He's been kicked out of the shelter

[pasajes4]

My son is the same age as your son. They are immature and do not think about the future beyond the next 2 hours much less the next 2 decades. When I was 19, I considered myself to be mature and responsible. I still made stupid mistakes, because I lacked life experience. He will make mistakes. He will survive. How many times have you driven by the apartment?

 

[Albatross]

Lil, to be quite honest, I really think it is time for giving everyone some distance. He's not going to change overnight, but he has all the support he needs to change if he wants to. He has a job and the means to feed himself. He is close enough to get to that job. If it's pouring rain, he can take his umbrella. A little rain never hurt anybody.

You and Jabber have given him shelter, and with that you have the knowledge that he is warm and that you have done all you could have done for him. As Cedar said, paying for the apartment was more for YOUR sake than his, so that you would truly know that you had given him a fair shot at making his life right again. I agree that it is time to let go of the outcome. The pitch has been thrown. He will hit it or he won't.

 

[Tanya M]

This whole thread is such a deja vu for me. Over the years we paid for two apartments and then bought a modest house in order to help our difficult child. I remember the first apartment we paid for, I went to Goodwill and dollar stores and bought dishes, pots and pans, towels, etc... you know all the "basic" things you need. The apt. was unfurnished and we told difficult child that it would be a while before we could help furnish it and he responded with "you mean I have to sleep on the floor" "what about a t.v., can't you get me a t.v." This was when he was 19. This was after he was released from 2 years in Y.O.S (youthful offenders system - prison for juvenile's) The two years he was locked up husband and I would drive every 2 weeks to visit him, 3 hours one way!! We put money on his account so he could have extra's. You would like to think that after being locked up for 2 years that there would be some gratitude for helping him out.
He did manage to get a job and started paying his rent after we paid it for 6 months. I remember thinking, "this is it, he's finally going to get it together" That sense of peace was short lived. One day he told me he was getting a cell phone because he "needed" one. I told him that was a bad idea, he had a land line at his apt. that cost $15 a month, the cell phone was going to cost him $80. He did what he wanted, got the cell phone, then stopped paying the rent then got evicted then homeless.
Fast forward, no more Y.O.S. this time it was adult prison for 2 years. In the mean time husband and I had moved across the country to his hometown to help care for his aging parents. difficult child gets released, I fly out, get him, fly him back here. husband and I decided to purchase a small house for difficult child to live in, it was a foreclosure and took longer to close on so in the meantime we rented an apt. for difficult child to live in until the house was ready. There was also the purchase of a car too. Needless to say, it didn't end well, more years of manipulation and chaos, continuing to blame us for how screwed up his life is. (We still have the house and are now landlords to a lovely family.) difficult child chose to go back to our home state of CO where he has been in jail twice, he's now homeless in a mountain town. He reached out to me a little over a month ago to get a copy of his birth cert. because he has no ID. I had to send away for a copy from the state, received it in the mail on Fri. difficult child gave me an address of a friend that I can mail it to. This is my last act of "helping" my difficult child. His 34th birthday is this month. I'm not sure if he will ever get his life together, I hope someday he will.

Last year husband and I celebrated our 25th anniversary by taking a trip to Italy. Up until this point husband and I did not have our wills written and because this was an overseas trip we decided we better make sure our house was in order just in case. We had our wills written up and put our homes, etc.... into a trust for our grandchildren (the one's difficult child has abandoned). Some might think it cold but difficult child will get nothing from us. We have worked too hard for too many years to have him squander it all away. I am at peace with it.

Lil and Jabber I so hope your son will get his life on track. I know exactly what you are going through. All I can offer is if he doesn't, don't waste as many years as my husband and I did, not to mention the money.

 

[Lil]

More and more, young people are unable to afford a car and the payments that go with it, so if he doesn't get a car for a while because you guys used your money helping him in other ways - that is OK too.

Oh I so don't care about a car. We put him walking distance from work. This is not such a large town that you can't walk a lot of places. We do have buses - until 5:30 at night at least - and he can buy a bus pass. He wants the car he's been driving since he got his license, but it's ours and we offered to give it to him twice. First, when he turned 16 we told him to get a job and pay for insurance and it was his when he graduated. He didn't. When he went to college we told him, "Get decent grades and when you graduate, it's yours." He didn't. He wants it now he can get a bank loan and pay for it...and build a credit rating while he's at it.

How many times have you driven by the apartment?

Not once. In fact, it's right across the street from a restaurant that I like quite a bit. I intend to avoid it.

I really think it is time for giving everyone some distance. He's not going to change overnight, but he has all the support he needs to change if he wants to. He has a job and the means to feed himself. He is close enough to get to that job. If it's pouring rain, he can take his umbrella. A little rain never hurt anybody.

The only reason I'm willing to give a ride is even with a rain coat, umbrella, etc., and I've ended up soaked from the knees down walking 1/10th the distance. He is cleaning a building, so he can't be squishing his way through work. lol However, it's about 18 degrees today and the low is 5 tonight...not including wind chill. I fully intend to text him later and tell him that cold is not rain and he best bundle up and walk fast.

Last year husband and I celebrated our 25th anniversary by taking a trip to Italy. Up until this point husband and I did not have our wills written and because this was an overseas trip we decided we better make sure our house was in order just in case. We had our wills written up and put our homes, etc.... into a trust for our grandchildren (the one's difficult child has abandoned). Some might think it cold but difficult child will get nothing from us. We have worked too hard for too many years to have him squander it all away. I am at peace with it.

We when to Italy for our 10th! It was the BEST time of my life. I would live there if I could. Our son was 15 and my in-laws house-sat and took care of him and our pets. We were supposed to be gone 2 weeks, Rome, Belgium and Paris, but the volcano in Iceland blew up and we got stranded in Italy and our 14 days of vacation turned into 19 just in Italy. Strangely, no one seemed to feel sorry for us. I will never forget coming home and our son greeting us with this HUGE smile. It might have been the only time I felt like he was really happy to see us.

We don't have a will. Yep...lawyers never take care of their own business. But I fully intend to do so soon and the money will go into a trust (we don't have money...but we have a LOT of life insurance) until he's at least 30. I shudder to think what would happen if he got all that life insurance money at once. He doesn't have a clue about that though...we've always kind of made it sound like we're worse off financially than we actually are.

All I can offer is if he doesn't, don't waste as many years as my husband and I did, not to mention the money.

Folks, honestly, we are done! If he screws this up, we are done helping entirely.

 

[pasajes4]

Not once. In fact, it's right across the street from a restaurant that I like quite a bit. I intend to avoid it.

Your getting there!

 

[BusynMember]

On a different topic (sorry, Lil, please forgive me)...Jabby, why are the Lions making the Cowboys look worse than the Cardinals in yesterday's game?????

Oh, well. It will be fun to watch the Lions get killed in Seattle and we should beat the Jaguars next week.

But honestly...I think Romo is panicking again.

Ok, Lil, sorry again. Back to your original topic. by the way, good for you, not driving by. I'm crossing my fingers, eyes, toes and anything else I can cross for good luck...for your son The Cowboys...well, I think they are hopeless!

 

[Tanya M]

I will never forget coming home and our son greeting us with this HUGE smile. It might have been the only time I felt like he was really happy to see us.

What a sweet memory. In the midst of the chaos and drama it's nice to have some memories that are good.

14 days of vacation turned into 19 just in Italy. Strangely, no one seemed to feel sorry for us.

How awesome that must have been!! Yes, I too could live in Italy. Hope to go again someday.

 

[Albatross]

Lil, now that I'm getting a little distance on handling things for my difficult child, I find myself worrying WAY TOO MUCH about handling things for yours lol.

I have to admit, I'm getting too emotionally involved in this one, so if I bow out for awhile on this thread, it's because I am struggling with my own letting go issues!

I just wonder if he isn't getting mixed messages -- that he sees this as you saying you want him to man up and be independent, then you showing him in your actions that you don't think he's capable of it.

I've ended up soaked from the knees down walking 1/10th the distance. He is cleaning a building, so he can't be squishing his way through work. lol

Or you could let him get soaked, like you did, and assume that he can handle walking in a hard rain and the aftermath.

I fully intend to text him later and tell him that cold is not rain and he best bundle up and walk fast.

Or you could assume that at his age he will know to bundle up and walk fast when it's cold outside.

I dunno, Lil...I just wonder if things wouldn't be better for everybody if you just took a big step back for awhile and let him live and learn.

I am probably out of line for saying that, and Lord knows I don't have much to brag about if one looks at the results of my parenting. But I think of you and the other regulars on here as dear friends, so I felt like I had to put this out there. This is said with gentle hugs and loving concern for you, Jabber, and difficult child.

 

[Lil]

Lil, now that I'm getting a little distance on handling things for my difficult child, I find myself worrying WAY TOO MUCH about handling things for yours lol.
I have to admit, I'm getting too emotionally involved in this one, so if I bow out for awhile on this thread, it's because I am struggling with my own letting go issues!

Or you could assume that at his age he will know to bundle up and walk fast when it's cold outside.

I'll consider that, but my fear is he just assumes I'll say yes...so he'll wait until almost the last minute and then he'll end up late when I say no. God knows I don't want him losing his job because he's so used to me saying yes. I don't know.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, if he waits too long then he'll lose his job. Correct. Isn't the point of this to see if he can be responsible for himself? If he loses his job he can find another job in fast food. And if he doesn't try to get another job, he is violating his part of your agreement.

At some point, you have to let him get his own jobs, get to work on time, get fired, mess up and figure it out himself, etc.

I mean, I don't really care if you drive him. It is none of my business. But I do think it defeats the entire purpose of what you have done for him. Again, though, if that's ok with you, it sure is ok with me

 

[Albatross]

"...because he's so used to me saying yes. I don't know."

Yes, I see what you mean. There's definitely an adjustment process that has to take place.

Well, in the interests of full disclosure, I am married to an attorney and have some insight into how you guys think lol. And I think you are probably a very good one, Lil. You see all possible outcomes and plan accordingly.

Again said gently, but maybe rather than pre-empting things, see IF he waits until the last minute and wants a ride? Maybe he will pleasantly surprise you. If not, then you can either give him a ride just this once with an explanation that you won't be doing it again, or you can tell him sorry but he should have planned things out better, and let him suffer the consequences.

Then again, well and truly, what do I know? Just putting it out there for consideration.

 

[Lil]

Well...I didn't text and here's a shocker, he just called. It is about 7 degrees, wind chill probably 0. We told him to bundle up, walk fast and he'd survive.

Why does it bother me so much to let him be cold?

 

[BusynMember]

Maybe, Lil, you are seeing him as that little boy again...you know, that mother thing we all do. Sometimes we look at our grown men and see them as little boys who needed us to zip up their heavy coats and put on their boots and mittens and hats because they could get distracted and forget and may get frostbitten, as they didn't even know what frostbitten is.

But your son does know. He won't let that happen. Our young adults can handle more than we think. In this cold Wisonsin weathr, many teenagers walk to school in that weather IN SHORTS!!!! With no coats. I don't understand it. These are many PCs, but it seems they just do it to be cool or whatever. I'm glad Jumper never did that, however, she also almost never wore a coat. She had a three block walk to school and said, "I don't need a coat." REALLY?????

My mommy genes kicked up big time, but it didn't make her wear a coat and she survived.

LIl, in short, I think you're just being a mom, but he can take care of the cold weather. He will be fine

 

[Albatross]

Oops...well, you called it right, Lil, and I will keep my opinions to myself. Sorry about that.

But good on you and him for letting him handle it! And he will be fine.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Albatross Active Member
New
Oops...well, you called it right, Lil, and I will keep my opinions to myself. Sorry about that.

Hehehehe! Honestly, we had no doubt that he would call. It was just a matter of whether or not he called with time to still walk. Lil was expecting him to call around 20 minutes till.

 

[Tanya M]

Why does it bother me so much to let him be cold?

Because you're a mom who loves her child.

Maybe, Lil, you are seeing him as that little boy again...you know, that mother thing we all do. Sometimes we look at our grown men and see them as little boys who needed us to zip up their heavy coats and put on their boots and mittens and hats because they could get distracted and forget and may get frostbitten, as they didn't even know what frostbitten is.

It took me a while to get over this one. I had to keep reminding myself that while he may act like a child by not being responsible he is not a child and by my continuing to treat him like one was not helping him or me.

It would be nice if our emotions had an on/off switch where our difficult child's are concerned. Even if one detaches "cold turkey" you still have emotions that you have to process.

 

[pasajes4]

If you tell him you are done you must be done. You cannot be done except for x, y, and z. He will continue to call until he absolutely knows that you are not going to cave. He has point blank told you that he knows if he pushes back hard enough, you will cave. His cell phone is his weapon of choice especially when it is late at night and the weather is cruddy.

 

[Jabberwockey]

No, it is just a weapon, period. Dial, ring, ,boo-hoo, bam - get needs met

Can't argue that but he is in for a rude awakening. Especially since the cell contract ends at the same time as the lease. He's been warned that we're cutting the phone off in June but I'd bet money that he is neither planning for nor expecting it to happen.

 

[pasajes4]

Jabber, I can tell you what your son is thinking. My parents don't mean what they say about not helping me. They are still paying for my cell phone, they are paying for my apartment, they give me rides, they buy me food, and they tell me one thing but do the opposite. He must not need that phone very much since J1 is the one who has it most of the time. I would not be paying for it anymore contract or no contract. June is a long way off for someone who can't even plan for the same day.

 

[Lil]

My parents don't mean what they say about not helping me. They are still paying for my cell phone, they are paying for my apartment, they give me rides, they buy me food, and they tell me one thing but do the opposite. He must not need that phone very much since J1 is the one who has it most of the time. I would not be paying for it anymore contract or no contract. June is a long way off for someone who can't even plan for the same day.

Actually, we've never said we wouldn't help him before this. We've always been willing to occasionally give him food, buy him necessities, pay for his phone. Always. We've never told him otherwise.

We told him we are not willing to pay for his apartment. We were willing to pay the deposit and first months rent and get him food enough to last to payday. He's been told now that this is it. Except for a ride if it's pouring rain, we're not paying for anything or doing anything else. He's been told if he screws us over...if we have to pay the rent because he blows his money...we're done. We will never give him any more assistance. Not another penny. If he doesn't believe it and screws up? Well, he'll learn the hard way when he's sleeping in a park this summer.

We told him we'd pay the phone until June and we will. (J-1 is currently out of the picture but my son was told that we'll cut it off if he starts giving it to J-1 again.) Still, I'm not going back on my word - what does that teach? That it's okay to go back on your word? I've never, ever done that and I won't start now.

We don't lie. We don't break promises. It's not who we are.

If you tell him you are done you must be done. You cannot be done except for x, y, and z.

I disagree. I don't think it is that black and white, all or nothing. He can ask - I expect him to ask, it's what he does...but we'll say no except for those very minor things we've offered. Offered being key. WE suggested those things, the ride in the rain and the phone. If we say we'll do something, we'll do it. He asks for anything other than what we've offered, he's out of luck.