Dieting question Copa or others...Keto with fasting

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
One thing somebody mentioned and I am not doing but should is salmon--the omega-fat rich fish--they say a couple of times a week. I do use krill oil supplements but they say the dietary version is much better. (If anybody has high cholesterol I can tell you how I lowered mine. Drastically).
I love plain Greek yogurt.
I read up on dairy: recent studies have not verified the inflammatory properties. *But were these subsidized by the dairy industry? But anecdotally yogurt seems better than milk because of the fermentation process. And cream is advocated as an anti-inflammatory food. Who knew? And butter is supposed to be excellent. The reason for lower risk in high fat dairy like butter and cream is because they are lower-protein. And raw, unpasteurized dairy is supposed to be better. We have access to that because we live in an agricultural area. At one point I was going to make cheese and yoghurt.

So. SWOT and I are okay for now (whew) with our cream and yogurt *Bluebell, too. I am on half and half. I am not sure if I will go to heavy cream. But I will begin having salmon once a week. And maybe a can of tuna too which I don't like as much. But there is a brand of Italian tuna made in olive oil I used to buy which was divine. It probably costs $25 a can now but it is worth it. (I just found it for $3 a can.) I seem to be very sensitive to tastes and textures. Which is not necessarily so good. Wow. That would be a good lunch for you Bluebell. Do you like tuna? What about Tuna, Hummus, Kalamata Olives, a little Feta and Red Peppers. Like small plates. This is how the Turks eat.

I have to go to work guys.
 
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bluebell

Well-Known Member
I adore soup Copa! I just bought one of those thermoses and I have plans for it when the weather gets cooler. You are reading my mind! Protein is the hard part. Thanks for the ideas!
Omg - the bagged salad! When I first started this a month or so ago I brought one to work - I was going to eat half of it. But I was sooo hungry from food withdrawal at that time I ate the whole thing. I was sick for days! I will never eat one of those bagged salads with all the sugar coated nuggets again!
As to another point you made, I too am getting a bit obsessive - seeing food as a way to fuel, etc and think I might be prone to getting an eating disorder too. It's hard for us with these adult children we either feel we've 'lost control' of - or in my case- feel like that 'child' is actually in complete control of me.
I'm sorry you are not losing weight Copa that doesn't make sense. If you are eating less than 1000 calories a day I don't understand it at all.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Remember Citizen Kane and what was the name of the sled that he said before he died? I keep thinking it was bluebell. But it was NOT.

And remember The Graduate, and Plastics?

The word here for me is STRESS. I am not losing weight because of Cortisol.
 

Elsi

Well-Known Member
OK, first:

Even with the Keto my weight has stabilized. I am 149 which is fine for my height (I am 5'6") but I have it in my head I want to get back to 129 or at worst 139. My body does not want to budge.

Your body has decided this is your set point. Could you get lower? Maybe, but it's dicey - lower your calorie intake too much and you just mess up your metabolism, and then get into the yo-yo pattern. This is really unhealthy. They have shown that people who go on extreme diets to lose weight have a permanently lowered metabolism - so they are never able to handle as many calories as they could before the yo-yo started.

More importantly, why? You're at a healthy weight, and the science actually says its better to have a little extra as we get older. Maybe our bodies know this and this is why they hold on so much harder as we get older? I too would love to lose more. I'm 165 on a 5'5" frame. I seem to carry a lot of muscle, and the extra padding is pretty evenly distributed, so I think I carry it fairly well. (I think it was Mae West who said "I still have my hour-glass figure, but now it's closer to 90 minutes.") At my heaviest, I was 215. I would LOVE to be back in the 140s. I don't think anything under 145 is realistic or even healthy for me. But I also seem to be at this set point where my body does not want to budge. And yes, it bugs me sometimes. But I've had a couple epiphanies. I took care of both of my maternal grandparents as they aged and died, and saw up close and personal what time does to our bodies as we age. But it didn't make me love them any less. I don't love my aunt any less because she's obese. My children don't love me less when I'm heavier than when I'm smaller. I didn't love E less when she was heavier. My partner isn't complaining and doesn't love me less. And for all those strangers in the world who may be judging me for my body size - why do I need their approval, anyway? I know it is inevitable, if I'm lucky enough to live so long, that my body will end up much like my grandmother's. So what I am focused on now is how I FEEL and how I FUNCTION. Weight is part of that - my grandfather's final days would have been easier, and he would have retained mobility longer, if he were at a healthier weight. But the man still lived to be 99, so there you go. I'm not kidding myself that I'll get my youthful body back or retain it forever. I'm just focused on health, mobility and function as I age here. I am going to trust that the people who matter to me will love me even if I'm not perfect.

I got what was diagnosed as peripheral neuropathy 10 months ago. It happened one day to the next. To the point I got sent to a neurologist was tested and FOUND TO NOT HAVE IT. But I have all of the symptoms. I am at the point of believing it is either autoimmune or trauma-related. I am going now to a Somatic Experiencing/Rolfing practitioner and after the first treatment the pain was greatly reduced,

Almost ALL of the health issues we've all mentioned here - psoriasis, interstitial cystitis, IBS, arthritis, peripheral neuropathy, MS - come down to inflammation and autoimmune function. Which often comes down to diet. Keto helps here because you're getting rid of a lot of inflammatory carbs. Paleo and Wahls do the same thing. I've really come to see inflammation as the key to a lot of health problems. Eating to reduce inflammation is my main focus. I've come to view sugar and other simple carbs the way I do alcohol - they taste good and are fun every once in a while, but I eat them knowing I will pay for it in how I feel later and make my decisions accordingly.

I would love to know more about your Rolfing experience!

I've always needed to do strength training to keep my back 'in its place' and keep the weight off. I think adding muscle helps me lose weight, although I know that's controversial but it does get things kicked off for me - although it takes a month of no results on the scale but seeing muscle definition.

I think building muscle is also really important for those of us who are ...uhem...not as young as we used to be. (Right there with you on the perimenopause thing!) I don't notice a big difference on the scale, but I do notice a difference in the way clothes fit, in how I feel. Most importantly, I know it will help me retain function as I get older. I'm not as good at the weight training as I would like to be. I almost always look at the weights and choose yoga or kickboxing instead, which I tell myself also build strength in their own ways. I don't know why I hate weights so much.

I also struggle with severe back pain, partly from stenosis and partly from neuropathy. Yoga has really helped me here. For anyone with Amazon Prime, there are some great ones on there. I really like Yoga for the Inflexible. (That is definitely me.)

My problem will be the dairy. Elsi. Do you have any ideas? If I could hold onto the cream and maybe a cup of yogurt a day, I think I could do it.

Like I said above, experiment here with an elimination diet and see if it even applies to you. It may not. I can only handle a couple teaspoons of goat cheese on a salad on an average day. We have switched to almond milk for coffee (well, R has - I don't do coffee - caffeine triggers some of my neurological problems) and other basic milk-related needs. (Don't do soy - it's also inflammatory.) Almond milk is a bit problematic environmentally, but we don't use a whole lot. I gave up yogurt, which I used to eat a lot of. But I do better without it. I tend to do peanut butter on an apple or celery in place of what used to be my yogurt time. (Strict paleo doesn't do peanuts or other legumes, but I seem to be fine with them.)


If I concerned myself with organic or grass fed meat, there would be the huge expense. I am not in a position to buy $50 steaks or chickens. I choose not to be.

We can't afford that either. That's partly why we've just eliminated most meat. (I also just prefer not to eat cows and pigs, because I have known a few and gotten attached.) We do a little poultry, but not often, and buy from farmer friends or farmer's market rather than grocery. We're considering raising chickens. Maybe next year! (Though I don't think I could eat one I raised - eggs would be good though!) The reason grass fed vs. grain fed matters is related to the Omega 3 vs. Omega 6 ratio in the resulting meat, which again gets back to inflammation. We eat tons of fish, especially salmon, wild caught when we can. It's not a cheap way to eat, but we look for sales and grow our own veggies in the summer. And I see this as an investment in my future health. It's cheaper than medications. Or physical therapy.

What kind of spiralizer do you use?

Right now a cheap $10 manual one from the grocery store, but it hurts my wrists. I think I'm going to invest in one of the ones that goes on my KitchenAide stand mixer.

I have been curious about bone broth but where do you buy the bones?

Butcher or natural food store. When we do poultry, I get the whole bird and make my own broth. R also does beef broth (I don't). She picks up those bones from a natural food store when we head in towards the city - it's like a Whole Foods but just local here I think. If you buy meat from the farmer's market, you can also ask them if they will sell you bones.

Look at Romney's wife. I have always been interested in how she used that specialized kind of horsemanship, I forget what it is called, as a form of treatment. I am interested in equine related activities, mounted and not, and how they help in body-mind centering, for trauma and health challenges in generally.

I would love to be able to get my sister into something like that! Sadly we're not on a Romney budget for therapies...

I think I also have issues like your daughter, Elsi. And I have to decide to up my game for health. Mental and physical.

That's the key - focus on HEALTH and overall WELLBEING, mental and physical. Don't let your self-esteem get tied up in the scale. E is really struggling with that right now, and I have fallen into the trap at times as well. I am a perfectionist. I don't just want to lose weight, I want to lose weight in the most efficient way possible! And I want to be at the PERFECT weight for my height! Letting go of that perfectionism has been hard. But our value as people can't be measured with a scale. I've decided to measure my life in other ways. My relationships. My professional skills. The value I can bring to other people around me.
 

B’smom

Active Member
I did Keto for 3 months and lost 40lbs (200 to 160lbs) on Keto. I stopped about 4 months ago and I have gained 10lbs back to hover around 170. My body LOVED keto, I have nerve damage and suffer from migraines daily, it stopped all of that- something medication couldn’t touch/prevent. I felt so much healthier on it.

I didn’t do intermitted fasting but I did drink 1-2 bulletproof coffees in the morning then ate supper only at 5:30 pm. I did this several days a week- usually Monday’s and Friday’s. I gave myself a cheat day usually once a week (Sunday’s). I NEED coffee, and lots of it so I wasn’t able to do the actual fasting. It did seem to jump start the weight loss tho.

I keep saying I’m going back on Keto but can’t make it longer than two days. I want it more for the health benefits vs weight loss although I’d love to be at 150lbs.

Working out actually stalled my weight loss but I kept going anyways because it was a great stress reliever. I was doing about 2 hrs a day 6-7days a week.


I found that when I was doing keto my psoriasis tended to look better. When I came off I went into a horrendous flare


I don’t have psoriasis but I do have eczema. When I’m on Keto, it disappears and then comes back with a vengeance. I’m wondering if I have an allergy to gluten that’s causing it to act up.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Well. Not only have I not done one bit of work today. I burnt the chicken and I almost burnt the green beans which is hard, I know. They were saved.

Bluebell. I found numerous brands on Amazon, which were not the brands I remember using many years ago. But I will try as many as I can and I will let you know. (I searched Italian tuna in olive oil and then did the rating search. Some cans were the 5 oz and some were 3 oz. But the thing is I got kicked off Amazon for life because I returned too much, so I will have to buy on Walmart or Jet. I will let you know what I find that is good. And if you have access you can let me know, too. Tuna I think in Italian is TONNO. We could also maybe find Spanish brands too.

Bluebell. Do you have one of those high-powered blenders like the Nutribullet that cook the soup in the blender? It really works except when it explodes in the kitchen and it takes 6 hours to clean it up. It works so good I am considering doing it in the yard. (I am laughing here, but this is not meant to be a joke.) You can buy them reconditioned at Walmart.com. But then. Maybe that is why mine exploded. My Brazilian JiuJitsu teacher uses his to make green smoothies. My gosh. You could do this too, at work. Bring a Nutribullet and make smoothies at work. Have it explode. And there you are. Chaos at work. (When I am in a certain state of mind I thrive on creating Chaos for others. Which certainly is an interesting personality trait. Especially the lack of inhibition to admit it.) I crack myself up.

I had a somatic experiencing/rolfing treatment yesterday. It was my second. I think it helps me. It feels good to be in touch with this part of my personality that I like to create chaos. It is certainly preferable to wanting to throw myself in front of the oncoming train.

Please do not worry about me. I am very in control. And I am not suicidal. I write the truth here because there have to be at least a few others out there who get as despairing as I have. You too can come to want to make chaos. (For others.)
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I did Keto for 3 months and lost 40lbs (200 to 160lbs)
B'smom. That is truly fantastic. I would guess you gained back the 10 lbs. not in real weight but in water weight. Once you begin to eat carbs again the glucose that goes to the cells holds a lot of water. If you did it a week all the water weight would drop off again, I think.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
You guys. I am enjoying this truly. But I must say adieu. Bluebell. Maybe we can find recipes for pureed vegetable soups and share them. I will check back with you later tonight. I will miss you. But I must tie myself to the mast.
 

B’smom

Active Member
B'smom. That is truly fantastic. I would guess you gained back the 10 lbs. not in real weight but in water weight. Once you begin to eat carbs again the glucose that goes to the cells holds a lot of water. If you did it a week all the water weight would drop off again, I think.

Yes, you’re absolutely right about the water weight. It does come off when I make it past day one, I’m usually down 3-4lbs right away. It’s typically why I don’t worry too much now. The clothes I bought when I lost my weight still fit. So I use my jeans as a gage instead of my actual weight. Then I measure every so often. I’ve put away the scale. My migraines are back though, it really should be motivation enough to stay on keto. Lol
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I don’t have psoriasis but I do have eczema. When I’m on Keto
I can get eczema but what is really troubling is for the past couple of years I get a yeast infection under my breasts. What I have found is that eating carbs raises my blood sugar and the yeast feast on me. There has been a period of time when I was able to keep the yeast at bay by eliminating carbs. Not so now. But everything you all are writing has been verified by my own experience.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
So I use my jeans as a gage instead of my actual weight.
Smart.

What are the barriers to staying on Keto?

What is remarkable is how remarkably similar all of our experiences have been. To the letter. I have to agree with Elsi about the inflammation. My son for years ate like this and talked about inflammation. I thought it was BS until I tried it.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I think I'm going to invest in one of the ones that goes on my KitchenAide stand mixer.
Thank you Elsi. I wish I had a kitchenaid mixer. I got a Breville instead and there is no spiralizer attachment. I bought an immersion blender with a spiralizer attachment which has not yet arrived for $29. Chefmate is the brand. I will let you know how it works.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Ok, i have no trouble staying on Keto and i count carbs. Since I really dont have inflammation i can easily handle some dairy. But mostly I eat eggs, meat and fish... Low carbs and fats, which is good for keto. I add low carb veggies and count the carbs. For actual weight loss with keto counting carbs is important. I make it easy for me and dont vary my eating routine often. I dont think I am sensitive to certain foods. But I dont eat them all equally either and sugar is saved only for Christmas and weddings...places where its rude to say no. And if it werent rude, Id say no. You get used to sugar free food. Sugar is a bad addictiion that causes so many disorders.

I do care about getting off the pounds I gained after the accident. I know how. What I think it comes down to is knowing your owpn body, dieting in an easy going, non obsesdive waY, exercise is a must for me and not basing self esteem on body image. I want ro lose ten pounds. I will. But I refuse to make it a huge part of my life. I dont think that obsessing over food is healthy. But i do think its fun to compare and exchange ideas.

Lets compare how we are doing in a very easygoing way.

Love to all ;)
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
C and S are definitely too skinny due to drug-induced anorexia (and drug-induced poverty). It's painful to see.
My son was a health nut. He worked out all of the time at the gym and did martial arts, mainly Brazilian forms. For 10 years he was into anti-inflammation and macros. He ate coconut oil, oodles of spinach, salmon everyday, organic, grass bed beef, no carbs, etc. He did food combining and macros.

All of this has fallen by the wayside. He subsists on energy drinks and snacks. He is still using supplements but more as a feel-good thing or to respond to anxiety or body monitoring that is obsessive. Kind of like he uses caffeine pills. And now he is using nicotine to get high. There is a name for what he is doing. It is from Scandinavia. The working out and sports are gone. He eats candy and cookies. I can hardly believe it.

I am unsure if this is the effect of living on the marijuana or whether it is a symptom of mental illness, or addictive thinking or living a marginal and unproductive lifestyle or all of it. But this is a person who has gone from a commitment to himself and his life to complete alienation and abandonment of his core self.

I felt happy today on this thread until I started typing this post. There is not one thing I can do to get my son back. I am almost glad I lost my phone Tuesday because I am less aware that he wants no contact with me. And feel more in control that I cannot beg him through texts to love me.

I try hard not to think about what he could be doing, where he is, where he will be when it is cold and wet, why he cannot find love for me, how he can so easily live without me, if I do not serve his interests in the way that he seeks and demands.

He wrote a month or so ago how traumatized he was about what happened. I guess he means squatting in the yard of the 20th st. house. I guess he means all the times I called the cops when he came here, and barged in or would not leave. I guess he means that I finally called a halt to his living off of us. I guess he means when I hit his leg with the pot, so he would back away from the door when he would not leave my kitchen out the back door.

This thread has been so wonderful because we have focused on our own health and well-being. Like it is important. Like we have central importance. Like there is hope for us. Like we can cultivate health and hope.

I am grateful to all of you.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Since I really dont have inflammation i can easily handle some dairy.
SWOT. How do you know you don't have inflammation. You experience a lot of stress with BART and with your birth family, which gratefully has decreased. Stress causes inflammation.

I think your plan sounds healthy, especially with a lot of vegetables and low glycemic fruits, like Elsi is eating.

I think you will easily lose the 10 lbs by wedding day. I think your approach is sane and healthy. The exercise in particular.

But there are some of us who have more serious health issues that would possibly be served by being more stringent. Not radical, but stringent, in ways that seem to be documented by science.

I do not think that attention to diet is obsessive. I think it is conscious. Problems can come at you for being unconscious and indifferent. I think that this is the idea behind the thread. Nobody is saying be a nut. I am hearing everybody as saying: what are some small and easy ways I can eat better to be healthier.

I am reading a core message here from virtually everybody about what helps health and well-being generally (and I added a couple at the end, that I forgot):

No refined carbs. No processed foods. (In general.)
Trying not to overeat.
Low glycemic vegetables and fruits. (Fewer if any potatoes, less if any rice, way less pasta.)
Reduced grains, or if eaten, focusing on barley, rye and oats in small amounts.
Focus on vegetables and lower glycemic fruits. Very little juice, if any.
Reduced or eliminated dairy. Except for some Yogurt, and a little cheese, like Feta. If health permits.
Eating nuts and seeds.
Healthy proteins, and eating oily fish. But reduced amounts of protein. We don't need so much.
Good fats.
Exercise that your body tolerates, that is phased into.
Staying away from 24 hour grazing and giving one's body a rest, metabolically by establishing eating windows.
Avoiding nighttime eating.
Allowing some breaks and flexibility to ensure happiness and compliance.
Occasional dark chocolate. Occasional wine, particularly red wine.

I see nothing radical, extreme or dangerous about eating or living like this. My grandmother who died in 1976 ate like this. I think this is how people in many cultures really lived until modernity. This is as far as I know the Mediterranean Diet, very similar to the diet the people eat in Crete and parts of Italy where they live to 115 years old.
 
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ahhjeez

Active Member
B's mom I did just about the same. Lost 40 and then gained back 10 once I stopped keto. My body loved it too. I also have psoriatic arthritis and I've been in remission for awhile so I can't speak to how keto did with that, but my psoriasis was better. I also have Hashimoto's and my numbers went a little nuts, but I think that was due to the weight loss. I've kept up with many aspects of it and need to get back to a more workable version for myself.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I agree with you, Copa. I am thinking of people with actual eating disorders. I lived with them. I dont consider being mindful of health to be nuts or learning what is healthy to be in any way sbnormal. I guess I expressed myself wrong and I apologize.

It is only dangerous and NOT healthy if you actually go on a diet because you are 5'5 and weigh 100 lbs and see your body as overweight, when in fact it is very thin, too thin. There are hospitals full of people with eating disorders who are on IV because they are stick skinny and starving themselves and this is what I meant. Having a diet turning extreme, into self starvation. Taking laxatives to lose more weight even while not eating. Vomiting to purge yourself of calories. Being a patient in a ward for starving mostly young people (but not always young) who are actually dangerously close to dying, yet they are trying hard to exercise in the hospital because they think they are fat.

This disease usually starts with just dieting and since I have seen it, it worries me and I warn. I dont think any of us are living for what we eat, or weigh 100 lbs. and are desperately sure we are too fat. but I care about you all and want to make sure. It ceases to be healthy if we are underweight yet not eating and over exercising. I dont believe any of us are doing this.

As for inflammation in myself, i really dont know for sure!! All I can go by is that I am truly fastitious about getting check ups and seeing doctors any time I feel there is a problem. i have cataracts which are not bad enough to remove yet (grrrrrr....tell THAT to my night vision), that I had shots for osteoarthritis because I had bad reactions to the medication for that, that I have a hypothyroid which I take medications for and have high cholestral, hereditary kind, that does not respond to good eating or exercise so i take a medication. It works. Nobody ever mentioned inflammation, although I think arthritis is, right?? If so, I ignore it lol because staying active makes my arthritis not painful.

But maybe I should look into dairy. It is not a big part of my diet. I dont need inflannation.

I appreciate your prodding me to be more mindful of what I eat Copa. Thank you!
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
osteoarthritis because I had bad reactions to the medication for that, that I have a hypothyroid which I take medications for and have high cholestral
SWOT. I have very high cholesterol. Very. I was able to control it through OTC supplementation. But do what your doctor says.

I would not take the medication. But that is me. (I have read that the Red Yeast Rice I do take is probably as dangerous or more than the medication, because it is not regulated by the government.) But the medication is really a chemically based version copycat of the Red Yeast rice. I talked to my doctor and he said he sees no problem with it because it is both natural and has been used for thousands of years in Asia.

You see. I take medications that are approved by the government and they are highly dangerous. Because they are approved by the government means not one thing to me.

What I take to lower cholesterol (I did a lot of research): Psillium fiber. Krill Oil. Cholesteroff (which is Stanols, I think) and Red Yeast Rice which is a natural form of statins which the medication is based upon. I cut my cholesterol by more than one third in a couple of months. (But oh yes. Then when I went off the deep end with my son I stopped all of it. And now I am back on the supplements. Yeah for me.)

It is also very important if you are taking the cholesterol medication to take a supplement which I forget the name of but I think one version is marketed in the name Qunol. Or something like that. You can google it. (I will post the name in a subsequent message.) The cholesterol medication can deplete certain vitamins and minerals and give rise to leg cramps, among other things. This no name supplement guards against, or helps to at least, the side effects of cholesterol reducing medications.

SWOT. You have Arthritis. Arthritis is related to inflammation! High cholesterol may be too. I will google it now. You have unleashed a monster. I am sorry.
 
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