He's been kicked out of the shelter
- Thread starter Lil
- Start date
Lil
Well-Known Member
You Canadian's are a hardy breed!
I freeze between my office and car at anything colder than freezing. lol
Lil
Well-Known Member
Oh...nearly forgot. He called both of our cell phones and our landline at 1:30 this morning! We don't have any of those in our bedroom, so we didn't hear them...but WTH? No idea what he wanted because he didn't leave a message anywhere, but I'm sure something catastrophic had happened...like he was cold and wanted a ride. I'm equally sure I'll get a call later.
That will NEVER happen at 1:30 a.m. There's a reason we don't keep a phone in our bedroom.
That will NEVER happen at 1:30 a.m. There's a reason we don't keep a phone in our bedroom.
Well at 2 a.m. when you are walking 2 1/2 miles and the wind chill is 0 degrees (that's about -18 to the metric-using world) or colder, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter whether you are in Alaska or Missouri.
Lil I have been racking my brain thinking about what we are going to do with my difficult child when he finishes his half way house. I have been looking at Craig's list just to get an idea of prices around us. In my area there are a number of postings of people looking for roommates. I don't know if your son could find a roommate on Craigs list. He might be able to avoid a deposit that way.
Lil
Well-Known Member
Since you mentioned this, I checked. There's nothing really. A single ad for a roommate in an apartment that's way too far away for him to still work where he does without transportation.
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Let's see his is kicked out of your house because you finally got the balls to throw him out for multiple thefts, and now you are thinking of letting come home because he has been kicked out of the homeless shelter for failing to follow the rules? Do you see anything wrong with your logic??? Lil, can I come stay at your house, what a setup - you two just go out and work and I'll come kick it on back at your house, and yes, I'll go through all your things and take all the good/pawn-able stuff. Sounds like an excellent set up!!!
LAUGHING as hard as I CAN!
LAUGHING as hard as I CAN!BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I wish I had good advice.
My son lives near St. Louis and I think Missouri is insufferably HOT...lol. I went there in the summer once and could barely tolerate watching my grandson playing soccer. My son tells me it rarely snows in Missouri. Can't be that cold. Nothing that a winter coat wouldn't take care of. Never heard of anyone freezing to death in MIssouri, although I guess it could happen. But it's not a really cold state. I heard it's 50 degrees there today (ahhhhh, summer!) and it's 10 degress here and that's after it "warmed" up. The weather and Missouri just did strike me as a bit funny as if it's 50 degrees I don't even wear a coat, just a sweatshirt.
I don't know what you should do, honest. I don't know what you can stomach doing. I think that you and Jab have come a long way. I do think your kid plays you a lot, but I also think you know that. I have no answers, but I do take this seriously. It has to be hard to watch him floundering like this. And he COULD have a mild form of Aspergers. I asked about that because that can seriously impede your common sense and decision making skills. My son was adopted out of a very bad neighborhood in Chidago. If he had grown up there, he is so naive and vulnerable I'm sure he'd be running drugs for gangbangers. He would do it to please. Aspies tend to be very emotionally young with young interests and extremely naive about life.
I always tell Sonic to stay in at night. Even here in a small area without a lot of crime, I shudder to think of him on the streets at night. He would NOT be hard to rob. His only "advantage" (and I do say this sort of tongue in cheek) is that we live in an area that is probably 85% white and he is African-American, big and very solid and people may be afraid of HIM due to stereotypes. Still, I worry about him more than any of my other kids because he is so vulnerable. Maybe your son is vulnerable too...he sure lets his "friends" (ahem...cough...the J's) play around with his head. He doesn't sound like a bad kid at all. Just like something isn't really working right, although I believe he is quite bright. I hope you get what I mean...(sigh). Bright but maybe not street smart?
My son lives near St. Louis and I think Missouri is insufferably HOT...lol. I went there in the summer once and could barely tolerate watching my grandson playing soccer. My son tells me it rarely snows in Missouri. Can't be that cold. Nothing that a winter coat wouldn't take care of. Never heard of anyone freezing to death in MIssouri, although I guess it could happen. But it's not a really cold state. I heard it's 50 degrees there today (ahhhhh, summer!) and it's 10 degress here and that's after it "warmed" up. The weather and Missouri just did strike me as a bit funny as if it's 50 degrees I don't even wear a coat, just a sweatshirt.
I don't know what you should do, honest. I don't know what you can stomach doing. I think that you and Jab have come a long way. I do think your kid plays you a lot, but I also think you know that. I have no answers, but I do take this seriously. It has to be hard to watch him floundering like this. And he COULD have a mild form of Aspergers. I asked about that because that can seriously impede your common sense and decision making skills. My son was adopted out of a very bad neighborhood in Chidago. If he had grown up there, he is so naive and vulnerable I'm sure he'd be running drugs for gangbangers. He would do it to please. Aspies tend to be very emotionally young with young interests and extremely naive about life.
I always tell Sonic to stay in at night. Even here in a small area without a lot of crime, I shudder to think of him on the streets at night. He would NOT be hard to rob. His only "advantage" (and I do say this sort of tongue in cheek) is that we live in an area that is probably 85% white and he is African-American, big and very solid and people may be afraid of HIM due to stereotypes. Still, I worry about him more than any of my other kids because he is so vulnerable. Maybe your son is vulnerable too...he sure lets his "friends" (ahem...cough...the J's) play around with his head. He doesn't sound like a bad kid at all. Just like something isn't really working right, although I believe he is quite bright. I hope you get what I mean...(sigh). Bright but maybe not street smart?
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Ah, Lil, sorry I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, only meant for you to revise what you have been through and see that it is illogical for you to even think that he should come home. Sense out of nonsense, K? I think you wanting to bring him home for a while is your solution because he has no solution for this box he has created for himself so good ole mom, out of desperation, is willing to say, sigh, I guess we will have to take him back for a while. What message would that be sending to difficult child son? The one he is already preparing himself for- if I screw things up bad enough I'll just go home to mom's. AND THEN, trust me on this, he is going to steal from you again.
Remember I told you IF HE DID get kicked out of the shelter and you said he wouldn't, that it would not happen before his 30 days were up and then of course IT DID HAPPEN. So I can almost guarantee if he moves back in with you he will steal from you/Jabber.
You are stuck with a difficult child and on your part the game is UN-winnable. See the thing is, it is like a carnival game, you don't see the slights of hands, the tricks, they use to make sure they win and you don't. Give up the control - stand with your husband and take your hands off the controls, because you are never going have a normal life trying to run the life of a difficult child. Let you son figure out where he is going if he screws up again. That's right, even you have said he is a smart young man LET HIM FIGURE IT OUT! You have already made your choice - he is out because he steals. Does that mean he is out because he steals or only until he screws up somewhere else (which he also did with the 9K you spent on college)
I hate to say I told you so, but in this case I think you need to hear it. He treated the homeless shelter like it was a summer camp. He does not believe it at all that you will not let him back in your house. And by what you are posting, in a way, you are agreeing with him.
These things are I post are not meant to hurt your feelings but darn it Lil, to get through to you what you are unwilling to hear. He is what he is, and he does as he pleases, the same as all of us. Only in this case part of what he does is lie and steal. Which is unacceptable to you and your husband (and dis-respectful and ungrateful in my humble opinion) Allowing him to come home again would be like saying go ahead and steal from us again.
That is why I was being sarcastic (funny) and also why you couldn't see it, you are really not prepared to accept an answer that means you have no say in what happens to him, that he is truly on his own.
Remember I told you IF HE DID get kicked out of the shelter and you said he wouldn't, that it would not happen before his 30 days were up and then of course IT DID HAPPEN. So I can almost guarantee if he moves back in with you he will steal from you/Jabber.
You are stuck with a difficult child and on your part the game is UN-winnable. See the thing is, it is like a carnival game, you don't see the slights of hands, the tricks, they use to make sure they win and you don't. Give up the control - stand with your husband and take your hands off the controls, because you are never going have a normal life trying to run the life of a difficult child. Let you son figure out where he is going if he screws up again. That's right, even you have said he is a smart young man LET HIM FIGURE IT OUT! You have already made your choice - he is out because he steals. Does that mean he is out because he steals or only until he screws up somewhere else (which he also did with the 9K you spent on college)
I hate to say I told you so, but in this case I think you need to hear it. He treated the homeless shelter like it was a summer camp. He does not believe it at all that you will not let him back in your house. And by what you are posting, in a way, you are agreeing with him.
These things are I post are not meant to hurt your feelings but darn it Lil, to get through to you what you are unwilling to hear. He is what he is, and he does as he pleases, the same as all of us. Only in this case part of what he does is lie and steal. Which is unacceptable to you and your husband (and dis-respectful and ungrateful in my humble opinion) Allowing him to come home again would be like saying go ahead and steal from us again.
That is why I was being sarcastic (funny) and also why you couldn't see it, you are really not prepared to accept an answer that means you have no say in what happens to him, that he is truly on his own.
Childofmine
one day at a time
Hey lil yes my difficult child was homeless and worked at McDonald's for nearly three months. He had no car. He worked 40 plus hours a week. He trained at one mcdonalds that was two to four miles from the shelter where he slept on a bench outside and from the motels where he homeless in our town rent cheap rooms by the night or week. He did this for between eight weeks and ten weeks. He did borrow a bike from a friend who was arrested and was in jail so after a while he had that. He would have to get up most nights between two and three am and walk to work before the bike. He also had no phone and no alarm clock (nothing to plug a clock into when you are sleeping outside anyway). He would not stay at a shelter. So it was sleep outside or pool money with other homeless and get a cheap room here and there.
After he got stabbed we got him some motel rooms for about two weeks then he was homeless again.
His dad (my ex) called me in late October to say he thought difficult child was ready for our help to get an apartment. difficult child moved in oct 26 with our help. He had been out of jail and homeless since June 26.
I had mixed emotions about helping but agreed to provide some limited assistance. So far okay...not perfect but he had made progress in multiple areas. Now working two jobs---one 48 hours a week and one 25 hours a week. Still at mcds plus a boat manufacturer.
Lil they can survive. You would truly be surprised at how resilient they can be if they have to be.
After he got stabbed we got him some motel rooms for about two weeks then he was homeless again.
His dad (my ex) called me in late October to say he thought difficult child was ready for our help to get an apartment. difficult child moved in oct 26 with our help. He had been out of jail and homeless since June 26.
I had mixed emotions about helping but agreed to provide some limited assistance. So far okay...not perfect but he had made progress in multiple areas. Now working two jobs---one 48 hours a week and one 25 hours a week. Still at mcds plus a boat manufacturer.
Lil they can survive. You would truly be surprised at how resilient they can be if they have to be.
Childofmine
one day at a time
My son has walked three to four miles day after day in freezing weather. I hope remembering that will help him not go back to that life again. My son usually does everything the absolute hardest way possible and always has.
Lil
Well-Known Member
Well yeah...in the summer it can get over 100. lol But that's summer. This isn't summer.
Well, it might be 50 somewhere in Missouri. But right now here it's 26 and the low tonight is supposed to be 16. The highs are supposed to be between 35 to 40 the next few days, but Sunday 25. (All this from weather.com. It certainly snows. Not New York 6' of snow...but we get snow and sleet and ice, not all the time, but a few times each summer. Yes...people freeze to death. In fact I read about someone very recently found dead under a bridge.
Basically, this is Missouri.
Sometimes in the same month.I saw the sarcasm. I just didn't appreciate it. There are kinder ways to say "I told you so".
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
OK let's hug it out 
Lil
Well-Known Member
I understand you didn't mean any harm. I just get very tired of being told I'm naïve and don't know my own son and "I told you so". Even if it is true.
And darn it if it were freaking spring, summer or fall this discussion wouldn't even be happening, because I'd not think twice about saying, "Sleep on a park bench." But it's not. It's below freezing. It's a totally different thing. This is not a rationalization - it's a fact. I want him to learn. I want him to figure things out. I don't want him to freaking die in the process!
And darn it if it were freaking spring, summer or fall this discussion wouldn't even be happening, because I'd not think twice about saying, "Sleep on a park bench." But it's not. It's below freezing. It's a totally different thing. This is not a rationalization - it's a fact. I want him to learn. I want him to figure things out. I don't want him to freaking die in the process!
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Childofmine
one day at a time
No question that this is very very hard and when it's cold outside, we moms struggle the most. That is because we love them. We want the best for them. If we could fix it, we would have already. It's not right or wrong, it's what we can live with. That is all any of us can decide and then do.
Warm hugs and Happy New Year! We'll keep struggling on...
Warm hugs and Happy New Year! We'll keep struggling on...
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Lil, let me tell you something that I hope will help you understand where I am coming from. As I have freely posted here my daughter is a sociopath. Therefore there is not one trick game that has been played on me for control and manipulation. Where you are right now, in the deepest pain of it, not being able to understand it, is the way I would have to live EVER, SINGLE, DAY if I wanted a relationship with her. The thing is you get so damned tired of playing the game and people with either mental health and/or personality disorder, especially ones that are younger than you can just whip you 
in head games. And the more you move your boundaries back, the more they push not only that boundary but they start chipping away at the next one. As I have acknowledged to you in other posts, I don't know if your son is a true difficult child although the DNA is there however I have read all of your posts and what he does do is push every single boundary you lay down for him. Whether he outgrows this or not is anyone's guess. However, you have another very important person who really does love you in your life, your husband. It is not fair of you to keep pushing on his boundaries because you are tired and afraid. It is not fair to force your husband to live with someone who acts the way your son acts just because that son has pushed himself (willing and fully knowing the rules) in to a huge, horrible box.
For me I can't live with the head-games and if you were as physically sick as I am you might not be able to either.
Where I do see similarities with my daughter and your son, is even if you think it is going to hurt them more than it will hurt you they are going to do what they want to do JUST TO push your buttons. That's right, they actually get more out of the situation having you hang by a thread then they do with any other consequence to themselves. It's a game they love and they are more determined to beat you at their mind-eff games than anything else they do. That is their own personal power. That IS their inner world. A world where they will get down and dirty and pull you right down with them for the fun of it. Does is feel fun?
No, of course not, but it's not your game and you are not invested in winning, lets say for this round "getting back into the house". You are invested in seeming him grow up and start acting like a man. He is not. Why behave and act "normal" when he can snap his fingers and get you to jump?
It's a lot more complicated than I am explaining it to you here, but trust me, I am on your side to see what you are dealing with. I have 20 years of this crap on you Lil, trust me I would never want anyone to have to walk this road. I just hope by sharing that you don't just blindly continue down the road your difficult child son is leading you. You don't deserve that and neither does your husband.
in head games. And the more you move your boundaries back, the more they push not only that boundary but they start chipping away at the next one. As I have acknowledged to you in other posts, I don't know if your son is a true difficult child although the DNA is there however I have read all of your posts and what he does do is push every single boundary you lay down for him. Whether he outgrows this or not is anyone's guess. However, you have another very important person who really does love you in your life, your husband. It is not fair of you to keep pushing on his boundaries because you are tired and afraid. It is not fair to force your husband to live with someone who acts the way your son acts just because that son has pushed himself (willing and fully knowing the rules) in to a huge, horrible box. For me I can't live with the head-games and if you were as physically sick as I am you might not be able to either.
Where I do see similarities with my daughter and your son, is even if you think it is going to hurt them more than it will hurt you they are going to do what they want to do JUST TO push your buttons. That's right, they actually get more out of the situation having you hang by a thread then they do with any other consequence to themselves. It's a game they love and they are more determined to beat you at their mind-eff games than anything else they do. That is their own personal power. That IS their inner world. A world where they will get down and dirty and pull you right down with them for the fun of it. Does is feel fun?
No, of course not, but it's not your game and you are not invested in winning, lets say for this round "getting back into the house". You are invested in seeming him grow up and start acting like a man. He is not. Why behave and act "normal" when he can snap his fingers and get you to jump?
It's a lot more complicated than I am explaining it to you here, but trust me, I am on your side to see what you are dealing with. I have 20 years of this crap on you Lil, trust me I would never want anyone to have to walk this road. I just hope by sharing that you don't just blindly continue down the road your difficult child son is leading you. You don't deserve that and neither does your husband.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
Lil, where is the friend staying?
Trying to know what to do when difficult child daughter was homeless in winter was one of the most harrowing experiences we have had.
Is renting a room at an Extended Stay or better yet, some very, very cheap dive a possibility? I am not suggesting the cheap dive to be mean. The other homeless people will be there in the room if you do rent one for him. Rent it cash so they don't have access to your credit card if you can. I have posted before about learning that difficult child daughter had been blacklisted even from the worst dives in the city where she was. They all go to the room, and they party there.
And things get broken.
And parents' credit cards get charged.
So do it cash.
difficult child daughter survived a northern Minnesota blizzard and very cold Spring, Lil. The homeless community break into abandoned buildings, set up tent cities, things like that. The shelters will help them.
It helped me, when it was time for us to make our decision, to talk to the people at the shelter. Just to learn what I could. (We have another house near where difficult child was homeless. The thing is, had we let her go there, she would not have been living there alone. A certain number of her homeless friends would have gone there, too....)
Tough decisions.
Tough decision, either way.
If MWM question regarding deficit or gullibility plays a part in your child's situation, contact Social Services.
***
This is a very hard thing to learn. There is nothing where the loving comes easy about parenting an active difficult child.
You do need to quit catastrophizing...but that is not the mom you wanted to be.
That's the hurt of it.
It helps me to be consciously grateful for the love and beauty and joy I do have. It isn't (for me anyway) so much about letting the rest go as it is to understand that our situations are different because our children are different and so, we have to parent differently.
It has been painful in a way I can't describe to learn to stand in that different place. I understand what I am doing now to be the best thing.
So I am doing it.
This current stance, this choosing to believe in the competence and intelligence and integrity of my children and essentially, telling them they will be just fine without me is working well. For me, and for them.
difficult child son still messes with chemicals.
Which is why I like this:
So that is where I am going to get to regarding money, and regarding emotional currency as well, with my son.
So, this has gotten to be all about me. But in a way, that is what it's all about. We suffer because the joy we have is so different than the love and joy and generous peace we insist must be the way it looks before we can claim happiness, before we can rest. We touched on this once on another thread. Each of the parents here seems to be one of those people who can make things happen. This is a piece of what we don't get about our kids.
We don't get that they don't care about making it happen.
It's mind-boggling.
Our troubled kids are very bright, for the most part. They have us behind them. They could do whatever they wanted.
That's the betrayal of it.
Cedar
Trying to know what to do when difficult child daughter was homeless in winter was one of the most harrowing experiences we have had.
Is renting a room at an Extended Stay or better yet, some very, very cheap dive a possibility? I am not suggesting the cheap dive to be mean. The other homeless people will be there in the room if you do rent one for him. Rent it cash so they don't have access to your credit card if you can. I have posted before about learning that difficult child daughter had been blacklisted even from the worst dives in the city where she was. They all go to the room, and they party there.
And things get broken.
And parents' credit cards get charged.
So do it cash.
difficult child daughter survived a northern Minnesota blizzard and very cold Spring, Lil. The homeless community break into abandoned buildings, set up tent cities, things like that. The shelters will help them.
It helped me, when it was time for us to make our decision, to talk to the people at the shelter. Just to learn what I could. (We have another house near where difficult child was homeless. The thing is, had we let her go there, she would not have been living there alone. A certain number of her homeless friends would have gone there, too....)
Tough decisions.
Tough decision, either way.
If MWM question regarding deficit or gullibility plays a part in your child's situation, contact Social Services.
***
This is a very hard thing to learn. There is nothing where the loving comes easy about parenting an active difficult child.
You do need to quit catastrophizing...but that is not the mom you wanted to be.
That's the hurt of it.
I think I have to come to terms with
the fact that my life is never going to be what I expected. Many parts of my life are very close to perfect (Jabber) and I have to cling to those parts and let the rest go.
It helps me to be consciously grateful for the love and beauty and joy I do have. It isn't (for me anyway) so much about letting the rest go as it is to understand that our situations are different because our children are different and so, we have to parent differently.
It has been painful in a way I can't describe to learn to stand in that different place. I understand what I am doing now to be the best thing.
So I am doing it.
This current stance, this choosing to believe in the competence and intelligence and integrity of my children and essentially, telling them they will be just fine without me is working well. For me, and for them.
difficult child son still messes with chemicals.
Which is why I like this:
So that is where I am going to get to regarding money, and regarding emotional currency as well, with my son.
So, this has gotten to be all about me. But in a way, that is what it's all about. We suffer because the joy we have is so different than the love and joy and generous peace we insist must be the way it looks before we can claim happiness, before we can rest. We touched on this once on another thread. Each of the parents here seems to be one of those people who can make things happen. This is a piece of what we don't get about our kids.
We don't get that they don't care about making it happen.
It's mind-boggling.
Our troubled kids are very bright, for the most part. They have us behind them. They could do whatever they wanted.
That's the betrayal of it.
Cedar
Lil
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I disagree. That is not my son. He's manipulative. I'll give you that. He is willing to do a lot to get his own way. But he does not do this just for some twisted pleasure or satisfaction. I'll give you manipulative, lazy, entitled...but that is not him. You are wrong.
