Dieting question Copa or others...Keto with fasting

Elsi

Well-Known Member
SWOT if you can sneak a smoothy in there with greens and berries it's a great head start on getting your veggies in for the day! Blueberries I think are the lowest sugar option among the berries. Spinach seems to have the least noticeable taste of the leafy greens. But I crave the greens with my first meal now - it clears my head. I'm glad the keto works well for you!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Wahls Protocol from Dr. Terry Wahls. It is closer to paleo than keto.
This sounds fabulous Elsi. I have all kinds of petty little questions about how you do this. It sounds SOOO healthy. I would love to do it and I think I need it. My quotes got fouled up so I will start where I start.
on various medications, I put on 50 pounds in 6 months.
How very hard.
40 pounds has come back off pretty naturally over the last year
Fantastic. I am whining here: why oh why is it so hard for me to lose weight. I mean. I pound a month. And I am trying like crazy. Even with the Keto my weight has stabilized. I am 149 which is fine for my height (I am 5'6") but I have it in my head I want to get back to 129 or at worst 139. My body does not want to budge. I am in a kind of unstable agreement that I can tolerate the 149 and let my body decide to lose the weight based upon activity, if I begin to move again. But I am not a happy camper. I want to do something RADICAL to make those pounds LEAVE. I am such a fruitcake I think maybe it is my hair.
So she got obsessed with losing ‘that last ten pounds’. And that has led to some very unhealthy behaviors.
But it’s been heartbreaking to see how much her self esteem is tied into weight and weight loss.
Like me. I am not bulimic but I am extremely invested in CONTROLLING this weight. I told the nutritionist that my life was not living if I was fat. That being thin was more important than living. (?!!!?) On some level I feel like this. What???? This is either a tremendous self-esteem issue or a complete estrangement from myself. Even I get that.

So what is your daughter doing now? Is she on the Wahl's?
It’s really simplified my eating, which I really like.
That is how I feel about what I am doing.
Funny how we are all different.
I think what I’ve learned more than anything is that we all have individual biochemistry and neurology.
First let me speak to the comment that our bodies are different and crave different nutritional requirements. About 20 years ago I had an acquaintance who was obese. She went to a doctor who was a nutritional doctor not for weight loss, per se, and was typed nutritionally. I forget what she was in terms of type but the diet she was put on, was largely vegetables and lower protein. I was curious so I went.
There were all kinds of tests. Blood tests, urinalysis. And body examination and observation. Looking at eyes, skin, posture, questions, histories, etc. And I turned out a completely different type with a different diet. The focus had been on metabolism and the types were metabolic types. My type I remember was fast oxidizer. There were 3 others. (If you google nutritional typing, or fast oxidizer you will find the system as it is still used.) But remember.

I was told this: no potatoes, no wheat, no rice, no pasta. Cook my vegetables, instead of salads. I could eats nuts, cheese. Very limited fruit but I could eat small amounts of berries. Any meat or fish I wanted but especially organ meat. I could eat barley, rye bread. Beans. Legumes. Lentils. And I think I could have sweet potatoes which I love. But no acidic food like tomatoes or lemons. If I wanted vinegar I used cider vinegar. So 20 years ago I tried this diet. At that time I had irritable bowel syndrome. It went away. I can't remember my weight. But the gist of this was I felt great.

I could not or would not sustain the diet at that time. So what is remarkable to me, is that I am eating now in exactly the way that this doctor recommended. I did not strive to or even think about the system when I began to eat this way. I wanted to lose weight.
It is specifically designed to help people with MS and other autoimmune disorders.
I was struggling with peripheral neuropathy, severe migraines, fatigue and unexplained seizures.
Elsi. I got what was diagnosed as peripheral neuropathy 10 months ago. It happened one day to the next. To the point I got sent to a neurologist was tested and FOUND TO NOT HAVE IT. But I have all of the symptoms. I am at the point of believing it is either autoimmune or trauma-related. I am going now to a Somatic Experiencing/Rolfing practitioner and after the first treatment the pain was greatly reduced, I was able to stop the xanex I took to sleep for a week. (resumed.)

I will add here that doing the keto/time restricted eating/fasting has reduced my migraines.
zucchini noodles
What kind of spiralizer do you use?
bone broth form
I have been curious about bone broth but where do you buy the bones?
grass-fed steak
This is my deal with this: If I concerned myself with organic or grass fed meat, there would be the huge expense. I am not in a position to buy $50 steaks or chickens. I choose not to be.
basis of the diet is nine cups of fruits and veggies every day:
Thank you Elsi. Now that I am roasting or sautéing my vegetables I can do this. The other thing I forgot to say I like is pureed vegetable soup. And that uses up loads of cooked vegetables.

My only problem would be the dairy: I NEED the cream in my coffee and tea. And I am quite dependent upon yogurt which is a staple. I use cheese as a snack but could substitute almond butter or nuts. How does Dr. Wahl feel about yogurt, which is fermented? I mean none of this has to be absolute. I could integrate into my diet what I am able to sustain, and keep working towards being better.

Here is my conclusion. Where I am after reading and writing this. I think I have auto-immune issues. Yes. I do. I think I also have issues like your daughter, Elsi. And I have to decide to up my game for health. Mental and physical.

I think your exercise routine sounds tremendous. I have a lot of trouble with my spine. And I feel weakness. I get migraines. I have very poor core strength. But the worst thing is when all hell breaks loose with my son, I lose myself. I become centered in him and I really want to die. Not suicidal but despair. And it is very hard to hang onto any self-care. I do not want to scare myself or any of you, but my life is really depending upon how seriously I begin to take all of this.

I need to up my game again with exercise and movement.
I need to eat more and stop worrying about the weight. (But don't know how. I am afraid to get fat. Maybe I need to start exercising again and focus on weight stabilization.)

What I can do right now is increase to the 9 cups of vegetables. That is easy. My problem will be the dairy. Elsi. Do you have any ideas? If I could hold onto the cream and maybe a cup of yogurt a day, I think I could do it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. All of this is such a help. I feel better just READING your posts, and WRITING this post.

Elsi. I am sorry about your sister but it sounds like she is getting this stabilized. Look at Romney's wife. I have always been interested in how she used that specialized kind of horsemanship, I forget what it is called, as a form of treatment. I am interested in equine related activities, mounted and not, and how they help in body-mind centering, for trauma and health challenges in generally.

Thank you everybody.

 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I had my first green smoothie just a year ago. I loved it so much! I bought a Nutri-bullet but only used it until the pureed soup I was making went all over the kitchen. I bought another one which is still in the box. I really, really, really want to do this. I hope we can sustain this thread to support each other. I cannot tell you how grateful I am.

Elsi. I had read Dr. Wahl's protocol a couple of years ago. I thought the world of it then, but did not see how I could do it. I am beginning to think I can.

Do you think if I just added the vegetables at first, and cut the dairy back to a cup of yogurt and the cream, that I would at least be in the spirit of things?

Did you buy her book?
 

Elsi

Well-Known Member
We have a "family" copy of the book we've all passed around. I'll be back later and answer more of your specific questions, but yes I think focusing on getting the good stuff IN is a good place to start. For the dairy, you might consider doing an elimination for a week or two and adding it back in to see if there is a difference for you. If there's no difference, don't worry about it. The issue with dairy and autoimmune for a lot of people is the ability to handle certain proteins in the dairy - they are inflammatory for many people, and Wahls is all about reducing inflammation. Same with gluten - not a problem for a lot of people, but if it causes inflammation for you, it's gotta go. You're on the right track with pureed soups and sauces - it's hard getting nine cups in whole and raw! Once you cook them down and puree them, or put them in smoothie form, it starts to look a lot more doable. We grow a lot in the summer, but in the winter our grocery order looks like we are feeding a small hippopotamus.

I'll be back later tonight - I think I'd better go work on some things people are planning to pay me for!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I found that when I was doing keto my psoriasis tended to look better. When I came off I went into a horrendous flare. I don't know if it's linked, but anecdotally it seemed to be.
I have TOTALLY found a relationship between my diet and my health states.

I have really bad digestive issues. Like gastritis and GERD. Like bad. If I do the keto these greatly diminish.
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
I have a lot of health issues that affect how hard it is to lose weight like interstitial cystitis and now - perimenopause! I have just starting losing - but mainly because my back went out. I've always needed to do strength training to keep my back 'in its place' and keep the weight off. I think adding muscle helps me lose weight, although I know that's controversial but it does get things kicked off for me - although it takes a month of no results on the scale but seeing muscle definition. Everyone is different. I agree other exercise (cardio, walking) does not help with my weight loss. Although I did get a fitbit just to prove to myself how horrible this sedentary job is for me! This is what I'm doing (and have done many times - when will I learn this is HOW I HAVE TO LIVE?) well I get stressed out like copa and carbs and tv here I come!

1) eat less sugar/carbs, portion control
2) strength training (just dumbbells - a few sets) three times a week - increase weight gradually (I'm at 5 lbs! Weak!)

I've always 'fasted' at least 16 hours a day (skipped breakfast) and I can gain or lose doing that so 16/8 intermittent fasting is not a factor for me unfortunately. I wonder if 5/2 would work better for me. Maybe someday. Good luck ladies!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
strength training (just dumbbells - a few sets) three times a week - increase weight gradually (I'm at 5 lbs! Weak!)
Hi Bluebell. With this I agree that muscles will help with the weight loss, and the skeletal stuff too. My arthritis pain when I did consistent strength training was waaay better. And years ago when I had a lifestyle that was all dancing and walking...the pain went away 100 percent.

Bluebell. What do you eat? More or less. The 5/2 did not work for me. But it seems to work for everybody else.

When I read about time restricted eating they said that breakfast, eating early was the most important thing.

It is closer to paleo than keto.
Elsi. I do not know the difference but by the time you come back I will have researched it. Thank you.
 
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bluebell

Well-Known Member
Bluebell. What do you eat? More or less

Well Copa - hopefully less :) LOL.
I skip breakfast but if it's a weekend and we are out I've been getting an omelet and splitting it in half and letting the other half go. I'm a shortie (5 foot 1 - have 40 to lose) and if I don't skip breakfast I will usually eat too much by the end of the day (7 is my cutoff).

Then I eat about every 2 hours - 12 almonds - Chobani (hint of) yogurt, ezekial bread with teaspoon of peanut butter or a wholly guacamole single serve. Or those protein pack snack medley things with cheese and almonds. I get the lean cuisines for work that are less than 30 carbs.

For dinner I just eat whatever I still have a daughter at home and a husband who is not yet dieting (whole other thread!). Just use portion control or skip the carb. We go out a lot and I try to get the half sandwich half salad kind of thing. Or if it's mexican I get 2 crispy tacos (no chips and salsa!).

Certainly not keto by any means. I eat about 60 carbs a day/1200-1400 calories. It's been about 5 weeks and I've lost 4 pounds. I feel a lot better though and (sorry if too much information) my fat is getting 'squishy' which for me means it's getting ready to go - if I keep this up!

I'm all for keeping this going :)
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
It is closer to paleo than keto.
I think I thought I was on Keto because of eliminating processed food, grain, potatoes etc entirely and keeping carbs to 20. But I never bought into the macro balancing. It was just too hard for me. I did try to not eat too much protein and up good fats, but that is all I did.

And here I see that I must not have ever been on real Keto but on some kind of hybrid between Paleo and Keto (This is from google):

Differences Between the Two Plans. The ketogenic diet focuses on manipulating the three macronutrients, which are fat, carbs and protein for those keeping score. The Paleo diet is more about the food choices. You eliminate dairy, grains and processed foods, but balance the macronutrients any way you want.
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
Oh and also I can't eat a lot of veggies, salads at one time so that's why you don't see that. The bladder issue I have involves my stomach as well and it doesn't like a lot of extra work!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Bluebell. That sounds fantastic and sustainable and healthy, to me. And you are losing at a good rate. I lost a pound a MONTH. *Until I sped it up with the drastic Keto/Fasting which I do not recommend in that I think I became borderline eating disordered.

I forgot to mention above. There are recipes for Keto bread that sound wonderful. They are almost entirely nuts and seeds. Like Hazelnuts and Chia and Almonds. I drool at the thought. I would make it but I am afraid I would eat the whole bread in less than a day.

What is your thinking about dairy?
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Oh and also I can't eat a lot of veggies, salads at one time so that's why you don't see that. The bladder issue I have involves my stomach as well and it doesn't like a lot of extra work!
That sounds wise. I don't know if I remembered to write it but the doctor I went to years ago that typed me nutritionally told me to cook my vegetables. He said it was much easier on my system to metabolize cooked vegetables. (I love salads and he said I could eat some.)

But the strange thing Is that since I began the low carb fasting deal I stopped eating raw vegetables almost entirely and it was completely unconscious. I just stopped craving them. I will eat a half a raw pepper or a carrot when I am preparing them to cook but that is it.

I think what you write about concentrating your eating is KEY. It seems that what I have read (and experienced) that the danger comes from this constant assault of the body with the need to keep digesting without stop, and being flooded with foods that make it work, especially if such are toxic to the system.

If we keep this thread up we may all end up eating the same way and then we can write a book.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Then I eat about every 2 hours - 12 almonds - Chobani (hint of) yogurt, ezekial bread with teaspoon of peanut butter or a wholly guacamole single serve. Or those protein pack snack medley things with cheese and almonds.
I this we snacking largely identically accept I eat almond butter and whole avocado and skip the bread.
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
So much of this resonates right now. A few months ago my head was in the sand. (that's probably what screwed my back up LOL!) I can't drink milk it just disgusts me. I do love soft white cheeses like feta, goat and fresh mozz. And there's cheese in those packs I buy. And yogurt. I use half and half in my coffee. But I do try to limit dairy as I also think it's inflammatory to my bladder and stomach if i just poured it down there. I've never liked sandwiches with cheese or salads (unless it's special like feta or goat!) Just extra calories I've always figured.
As far as veggies - I'm roasting everything too lately!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I love plain Greek yogurt. I could NEVER eliminate dairy and survive :) Dairy doesnt bother me at all. I like sweetness so I use Stevia and its fine for me.
I never have cane sugar. Or fried food.

I am doing Keto and feel good and not hungry.

Lots of fish and I do use carb free fats like butter and mayainaise and of course cream for coffee. To me coffee tastes heavenly with cream and Stevia! Ambrosia!!!

I am going to do fasting. Thanks for telling me about it!
 

bluebell

Well-Known Member
Copa - we don't have a kitchen at work just a microwave so I have to try to find packaged stuff that's not complete crap! I will try almond butter! It's so silly I sit there and count my almonds when I used to just sit down with the whole package!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I checked back here TO WHINE. Why oh why am I NOT losing weight. Even with low carb and a smaller eating window I cannot lose weight. My temptation is to go radical again, but I worry about the risks. I am NOT A SPRING CHICKEN. So I tell myself to just stay at this weight and try to eat and be healthy and see where my body wants to go.

I love plain Greek yogurt.
Me too. I am trying to find out if heavy cream is ALL THAT inflammatory.
we don't have a kitchen at work just a microwave so I have to try to find packaged stuff that's not complete crap!
What about bringing thermos with leftover dinner and/or soup? Do you like vegetable soup like carrot or squash or spinach? And then eat a small piece of meat with it. What about cottage cheese or yogurt with nuts and maybe a few berries? What about crustless quiche aka frittata?

I found I gained weight on salads. Go figure. (Except I got in the habit of buying those bagged salads at Costco with seeds and cranberries, etc. and I think those were loaded in carbs.)

I think some of us have to walk a very, very fine line. Whether for underlying metabolic issues, or stress, or heredity, or temperament, or all of it--I think.
 
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