssp called me yesterday and is just as frustrated with the school as I am with them not following recommendations. She did tell me her report is done and she's sending me a copy of it today. She said he does not meet the criteria for autism. She went with a diagnosis of anxiety and sensory processing disorder (SPD). And also included the original adhd diagnosis he had from his regular doctor last year. She believes all his problems are coming from the anxiety and sensory processing disorder (SPD) but included the adhd diagnosis because the school understands how to deal with interventions for that. A lot of them are the same as sensory processing disorder (SPD). She's also making the recommendation that they give him higher level work so that he actually wants to do it. Right now he struggles with and hates writing, to him writing his abcs is waste of his time because he already knows them, same with 3 letter spelling words.
kim75062
Active Member
I agree with treating the reasons for these extreme behaviors but how could the answers not lie with the school or the school setting? He only has these behaviors when hes in the school.
kim75062
Active Member
I'm reading and absorbing as much as I can at this point about Special Education laws. I spend my day on the internet researching and reading way to help him and waiting for the phone to ring to come get him. I have found 2 very good school districts for kids with special needs so far in the DFW area. I have been looking at houses in that area now, it will add a longer drive for the hubby to work and the houses cost a little more but it seems like its going to be worth it.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I think the reasons are because he is not home and has to be in a busy structured environment. My guess is that he would the same in any unfamiliar setting with expectations of him and if you were not there. I don't believe that more work or bumping him up out of his grade level will help. A lot of kids are bored at school. Your son is not behaving like your typical child. My layman's guess is more likely on the autism spectrum than ADHD. But get your diagnosis and don't trust educators to be able to diagnose him. They don't have the training. Nor do I.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
Basically, TX schools are more interested in getting creationism into textbooks that go out to the entire country, school sports, and whitewashing history, than they are in teaching ALL students to the highest level possible.
kim75062
Active Member
I have gone to the school 3 times today for him because he was being non compliant etc. each time I got there he went right back to class. I told them they have to learn to deal with his behavior without calling me every time he tells them no.
They left out the important part of his day where this morning (before I got there the first time) that he bolted from the para and made it outside of the school again to the parking lot of the building next door. I only found out because it was wrote in his daily behavior log. This was after school at 345 when I got his folder to check for homework. I called the school and no one called me back an hour later. So I called the district and they are now going to let me know what other school he can transfer into.
Right after that phone call the principal called me back. Telling me he instructed his staff that he would call me about the incident and not to tell me! Then tried to down play it saying there was another teacher outside and they had him back in the school within seconds and he never made it that far away. So either the principals lying or the paras lying. Either way I trust none of them.
They left out the important part of his day where this morning (before I got there the first time) that he bolted from the para and made it outside of the school again to the parking lot of the building next door. I only found out because it was wrote in his daily behavior log. This was after school at 345 when I got his folder to check for homework. I called the school and no one called me back an hour later. So I called the district and they are now going to let me know what other school he can transfer into.
Right after that phone call the principal called me back. Telling me he instructed his staff that he would call me about the incident and not to tell me! Then tried to down play it saying there was another teacher outside and they had him back in the school within seconds and he never made it that far away. So either the principals lying or the paras lying. Either way I trust none of them.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
They can't handle him. It isn't their fault. He needs more help than they can give...relying on school to change things is not realistic. I mean this gently.
kim75062
Active Member
I agree they can not handle him and its not their fault they don't have the training to do it. Not using common sense though is their fault. Ex. child runs off from adults to escape the noise in gym, so lets take him outside (to get to the gym) and not hold his hand because he says "I promise I wont run off".(I said stop taking him to the gym) Child cant sit still so lets try to force him to sit through a 20 min lesson instead of letting in pace in the back of the classroom so he has free movement and is listening. Or he gets angry and frustrated at his own art work and throws crayons "violently" (did not hit or aim or try to hit anyone with them) so we restrain him and force him to the front office in front of all his peers. Lying to me or omitting potentially dangerous situations about what happens with my son is their fault. Its been nothing but a continuous build up of bad decisions by the administration at this school that I really think has lead to these behavior problems getting worse instead of better.
Had they followed their own plan consistently over the last few weeks who knows where we would be today. The first week (with the old para) the plan went in place he made huge progress. He was no longer running out of the class but asking to go to the courtyard to run for a few mins and then would return to class without incident most times. He was asking to go 4-5 times a day but I'm sure the frequency would of lessened with more time. He was telling them "I feel really nervous" or "I need to get away from here" instead of darting out the door. When they listened to him on how he was feeling at the time and removed him from the situation there was no more meltdowns and aggression because he didn't feel trapped anymore. Now we are back to square one where he doesn't say anything to anyone and lets it build up until he explodes because he says "no one listens to me anyway".
I wish I could think of another place that I could send him that was structured and not "fun" to see if he reacts differently to a different setting. But really the only place like a school is school.
Had they followed their own plan consistently over the last few weeks who knows where we would be today. The first week (with the old para) the plan went in place he made huge progress. He was no longer running out of the class but asking to go to the courtyard to run for a few mins and then would return to class without incident most times. He was asking to go 4-5 times a day but I'm sure the frequency would of lessened with more time. He was telling them "I feel really nervous" or "I need to get away from here" instead of darting out the door. When they listened to him on how he was feeling at the time and removed him from the situation there was no more meltdowns and aggression because he didn't feel trapped anymore. Now we are back to square one where he doesn't say anything to anyone and lets it build up until he explodes because he says "no one listens to me anyway".
I wish I could think of another place that I could send him that was structured and not "fun" to see if he reacts differently to a different setting. But really the only place like a school is school.
jetsam
Active Member
hi kim, I was wondering if they could do a 6-1-1 class for him? I was a crisis intervention counselor in the districts special education school . There were 6 students, 1 teacher, one school aide , and myself. (hence 6-1-1) My job was explicitly what you need. I was there in case a child was having difficulty in the classroom..I would get the child out of the class (Averting any meltdown) go to playground, gym, places they could safely exert energy as well as try to verbally communicate to try and find out what their anxiety at the moment was. I would get get them back into working mode and then we would return to the classroom. If i wasn't able to get anywhere with the student i would take them to either the social worker or the school psychiatrist. This was not a regular school but a special education school. classwork was individualized the students ability. I am in N.Y. and I wondered if you had anything like that by You. It worked well for a lot of students...not all but a lot of them. I agree knowing a diagnosis is really needed to be able to help in the best way possible.
kim75062
Active Member
not that I know of here. Ive asked but at his age there doesn't seem to be much in the way of resources at the public schools. I'm waiting for the district to call me with a placement in a different school. I don't know if it will help or make it worse but its worth a try. If that fails he will be home schooled again this year and we will repeat this process again next fall.
I think you have a good handle on this and are getting one on sped law. I think the school has easily exceeded their 10 days of suspension if every day they send him home is counted, as legally it IS counted. If you can find a lawyer willing to help you, you likely have a VERY good case against the school. We got caught in that "we cannot evaluate him ov er the summer" and later I used that to help leverage our district into an agreement that anything any of my kids needed, my kids got. Of course they were trying to get me to not join a class action suit against my oldest son's sped teacher and the school and a I had her dead to rights for changing my son's IEP ON PAPER and never telling me or getting my signature - forging my signature. The woman was horrible and I had proof she did other things too, but thhose two things were the big ones for our case. THe summer does count in the amount of time to evaluate, and in fact they did testing for my son over the summer but said the days of summer break, and the weekends, didn't count in their time limits. That is ALLLLLLLL bovine excrement legally but most districts think parents don't know it or cannot make them follow it. Until you get an attorney or advocate involved.
Texas really has a horrible record for special education. I even know a family that had the school force medications on every boy in the school to make them easier to handle. This was back in the early 90's and we know a family who lived in that district and moved out of state because of it. After they moved they helped get a class action suit going and proved that the district literally put every single boy in every grade on medications or expelled them because medications made them easier to handle. It was just awful.
I hope the other school you are offered is more willing to help. PLEASE get your son to a private Occupational Therapist ASAP. The good ones are truly amazing and the things they do actually change how your child will feel about himself. During a 30 min session my son went from telling me he was stupid to actually feeling good about himself - it was NOT medication induced and he truly felt so much better about himself. Part of that is brushing therapy, also called Wilbarger Protocol, which is incredible. It is something that you MUST learn from the Occupational Therapist (OT), but you do with your child. You brush his skin in a specified order, followed by joint compression done in a certain order. It seems simple, but has incredible results. It can be done on bare skin or over clothing, and most kids either like it or don't mind it. Why is this incredible? First, if you are not properly trained, it can cause some real problems. If done correctly, it is proven to rewire the brain to handle sensory input in a better way. Yes, I said rewire the brain. Studies have shown that it changes how the brain handles sensory input!!! And this is without medication - so nothing to alter your son's mood or personality except gentle brushing with a soft brush (a surgical scrub brush without soap is generally used - I used to buy them by the dozen online because one of my kids would sleep with his brush and kept losing it under his bed, lol).
As for stuff to fidget with, I found that party supply stores were usually the cheapest place to find new things and to replace ones that were worn out or taken by other kids or lost by my kid. They also had the best selection. Often the Occupational Therapist (OT) supply places had the same things but were more expensive. None of my kids could ever pay attention in a classroom without something to fidget with. They had a few teachers who tried to tell them they couldn't have them (Items small enough to fit in a pocket), but after 2-3 days of one of my kids without a fidget, suddenly the fidgets were asked for. I never once asked for specifics of what the kids DID during those fidget free days, but I had a pretty good idea that the class had a hard time functioning, and I found it all pretty funny to be honest.
I know medication is a hard subject, and every parent has to figure out their own right answer. I can say that stimulants, given for ADHD, are fast in and fast out. This means that you will know with the first couple of doses whether they will work, and they will be out of your son's system in just a few hours, no lingering to cause problems. They are not side effect free, no medication is, but for people with adhd they can be a lifeline. Years ago, back in the dark ages of the 70's, my father used to pour Coke or coffee into students with ADHD because none of his students could afford medications. He taught shop in what was called a 'ghetto' school back then. It worked but not as well as medications would have. My son started taking adderall at age 7 on a Saturday. He took it an hour before a soccer game. It was the best game he had up to that point - every parent on the team AND his coach told us how amazing he did during the game and he scored 2 goals, more than in 2 years worth of games to that point! He is now 25 and is still on adhd medications, though he takes one that is not a stimulant now. Contrary to popular opinion, studies have proven that taking stimulants for adhd does not lead to drug use, esp illegal drug use, in later years. My son is totally against illegal drugs and rarely even drinks alcohol. I actually shudder to think of where my son would be without medications, if he even would be alive. He was always so hard on himself that he might have harmed himself without medications to help him. Not all the medications we tried were good, and he still needs medications, but I truly think they helped more than they harmed.
This is MY experience with medications. It may not be the same for you, I hope it isn't because I hope your son never gets as depressed as my son can get. But medications are something to think about when you get into the various experts who you have appointments with. They may or may not be right for your child right now, but they are something to think about. I will say that I am glad we did the stimulants before we went to non-stimulant medications for adhd because the medications came out of his system so fast. I cannot imagine putting him on some of those medications at so young an age.
Texas really has a horrible record for special education. I even know a family that had the school force medications on every boy in the school to make them easier to handle. This was back in the early 90's and we know a family who lived in that district and moved out of state because of it. After they moved they helped get a class action suit going and proved that the district literally put every single boy in every grade on medications or expelled them because medications made them easier to handle. It was just awful.
I hope the other school you are offered is more willing to help. PLEASE get your son to a private Occupational Therapist ASAP. The good ones are truly amazing and the things they do actually change how your child will feel about himself. During a 30 min session my son went from telling me he was stupid to actually feeling good about himself - it was NOT medication induced and he truly felt so much better about himself. Part of that is brushing therapy, also called Wilbarger Protocol, which is incredible. It is something that you MUST learn from the Occupational Therapist (OT), but you do with your child. You brush his skin in a specified order, followed by joint compression done in a certain order. It seems simple, but has incredible results. It can be done on bare skin or over clothing, and most kids either like it or don't mind it. Why is this incredible? First, if you are not properly trained, it can cause some real problems. If done correctly, it is proven to rewire the brain to handle sensory input in a better way. Yes, I said rewire the brain. Studies have shown that it changes how the brain handles sensory input!!! And this is without medication - so nothing to alter your son's mood or personality except gentle brushing with a soft brush (a surgical scrub brush without soap is generally used - I used to buy them by the dozen online because one of my kids would sleep with his brush and kept losing it under his bed, lol).
As for stuff to fidget with, I found that party supply stores were usually the cheapest place to find new things and to replace ones that were worn out or taken by other kids or lost by my kid. They also had the best selection. Often the Occupational Therapist (OT) supply places had the same things but were more expensive. None of my kids could ever pay attention in a classroom without something to fidget with. They had a few teachers who tried to tell them they couldn't have them (Items small enough to fit in a pocket), but after 2-3 days of one of my kids without a fidget, suddenly the fidgets were asked for. I never once asked for specifics of what the kids DID during those fidget free days, but I had a pretty good idea that the class had a hard time functioning, and I found it all pretty funny to be honest.
I know medication is a hard subject, and every parent has to figure out their own right answer. I can say that stimulants, given for ADHD, are fast in and fast out. This means that you will know with the first couple of doses whether they will work, and they will be out of your son's system in just a few hours, no lingering to cause problems. They are not side effect free, no medication is, but for people with adhd they can be a lifeline. Years ago, back in the dark ages of the 70's, my father used to pour Coke or coffee into students with ADHD because none of his students could afford medications. He taught shop in what was called a 'ghetto' school back then. It worked but not as well as medications would have. My son started taking adderall at age 7 on a Saturday. He took it an hour before a soccer game. It was the best game he had up to that point - every parent on the team AND his coach told us how amazing he did during the game and he scored 2 goals, more than in 2 years worth of games to that point! He is now 25 and is still on adhd medications, though he takes one that is not a stimulant now. Contrary to popular opinion, studies have proven that taking stimulants for adhd does not lead to drug use, esp illegal drug use, in later years. My son is totally against illegal drugs and rarely even drinks alcohol. I actually shudder to think of where my son would be without medications, if he even would be alive. He was always so hard on himself that he might have harmed himself without medications to help him. Not all the medications we tried were good, and he still needs medications, but I truly think they helped more than they harmed.
This is MY experience with medications. It may not be the same for you, I hope it isn't because I hope your son never gets as depressed as my son can get. But medications are something to think about when you get into the various experts who you have appointments with. They may or may not be right for your child right now, but they are something to think about. I will say that I am glad we did the stimulants before we went to non-stimulant medications for adhd because the medications came out of his system so fast. I cannot imagine putting him on some of those medications at so young an age.
