Family Reunion From Hell

[Childofmine]

Lil and Jabber, I am sorry for your pain. That is the first part of this, and your pain is a very important part of it.

I'm coming to the conversation late here but please know I so understand how painful it is when our adult children act out and do things we don't agree with, and then other people react to that. My son stole from my neighbors---who were some of my really good friends---we went to the lake together, she and I were close, and at one time our kids were close---and after that they were clearly and understandably upset and didn't want him anywhere near their house---and I understood that, of course, but it hurt me badly. In fact, what i did was basically reject them before they could reject me. It was just so painful, and looking back, I don't think it was the right thing for me to do, but I was hurt and ashamed and humiliated by his behavior...and the pain was just so intense. I didn't know what to do with him myself, and clearly nobody else did either.

My parents are in their 80s and while they love Difficult Child dearly, I would not want them to have him in their home for any length of time, even now. Their lifestyle and his are very different. Heck, his lifestyle and mine is very different. If I don't even want him here for more than a few hours, how in the world can I expect them to and I would not want them to.

Having said that, it sounds like your family is a good one. They love him, and they want the best for him. They aren't going to handle him or things like you would, especially when they are afraid. Fear is an incredible force, and they don't know him like you do. They reacted, it sounds like, and of course they didn't want to hurt you and that is likely why they didn't call and discuss it all with you. He was still there, even though they were scared, and I think that is a testament to how much they care.

If you can, let some time go by on this. Try not to parse every detail of this, because it just prolongs the hurt. It is clear that they care very deeply for him. If they didn't, he wouldn't have been there for as long as he has. Did they handle it like you wish they would have? No. And it hurts badly.

And I know you know. But the feelings are overwhelming. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You two need all of the help and support you can get, and family can be a huge part of it, even if we don't like how they handle things with DCs. We are super-sensitive about our DCs, i.e., we can say it, but we don't want anybody else to.

Hang in there. First and foremost are your feelings. Those will fade in time, and remember: Feelings aren't facts.

Try to forgive them, for yourself, and then for him. I agree with someone else who said: If you can get over this, he can too, in time.

He needs all of the people he can get in his life who love and care for him. They clearly do.

Warm hugs. I remember so well the feelings of isolation and pain from my family and neighbors and friends who of course were afraid of my son's behavior and decisions. We understand here. We know he is a good person and always has been.

 

[Jabberwockey]

We are super-sensitive about our DCs, i.e., we can say it, but we don't want anybody else to.

I cant speak for Lil on this, but someone else saying it doesn't bother me at all. Ok, I can speak for Lil a bit but with her I think its more embarrassment that its gotten bad enough that they feel the need to talk about it more than they aren't allowed. Correct me on this if I'm wrong hon.

My biggest issue at the beginning of this stems from my attitude on personal responsibility. My oldest sister kept harping on "this is YOUR responsibility, YOU need to deal with it". No, its not my responsibility, its my son's for his behavior. Its not my responsibility that he was at the grand's, its my sisters for arranging this.

My responsibility in this is that I was stupid enough to mention that my youngest sister might be willing to give our son a ride. As soon as he called the next day asking if she would give him another ride, I realized how badly I had screwed up. She told me on Saturday that she realized on the drive to the grand's that she had made a mistake. This was after she had been in the car with him long enough for him to go on one of his tangents about how hard he tried and how people continually screwed him over. Too late then.

 

[Childofmine]

(big long sigh). It is SO HARD. All of this is SO HARD.

And then to compound the pain, we get caught up in: she said, he said, she did, he did. Or what people didn't do.

Most of the world does not know the pain of loving our precious precious children who do not act like the rest of the world acts.

We are ashamed.

That is the root of it. Al-Anon is so good about helping with guilt and shame.

I remember first going in there and hearing people talk about guilt and shame, and asking myself: Self, do you feel guilt and shame over Difficult Child? Heck no, Self said, I KNOW I was a good mother, this is ON HIM.

Well, of course, I did feel guilt and shame, but I couldn't admit it or see it at that point. I was also in denial.

This merry go round just keeps on turning. Us and them.

People---us, them, our families---are just so darn human. We all mess up...a lot.

Question is: How do we handle it when we mess up? That is what I am trying to learn, how to handle the messes I make (letting other people worry about their own messes) a lot better. That is a full time job---Me.

It's still hard. All of it. : (

 

[Lil]

I cant speak for Lil on this, but someone else saying it doesn't bother me at all. Ok, I can speak for Lil a bit but with her I think its more embarrassment that its gotten bad enough that they feel the need to talk about it more than they aren't allowed. Correct me on this if I'm wrong hon.

No. You aren't wrong. I actually don't mind people talking about my son and what he's done. I know what he's done. I'm not pretending I have the perfect child. Heck, I'm likely to spill my guts to anyone who will listen.

But it DOES bother me a LOT that people suddenly started acting like he's some sociopathic serial killer that's going to murder them in their sleep. I'm not just talking about your parents locking their door. Did ONE of your family members suggest he stay with them a day or two to give your parents less stress? Your youngest sis said to me before she even took him to grandma's that he couldn't be around her daughter. He'd done NOTHING at that point. The comment was made when your middle sis was saying she was going to take him to a hotel, "But you have your granddaughter." Like he's going to suddenly decide to hurt a 4 year old or something, or at lease somehow traumatize her with his presence. He is NOT dangerous and it ticks me off no end that they are acting like they have to hide their babies (and parents) from him!

My oldest sister kept harping on "this is YOUR responsibility, YOU need to deal with it".

Yeah, that upset me too. In fact, pretty much everything upset me. But they acted like we suddenly foisted off this horrible person on them when all we asked for was one ride to the town and one ride to a shelter. We NEVER asked them to do anything and really, coming from your oldest sis who I've met about 3 times, really ticked me off. He's 20 years old not 12. Try TALKING to HIM.

We are ashamed.

Of course we are. I laid awake far too long last night rehearsing what I will have to say to Jabber's parents. One line that never changed is, "I'm so ashamed of the way he's behaved and I'm so sorry that you were made to feel unsafe in your own home." I'm ashamed that I raised a young man who would shout at his grandparents, who still throws tantrums when something goes wrong like a big, scary 3-year-old, who never listens to people who know what they're talking about, who never follows good advice, who lies, who steals, who won't buckle down and work for a living, who wants everything handed to him, who'd rather leave and never come back than do 40 hours of window washing, who is mooching off a young girl who apparently adores him, who constantly says he's going to do one thing and does another, who blames everyone for his problems but himself...He's MINE. I gave birth to him. I contributed half his genes. I raised him. I can't ever, no matter how hard I try, get over the feeling that I must have done something wrong. I must have somehow messed up. Some of what he is has to be my fault.

Other people I know, their kids are going to college, working full time, getting married, joining the service, becoming fricking Eagle Scouts! But mine - I don't know how to not be ashamed.

In other words, she has just enough knowledge about the situation to be dangerous. Problem is, its the specifics that make our situation so different than what hers was. I know she meant well but she doesn't really know our son.

And you know, that's part of the problem both ways. They don't KNOW him...they don't know that he wouldn't actually be dangerous to anyone I suppose. But it still ticks me off no end that they don't ASK either! They NEVER talked to US.

And there's a little hypocrisy too. Their kids, especially middle sis's are hardly perfect! Okay...some of their kids are perfect...but hers? Two boys with drug issues, one who had two babies and a 3rd on the way before he married the girl, daughter with a baby out of wedlock too and I won't even go into the oldest boy's brilliance. That's why I'm so mad at her. It really is. After all she went thru with hers - and I note she never threw out any one of them - she thinks she has the right to teach us tough love?


And while I'm on the subject, that's something else that really made our kid mad. When I took him aside to talk to him at one point he asked if I knew Jabber's oldest sis was pregnant when she got married. I told him yes, and 2nd oldest never married her child's father...what was the point? The point was that his aunts clearly were having sex before marriage and yet grandparents were telling him he was doing something awful by moving in with this girl. Add that to the atheist thing, to the gay marriage thing, etc., etc...

The whole darn thing was just such a cluster from day one.

 

[InsaneCdn]

must have somehow messed up. Some of what he is has to be my fault.

No, Lil. It doesn't have to be your fault.
For starters, you are only responsible for 50% of his DNA. And you didn't exactly get to pick your own DNA either. This is not about YOUR parenting.

When I took him aside to talk to him at one point he asked if I knew Jabber's oldest sis was pregnant when she got married. I told him yes, and 2nd oldest never married her child's father...what was the point? The point was that his aunts clearly were having sex before marriage and yet grandparents were telling him he was doing something awful by moving in with this girl.

This is just about classical Aspie. He doesn't see the degree of separation in the message. I'm sure the grandparents said exactly the same things to their kids. Them doing it, didn't ever make it right in the eyes of the grandparents. And they are holding a consistent line and giving him the same message. But your son doesn't know about those earlier messages. So he looks at it and says... if your KIDS can do this, then I can too, what's the big deal?

The whole meltdown thing that precipitated all of this is also... typically Aspie. I was well into my 20s before I could consistently avoid a meltdown. I didn't carry a knife, and wasn't exactly the intimidating sort. So I just looked ridiculous.

 

[Jabberwockey]

The point was that his aunts clearly were having sex before marriage and yet grandparents were telling him he was doing something awful by moving in with this girl.

And if you remember correctly, when I moved in with you a whopping two or three months before our wedding, mom and dad had the whole "Living In Sin" chat with me. That's how they are, not the sibs.

After all she went thru with hers - and I note she never threw out any one of them - she thinks she has the right to teach us tough love?

That's was has me most upset with her as well.

But they acted like we suddenly foisted off this horrible person on them when all we asked for was one ride to the town and one ride to a shelter. We NEVER asked them to do anything

And I doubt that any of them have considered this. If my youngest sister had called me before calling mom, I would have told her to pick a motel and I would pay for the room just don't even consider taking him to the grand's.

 

[BusynMember]

Some of what he is has to be my fault.

Lil, you have often said he is like his biological father.

Don't every underestimate the power of DNA. Adopted parents know this.

I personally can't imagine it was your fault unless you secretly beat him up or belittled him constantly.

He is what he is made of too. Many adoptive parents, whose kids finally meet birthparents they never met, are STUNNED at how much their kids are like those people whom they have never seen before in t heir livevs, even sometimes having the same gestures and ways of speaking with their hands. This is DNA. It can't be erased. It is not about parenting. I wish I'd had two loving people like you and Jabber as parents.

You should not feel ashamed because you didn't do the deeds. Your son did and your son is not only not you, but he is nothing like you at all. You are mother and son, but you are not alike in any way. It happens, even in biological homes...one of the children takes after one parent's personality traits far more than the other ones.Perhaps both of them were Aspies, but I'm sometimes convinced he's an Aspie and sometimes now as my autistic spectrum son is not like him. Even Aspies have their own personalities and are not alike.

I hate it when you blame yourself.

 

[Tanya M]

I can't ever, no matter how hard I try, get over the feeling that I must have done something wrong. I must have somehow messed up. Some of what he is has to be my fault.

Lil, from what I know of you, you are loving and kind. You did nothing wrong in raising your son. None of us are perfect, we have all made mistakes but that doesn't make us bad parents.
The fact that we are all here on this site sharing shows that we love our kids. If we didn't care about how they turned out we wouldn't be here pouring out our hearts and sharing our pain.
You and I are alike in that we each have only one child so it's easy to project out that "we must have done something wrong" because we don't have another "good" child to compare to. There are people on this site that have more than one child and their other children are living responsible productive lives. It's not always about how we parent. It took me time to understand that my son is just wired differently, he's just like his bio-father.
The only thing you are guilty of is loving your son and that my friend is not a bad thing.
I think one of the hardest parts of having a D C is that we will never really know or understand why they are the way they are. It just is what it is.

YOU are good enough.

 

[Lil]

I didn't carry a knife, and wasn't exactly the intimidating sort.

I do want it to be clear, he wasn't flourishing the knife mid-tantrum. He owns it, he plays with it...an annoying flip it open, flip it shut thing, like clicking a pen or cracking your knuckles...but it would not have been in his hands when he was throwing his fit.

And if you remember correctly, when I moved in with you a whopping two or three months before our wedding, mom and dad had the whole "Living In Sin" chat with me. That's how they are, not the sibs.

I know honey and that wasn't a dig at your parents. I even said to him, "That doesn't mean they approved of it". But you know how deep into his thick skull that penetrated. I just meant to point out it was one more thing that made the whole situation bad. In his brain it's "Oh, fine, your kids could do it but I get lectured and told I'm bad." He always has this persecution complex...he feels that everyone else can break the rules and get away with it, but he gets punished. He's always been that way. That's one reason why he and your parents were such a bad match. They don't think twice about saying this is wrong and that is wrong and you're doing wrong...and he doesn't think they mean it to apply to the world, just to him.

I personally can't imagine it was your fault unless you secretly beat him up or belittled him constantly.

Kind of the opposite actually. He barely got spanked and that stopped at about 7 or 8. He was always told he was bright and talented and could do whatever he put his mind to. For the life of me I don't know how he ended up with such low self esteem.

You and I are alike in that we each have only one child so it's easy to project out that "we must have done something wrong" because we don't have another "good" child to compare to.

I do think that's a big part of it.

I keep thinking about all these kids I know who's parents we thought were "wrong". All these good, hard-working, decent kids. Jabber's brother? His kids and ours were talking Saturday about video games and how we wouldn't let ours play certain games. Fantasy violence? Sure. Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty? Not so much. There's a huge difference between killing monsters and zombies and shooting people. Jabber's brother's kids were playing those games at SIX, the age ours was still only allowed Pac Man and Mario. Ours was never allowed to even own them even as a teen. Their oldest is in college to be an accountant, has held a job since he was 15 or so. Middle son has a child at 16, but is working and contributing. Youngest son is still too young to know, but seems like a nice kid. Our son's best friend growing up, his parents gave him a huge allowance and tons of freedom. We thought they were far too permissive. He's married (too young in my opinion) but working full time and has his own place, just bought a car, etc. I have a work colleague who was the opposite. Her son's sex talk was "abstain, abstain, abstain". Telling him, "We don't approve of premarital sex at your age but if you DO, then use protection." which is kind of what we told ours, in her mind was giving permission. She didn't tell her kid, "Don't drink, but if you make a bad choice and disobey us, call us instead of driving." She just said, "Don't, don't, don't." He's in college and is an Eagle Scout and posts lovely religious sayings now and then on Facebook.

We tried so hard to be "right" and not be too restrictive, letting him be an individual, but not be too soft and give him everything he wanted. We really did try.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I do want it to be clear, he wasn't flourishing the knife mid-tantrum. He owns it, he plays with it...an annoying flip it open, flip it shut thing, like clicking a pen or cracking your knuckles...but it would not have been in his hands when he was throwing his fit.

Lil... my son has knives. And has meltdowns. And he doesn't brandish them either but... just knowing he has them, and his size, and what he's like when he's out of control... it's never far from our minds. Back when I did the meltdown thing, it would never have crossed anyone's mind because I had no interest in knives for any reason (didn't even like using knives in the kitchen!)

Our kids don't understand how other people think, because THEY do not think that way. They make mental associations that most people would never think to make, and miss what most people think are logical associations, like... if you known a knife, and are known for your "temper", there's some chance you might use it against me... even if the thought isn't put into words.

 

[InsaneCdn]

We tried so hard to be "right" and not be too restrictive, letting him be an individual, but not be too soft and give him everything he wanted. We really did try.

Yes Lil. And you did a much better job of it than you think you did.
If you had raised a neurotypical kid, he'd probably have been an absolute delight.
I just wish you had more kids... just to prove the rest of us "right"... !

 

[Jabberwockey]

But you know how deep into his thick skull that penetrated. I just meant to point out it was one more thing that made the whole situation bad.

Even if he had known in advance that we had all been lectured, he would have ignored it simply because it didn't support his world view. He will easily forget MAJOR facts about a ton of things simply for this reason.

 

[InsaneCdn]

He will easily forget MAJOR facts about a ton of things simply for this reason.

I don't think he actually "forgets".
If he is a typical atypical person (such as an Aspie), stuff either doesn't get filed in long term storage in the first place because we can't figure out where to file it, or it's filed in one category, and this particular situation would require it to be recalled using a different key word, and our filing cross-reference list is broken or jumbled.

I don't think he is TRYING to be difficult. He just IS.

 

[Copabanana]

OK Lil, we have now reached the crest of the mountain and we are descending to real life. This whole circus involving the extended family was an accident waiting to happen. Everybody got caught up in their good intentions, hopes and fears.

But it DOES bother me a LOT that people suddenly started acting like he's some sociopathic serial killer that's going to murder them in their sleep.

This would hurt me too. M asked his sister if we could rent for my son a studio apartment she has next to her house. She said yes, but her husband nixed the deal. M had spoken too freely about the possibility that my son used drugs (only marijuana is confirmed, and I do not think he uses harder drugs.) The husband feared that his grandchildren be exposed to my son.

My son showed interest in one of their daughters. Everybody was horrified about this, including M. My son is gorgeously handsome, tall, highly intelligent. He can be charming. Obviously he is also impaired. M's nieces are unsophisticated, marginally attractive and somewhat simple, to my way of thinking. I was hurt.

Whatever my son's problems are he is not a drug dealer. He is not a gang member. He is not violent. Other son in laws have been such. I am hurt.

It is beside the point. Nobody is responsible for dealing with my son, except me. That M accepts responsibility is a gift.

Your youngest sis said to me before she even took him to grandma's that he couldn't be around her daughter.

I thought about their daughter who used drugs, and their daughters who cavorted with gang members. For a minute. Because after all this was their daughters and this is my son. What a world of difference this makes in responsibility and perception.

I felt a twinge of betrayal and shame, but not much. These are the people who wanted me to give them money first for an attorney for their daughter, then to buy a commercial property for the wife's store.

I will never ever again feel guilty about saying "no."

I feel happy and loving when I am with them. But I have learned something, too.

But they acted like we suddenly foisted off this horrible person on them when all we asked for was one ride to the town and one ride to a shelter.

She made a mistake. She realized it en route. She could have changed her mind. She could have pulled off the road into a McDonalds and called you, while Son happily chewed on his Cheeseburger. And right then involved you and Jabber in determining what should happen next. She did not.

Same with the sister about the ride from the motel. And the sister about the pack who left it like UPS. Each of these were choices.

None of this changes one thing: Your son is responsible for the perceptions and feelings created by his own behavior. Not anybody else.

I'm ashamed that I raised a young man who would shout at his grandparents, who still throws tantrums when something goes wrong like a big, scary 3-year-old, who never listens

This is the kernel of the thing. It is not your fault. It is not my fault. We have to move on from here. To find ways to tolerate all of the feelings that come up for us. Because they do not help us or our sons.

And in my case, what has happened with the Family Reunion has motivated to try to get further diagnostic evaluation for my son, if he will consent. There may be ways he can be helped, that can be tried.

Some of what he is has to be my fault.

That is not true. By this way of thinking I am at fault for my son. Where is the solution in this? The solution is not in judging and sentencing yourself. Do you blame Jabber? He was there too? Where will you go with this Lil? Where does it end? Does it help one bit? No.

Let us get back to what happened. He threw a fit. This was not his first fit. It will not be his last. Nothing new happened that has not happened before.

I think the next step is this: If your son consents arrange an appointment with a Neuropsychologist and with a Psychiatrist. Maybe at a University Teaching Hospital in a big city.

All of this ridiculousness with the family was a unnecessary diversion. Nothing new happened. It was just a new audience.

Now is the time to pack this up. Each of the sisters has her own problems and own family. You have really not much to do with any of them. They affect you not at all.

While Son is making an idiot of himself with the girl and her father, why not think about what will be your next step? Meanwhile I will buy the books on Radical Acceptance so that I can learn how I can survive my own child, to not be so destroyed by my own feelings. With the aim to be an effective parent in the situation I find myself. And to have as good a life as I can.

My son voluntarily put himself into a treatment facility several days ago. I am coming to understand that probably he will need some kind of support for the rest of his life. I need to beef myself up.

These will be my next steps. What will be yours?

 

[Lil]

I think the next step is this: If your son consents arrange an appointment with a Neuropsychologist and with a Psychiatrist. Maybe at a University Teaching Hospital in a big city.

It'll never happen. Truly. I assure you there's no reason for me to even suggest it.

My son voluntarily put himself into a treatment facility several days ago.

That is wonderful to hear. I wish him luck.

These will be my next steps. What will be yours?

I have no idea. I think for tonight, I'm going to try very hard to emulate Scarlett O'Hara and not think about it now. I'll think about it tomorrow.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

She said she didn't believe he'd ever hurt her...when he's in his right mind...but that the way he was Monday - he scared her. At one point she mentioned his "big knife". It's a pocket knife with a 3" blade I bought him!

I do want it to be clear, he wasn't flourishing the knife mid-tantrum. He owns it, he plays with it...an annoying flip it open, flip it shut thing, like clicking a pen or cracking your knuckles...but it would not have been in his hands when he was throwing his fit.

What was the fit about, Lil?

What does that look like, when he is having a tantrum?

I took him aside once and discussed that with him; that he had really scared her. He honestly didn't understand. Didn't understand why they were so upset. Admitted he had shouted at his grandfather to keep his hands off him, when he tried to touch him mid-tantrum.

I am sorry, Lil. I think D C does understand, and that his words regarding the grands' reactions are a manipulation designed to inflame the mother heart in you and get you on his "side".

It worked.

D C knows the bewildered-child words to say. In telling you that whatever he undeniably did do was not his intention, he is excusing himself and blaming the elderly grands for overreacting.

He is telling you he is a good guy, their reactions are out of line, and none of this is his fault.

Another word for fault: responsibility.

Until he takes responsibility Lil, your D C cannot choose a different path.

Your D C is triangulating with masterful skill, Lil. He wants you in warrior mom mode and on his side.

I think there is more to this story.

You can try to learn what it is. If it were an easy thing to explain, someone would already have told you. There is fear there, Lil.

This is your child. Whether he understands why family feels this way or not (and I'm sorry Lil, but I think that he does), something has changed to the point that their feelings for D C have changed and you were not there to see it but your
D C knows what it is.

Unless Jabber's family is dysfunctional in the sense that my FOO is, not a one of them wants to hurt you or to see your D C hurt. In my family of origin, mine and D H pain and confusion were interpreted as vulnerability and things progressed from that point. In a healthy family, your reaching out for the truth together can result in a source of strength and support for you and Jabber. If you feel the family is healthy, this would be a time to come together to figure out what happened. Who heard what, who saw what, how they feel about that.

Then you will know what they know.

There is no other way to know what they know.

And I think you and Jabber need to know what changed the family's response to your son.

***

Kept repeating if they'd have just left him alone and not tried to make him read a bible verse when he was upset (he's an atheist and they know it), it never would have escalated, etc., etc. but now everything was better.

This is not taking responsibility; this is blaming and justification.

This is triangulation.

Everything is not better.

The girl's father would not even allow them to sit on the steps of the trailer they live in, much less come inside.

But instead of sleeping outdoors as he'd said, the girl has given him money for a taxi and hotel, cutting deeply into the savings for a rental and utilities.

"...the girl has given him money for a taxi and hotel...."

But no matter what they act like toward him in the future, no matter what they say or do - I don't believe HE will ever feel they love him or that he is accepted. Not ever again.

I am sorry, Lil and Jabber. Your son needs to understand that he has betrayed the family's trust. It isn't about whether he feels loved or accepted. It is about what he did.

Lil and Jabber, these are the consequences that happen to our D C in real life.

It hurts to be the parent when our children run up against people who, though they love them, do not love them as parents love ~ blindly, with belief and sincerity and great fondness and hope.

But it DOES bother me a LOT that people suddenly started acting like he's some sociopathic serial killer that's going to murder them in their sleep. I'm not just talking about your parents locking their door. Did ONE of your family members suggest he stay with them a day or two to give your parents less stress? Your youngest sis said to me before she even took him to grandma's that he couldn't be around her daughter. He'd done NOTHING at that point. The comment was made when your middle sis was saying she was going to take him to a hotel, "But you have your granddaughter." Like he's going to suddenly decide to hurt a 4 year old or something, or at lease somehow traumatize her with his presence. He is NOT dangerous and it ticks me off no end that they are acting like they have to hide their babies (and parents) from him!

It would be best to learn the why behind these behaviors, Lil and Jabber.

I am deeply sorry for the pain of it. Neither of you deserves what is happening.

But it is happening.

There is something here you are not being told. You cannot proceed correctly ~ not with your family and not with your son, either ~ until you know what it is.

There is something hitting me wrong about how little your son understood about why his grandparents were upset; how he could not understand they were afraid for their money and maybe, their lives. It bothers me how willing D C was to let bygones be bygones as long as he got what he wanted and that what he wanted was to get to the girlfriend's...but now he would have to go there with no money because bad family made him leave for nothing he understands. Suddenly, out of a clear blue sky, they don't like him; they don't treat him like family. It bothers me that you could not talk to the grandma at length because D C kept popping up.

You need the whole story, Lil and Jabber.

***

D H family was off in ten thousand directions over the mother's illnesses, manipulations, doctor's visits, diet, who did what to whom and who did more and on and on it went. We started a family email. Everyone knew how everyone else felt, straight from the horse's mouth. Two of the sibs began corresponding separately with one another. All the other sibs knew and called them on it.

The two who were building an alliance on the side were the ones with the biggest mouths and the least practical input in money or time.

Over time, that changed.

So, that might be a way for you to learn what the family knows that you do not know.

It would be important that you two come at it together, and from the same page. The question is what happened with D C to change their feelings toward him. You are looking to fill in the pieces, because the things that happened hurt and surprised you and the situation is so unusual for this close family that you know there has to be more to the story. That you need to know what it is, and that you have all come through worse things in the past, so tell us what you know or what you heard. It would be best not to come at it from the position of having been wronged or hurt.

Unless the family is dysfunctional, something has happened with D C that you know nothing about.

And in "popping up" through your entire conversation with grandma, D C made sure grandma would not tell you.

You two can meet this challenge beautifully if you stay on the same page and hold the correct attitude.

It will be a hard thing.

You can do it.

Cedar

 

[InsaneCdn]

@Scent of Cedar * - I'm NOT convinced that Lil and Jabber's son is neurotypical, and likewise not convinced that any of his behaviors are manipulation.

I know that back in the day when I was throwing major tantrums (yes, into my 20s), there was no concept of manipulation. It was purely a lashing out against things that were totally overwhelming - overload mode is what I call it now, and while I still get there, I don't tantrum any more. It took years of therapy and coaching before I even understood that a tantrum was a problem for anybody else.

Is he still responsible for the results of his reaction? Yes. People are not expected to walk on eggshells just because people like us have challenges dealing with the real world. Somehow, we do have to learn what the real world is. It's a long road.

But for someone to commit to doing something for this kid, and then do a total reversal - for a black and white thinker, that is betrayal, and it's very hard to recover from.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

My biggest issue at the beginning of this stems from my attitude on personal responsibility. My oldest sister kept harping on "this is YOUR responsibility, YOU need to deal with it". No, its not my responsibility, its my son's for his behavior. Its not my responsibility that he was at the grand's, its my sisters for arranging this.

My responsibility in this is that I was stupid enough to mention that my youngest sister might be willing to give our son a ride. As soon as he called the next day asking if she would give him another ride, I realized how badly I had screwed up. She told me on Saturday that she realized on the drive to the grand's that she had made a mistake. This was after she had been in the car with him long enough for him to go on one of his tangents about how hard he tried and how people continually screwed him over. Too late then.

In our experience, when family cannot change the D C either, they wash their hands of it. They have gone out of their ways; they have done their best.

It didn't work. Oftentimes, the consequences were not foreseen or even, imagined.

The family member will have been traumatized. Until confronted with a D C in full flower, there is not a person in the world who doesn't believe they could help them where we could not.

It's a horrible shock to come aware of what has happened to a niece or nephew or grand. It's a horrible shock to feel yourself vulnerable to someone you love. It's a horrible shock to see all that right up close and not be able to fix it.

Believe it or not, your family's sympathies lie with you and Lil.

What we wanted too, was for our families not to treat D C differently.

Realistically, that is not going to happen until the D C changes.

When our D C changed, family made themselves available; in this way, trust can begin to be rewoven.

In some cases, there will be no reweaving.

In some cases, these things that have happened will be used to justify all kinds of things that were part of an agenda the other person has held, all along.

This has nothing to do with you.

You and Lil are being challenged; meet it with integrity and purpose and heart.

I am sorry this is happening.

Cedar

 

[DoneDad]

I know you're hurting from this reunion experience. I hope you can let go of all this craziness and try to be happy. Your son's plans and actions are not in sync with reality and whoever gets drawn in to them is going to suffer. He plans to live in the woods behind a trailer park and mooch off an underage girl he met on the Internet, while her new step-father looks on? How is that not going to be a disaster? My own daughter has come up with scenarios just as bizarre as that. The only thing you can do is detach. Let him know your honest opinion of what he is doing and tell him you're not going to be part of it.

If family members choose to get sucked in, let them know you won't be riding in to the rescue when it goes south. They want to step in and save them and show you how it's done, until they see what it is you've been dealing with ... Then it's "hey he's your kid you handle him."

None of this is a criticism or judgement of you. I know dealing with a Difficult Child is hard enough, then add in extended family dynamics and it gets really fun. You can't control him, you can't control them, so focus on what you can control, which is yourself.

 

[Jabberwockey]

You need the whole story, Lil and Jabber.

We will be meeting with the grand's some time in the future to discuss this. They are still visiting with family several hours away. I think its really more simple than all this. My siblings weren't aware of all the issues that we've gone through with our son an my parents thought they could handle it and were wrong. One of my sisters involved in this texted me yesterday morning to say she loves us and sorry. I haven't responded yet because I love you too but I'm still pissed just doesn't seem to cover it.

Unless the family is dysfunctional, something has happened with D C that you know nothing about.

No, we aren't dysfunctional any more than the average family. Yes, we all have our issues but no big. Like I said, I think my sibs were trying to help but truly didn't understand so went into over protective mode for our parents.