I had to say it...

[Lil]

You may all be right. Maybe we should have put him on psychiatric hold. Maybe we should have not bailed him out. Maybe we should not help him unless he seeks help. Maybe Jabber shouldn't have called the cops in the first place when he was really just yelling and screaming and not actually being violent. Maybe Jabber should have done it sooner. Maybe we should have stuck to our guns and kicked him out for it.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

But we didn't do any of those things. It's done. He's back. He gets his new place in June. Will we help him there as we promised? Yes. Will I go to court with him? Probably. Will he go to jail? Possibly.

Is it important that he doesn't hate us? Specifically that he doesn't hate his dad, who he'd blame - I suspect all the blame on me would be "going along with it" - No I suppose it isn't...except to me, who spent a very long day yesterday wondering if I'd lost my family - it was very important.

I picked him up last night and he was pretty well drunk. I expected that since I dropped him off at a bar with live music that he and his friend have been to before. He didn't get drunk last time, but his friend wasn't 21 yet then either. He was, as expected, apologetic. He did seem to recognize his role in it. He's not, unfortunately, over being upset with Jabber about calling the police in the first place. He's terrified of jail - which he should have thought of when he didn't do his community service. Still not sure how much help I can or will be there...He was, unexpectedly, anxious to call his counselor, who he hasn't seen in a couple weeks, and went on about how much he likes her and how much she helped him when he went and that he still does the exercises she gave him for depression.

So there's that.

He and Jabber will be home together again today. So on top of sleeping very little, I get to worry about that all day too.

 

[RN0441]

Lil

My son went to jail for 2 nights at one time for not going to court for something stupid. Can't even remember now. We had them come and arrest him because we didn't want him in our house with a warrant hanging over his head. He didn't have a clue. He was sober and in his room.

Guess what? It wasn't bad. They put him with guys that had DUI's. He wasn't with hardened criminals.

When he came home he said he was GLAD we did it. Now it was over. He didn't have a warrant anymore to worry about. I never thought he'd say that he was glad we did it.

Of course that humbled him for only a short time and then he was back to hell raising unfortunately.

 

[DoneDad]

I don't get it. He has a tantrum, injures your husband, and is still in your house? After you refuse the psychiatric hold the cops suggested and bail him out of jail?

He was in jail because of crimes he committed and consequences he ran away from. It wasn't your fault.

What if next time it gets out of control he presses charges against Jabber? Or seriously injures him? This is not IF there's a next time, but WHEN there's a next time.

I know this is a tough situation. We've had to call the cops on our daughter and boyfriend. But they were endangering our safety and well being by breaking into our house and we weren't going to live like that. Do it yourself measures in situations like these won't cut it. He needs help and won't get it living in your house acting out with you covering up for him (bailing him out, no 5150 psychiatric hold).

I hope this isn't too blunt, but I see good people with good intentions in a terrible situation that could get even worse.

 

[InsaneCdn]

This round was... not as bad as in the past. I get that. And it's a very fine line we walk with our kids. Sometimes, they need harsh reality, and sometimes, they need our help, and sometimes they need outside help - and we often don't know which one they need. We only have our own gut feel to go on.

I don't think Lil and Jabber did anything wrong. There just isn't any "right" answer here at this point in time.

 

[Lil]

Oh I'm not worried about jail - he is. I know it won't be that bad and I hope it won't be long-term. It was such a minor offense, but the not doing community service - that tends to tick judges off. It was only 40 hours which is what makes me so mad! I even worked it out so he could do it at our church (which he was living literally a block from) and with little to no supervision. He decided to go to job corps, and they called him to go a month earlier than expected - so I went back to court and got the judge to agree to let him do it at Job Corps - which they require 40 hours of work anyway, so it wouldn't be anything extra! Then he chickened out and refused to go to job corps. And he didn't do the community service at all! He moved away instead.

He was warned.

He has a tantrum, injures your husband, and is still in your house?

He didn't injure my husband. Jabber has a pre-existing problem with his shoulder - which is why he was home in the first place - and at one point I guess our son shoved past him to got to the phone and Jabber - who has had 25 years of training with inmates in Dpt. of Corrections - just reacted without thinking and grabbed him - using that arm. So to be precise, Jabber was the one who got physical.

 

[Lil]

I should point out, our son has never been violent toward us. He's punched doors. He's tried to goad a fight, no doubt...posturing and puffing...but the closest he's come to physical assault is to try to grab a phone away. Unfortunately, as I said, Jabber has been defending himself 25 years and, though he is the most even-tempered and gentle person you could ever want to know, you simply don't lunge at him, it's a reflex to stop it. Our kid should know this. Our son is 6'1" and 140 lbs. Jabber is 5'11" and about 280 - mostly muscle. He was no danger to his dad.

 

[PonyGirl65]

Let go of your worry today, Lil. Son may sleep it off and hopefully Jabber will too. I'm glad to hear son has never been violent ~ mine never was either.

DoneDad, you offer wise words and yes, a hard line. I respect your opinions and I don't necessarily disagree with you BUT not all of our kids respond to such a hard tack. Mine didn't. Actually, neither of my boys would respond well to blunt force.

Just my two-cents. I had to figure out the best way to approach and deal with the difficulties my sons presented me with. PC24 has textbook ODD and would absolutely turn inside out when faced with hard "old school" tactics. GFG31 is a textbook addict and had ZERO respect or fear of consequences.

We all need to try different things and go different ways. We all respond differently and find what works best for us in the course of time and trial & error.

Lil & Jabber did what they did in the heat of the moment, and then, when things calmed down, they chose to respond in the way they felt was best for their situation. Tough stuff for all involved, and they did the next right thing for themselves. It's what we all need to do.

I'm so grateful for the loving and caring support we have together here!

Peace

 

[New Leaf]

Lil and Jabber, I am so sorry for your troubles with your boy. It is so difficult to navigate all of this, so stressful and gut wrenching.
I pray for peace for your ohana.
(((Hugs)))
Leaf

 

[Lil]

Lil and Jabber, I am so sorry for your troubles with your boy. It is so difficult to navigate all of this, so stressful and gut wrenching.
I pray for peace for your ohana.
(((Hugs)))
Leaf

Good to see you posting Leafy.

 

[pasajes4]

Lil, I want you to know that I truly am sending very gentle hugs to you and Jabber. I also feel for your son. He is so unnervingly identical to my son in just about every way. Your right, Jabber made a choice to call the police based on the behavior he was displaying at that time. Your son's response was to stop his father from calling the authorities in an aggressive manner. Your son went to jail due to his actions in the past. He has made progress and you recognize that he has. He was bailed out. He chose to get drunk. You are at work worrying about Jabber and son being home together. You are worrying whether or not he can make it on his own. When he is on his own, you worry about where he is and you dread the hysterical phone calls asking for help. It sucks to live like this. I am truly so sorry that you are going through this.

 

[BusynMember]

I called the cops on my 15 year old daughter because I caught her smoking pot. I think. Mentally ill or not, your son partly does these things because, in the end, he knows you will take care of him.

It doesn't work. And in my opinion in his temper and drinking he is actually getting worse or at least not improving.


Also this is my opinion only, but I'm strong in it. My adopted kids have alcoholism and drug abuse in their DNA. I have casually but pointedly told them they are at higher risk for addiction all their lives. Over my dead and buried body, and even not then, would I ever encourage them to drink by driving them to a bar. I don't care about age, what they say, anything. No.

I think your son is at high risk for alcoholism and it's not a good sign that he self medicated with it after a hard day of his own making. It's an addictive behavior. Sonic has never drank. He doesn't want to. Jumper hasn't drunk before this year and she MAY drink responsibly now as she has a nice 24 year old boyfriend who will sit and drink one or two beers. He does not drink to get drunk. We don't know if Jumper drinks at all, we have never smelled it on her or seen her drunk. It isn't a necessary right of passage to get drunk. If your situation were mine, I would be no part of it and not allow son drinking in my house. I allow Jumpers boyfriend to drink in the house because he is so self-controlled/mature. in my opinion...it is different.

Sometimes we have to make our kids hate us in order to do what is best for them. It's God awful to hear your kid hating you, and I cried each time I heard it, but it ended up good. Ok, i said it and I hope it's not hurtful and if it is I'm so sorry. I'm done.

I do think everything is harder with an only child.

Praying hard for you and yours. Always hoping for the best.

 

[Lil]

If your situation were mine, I would be no part of it and not allow son drinking in my house.

Oh he's not allowed to do it anymore. That was a stipulation to him coming home. As for out, well, I told him I was dropping him off wherever he wanted - he has friends that live near there. Were they going in? Probably, though it was closed when I dropped him off, so I didn't know one way or the other. I was quite sure he'd have a drink or two somewhere, but whether at a bar or a friends I didn't know. Regardless, I told him I would no longer be taking him anywhere to buy alcohol, if for no other reason than I wouldn't help him spend his money foolishly.

As for him getting drunk last night and it being a bad sign - well duh. Of course it is. Of course he's high risk. Have I not lectured and lectured and lectured about it? Have I not dealt with that issue every freaking day since he was old enough to have an interest in alcohol? Has he not been warned and cautioned and flat out told? But he's going to do what he's going to do and I certainly can't say I've never gone out and blown off steam after an incredibly shitty day.

Of course there's substances involved in all this. He apparently had a little pipe on him when the cops arrested him, but they didn't charge him and called it a "tobacco" pipe, given his being arrested already and how upset and freaked out he was. (I found that out last night from him.)

Do you know how hard it was to even write that? How I'm SURE everyone is just going to say, "See - drugs! Throw him out! He's done it again! You're enabling him! You're doing the wrong thing! This is what you should do!" But I can't do anything right now. I can't even think. I can't even type anymore. I just want to scream and run away myself and NEVER COME BACK HOME!

It is what it is. What's done is done. The fact is, he's probably going to jail. He'll probably lose his job and apartment and be homeless again. His fault? Sure. That doesn't make me any happier about it. And at this point, though I appreciate everyone's support and suggestions and positions, I'm just tired of dealing with this and am starting to feel defensive and I'm just done for now. Maybe Jabber will weigh in, I don't have anything else to say about it for now though.

 

[AppleCori]

Oh no.

I am so sorry that this happened!

Our kids are their own worst enemies, it seems.

I wonder if you could contact the counselor at some point to voice your concerns and see if she would recommend to your son that he see a medical professional (psychiatric) for a further diagnosis and possibly medications to help him get over his rage/anxiety. Maybe coming from her, he would take it better?

I bet he scared himself yesterday, after he realized what he had done/caused and maybe he is more open now to ways to handle his emotions.

Just a thought.

apple

 

[pasajes4]

Hmmmmmm running away. That sounds wonderful. I will join you ( I will post a new thread when I am able to process) let's run to Hawaii and pickup Leafy and anyone else who wants to go on the run with us. We can find a beach with all the amenities. There will be no calories in any of the food or beverages, our troubled children will not be able to contact us, and we look good in swimwear.

 

[AppleCori]

Hey, Pasa, can I be taller there?

 

[Lil]

I'm sorry folks.

I wish I could edit that. I guess he's not the only one who freaks out and regrets it.

 

[AppleCori]

Don't be sorry, Lil.

That's what we are here for!

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, you were fine. Nobody wants to deal with this. When I made my daughter leave, she screamed. "I will hate you forever!" She did not contact me for weeks. I stumbled around and cried and didn't care who saw. Sonic and Jumper said, "mommy, don't cry it'll be ok, mommy." My two babies comforted me and my husband was at a loss.

We get it. It's horrible. We all care about you. Just do what you can handle right now.

I remember feeling like running away. I felt so alone and so disheartened.

 

[pasajes4]

Apple, You can be anything you want to be. I want to have long flowing locks and look good wearing yellow.

 

[so ready to live]

Lil and Jabber=I'm so sorry you've had to go through this all. Yesterday I felt some of you were so loving, supportive of your kids and I was hard-nosed. I thought I should back off from reading because I felt I had responded wrongly to some of you but more importantly to my son. I felt guilty and that I had made mistakes. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. feelings aren't facts. In reality we each have done at any one time what we needed to do to make it in that moment. Our choices are ours alone.

But I can't do anything right now. I can't even think.

I get it. Regardless of how we each choose to hold the line, I know for me , I need the support of others who have been through it. To keep me strong in whatever the response I choose to make. To open my mind to all examples of other's struggles and use the wisdom that works in my family. Take what you like and leave the rest is best advise ever. Prayers.