Lil
Well-Known Member
Which he can still do. I keep reminding myself of that. Doesn't actually make me feel much better.
Little Update
- Thread starter Lil
- Start date
Which he can still do. I keep reminding myself of that. Doesn't actually make me feel much better.
Lil
Well-Known Member
That and get a job were our only rules. He was even told to come and go as he pleased...Just let me know if he was not coming home at all.
Well, and no drugs in the house. Not no drugs - just none in the house.
He managed to follow pretty much none of those rules.
AppleCori
Well-Known Member
Exactly--
they refuse to abide by the most normal and reasonable of rules.
That is why they are where they now find themselves.
Things don't need to be this difficult, this complicated.
They make things so hard on themselves by their attitudes and just can't even see it.
There are such easy solutions to their problems if they would only do things the normal way.
they refuse to abide by the most normal and reasonable of rules.
That is why they are where they now find themselves.
Things don't need to be this difficult, this complicated.
They make things so hard on themselves by their attitudes and just can't even see it.
There are such easy solutions to their problems if they would only do things the normal way.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
When he calls again you could hear him out and see what he is thinking and feeling.
While I like Cedar's idea about the cab to work, it is not clear to me that he wants the job or to stay where he is. Why try to resurrect a job that he will sabotage the next day?
You know that my son tolerates very little dialog with me. I do not know if your son will openly talk.
If I imagine a conversation it would be this:
Mom, I don't like it here. There's nothing to do. The girl ___, ___, and ___. I do not want to be here.
Lil: What are your thoughts?
Son: I don't know Mom. Can I come home?
Lil: No. (I would say this, but it would be a mistake: Because of our circumstances which we have spelled out, that is not an option right now.)
Son: Why Mom?
Lil: The warrant, for one. What is your thinking about that?
Son: Mom, can you help me out with that, can you help me make an arrangement with the Court?
Lil: No. The window for that has closed. Legally, I see your options as ____, ____, or ____.
Son: I can't do any of those Mom.
Lil: Well, what are your options?
Son: I don't know, Mom. Can I come home?
Lil: No. With an active warrant, we are legally obligated to turn you into the police. Is that something you want?
Son: Duh, Mom. Would you?
Lil: Actually, yes. Because it will always be there until you face it.
Son: Well, I don't.
Lil: What options are you thinking about?
Son: I don't know, Mom. If you let me come home...I could go to the court and try to work it out.
Lil: No. That is not possible. The warrant has to be cleaned up first, before anything else can be discussed that involves us.
Son: Can I come home and we can work it out?
Lil: No. What are your options?
(I would not suggest options, except maybe the military, if you think that would work. But, remember, he does have them. See below.)
Remember, he will have a check forthcoming for the work he did do. Unless it is already promised to pay off debts with the people.
If he did have money for a bus ticket, he could go to a neighboring city, stay in a shelter, get free food and look for a job.
The only other option I can see is look for another job in the little town.
Of course, he could want the existing job, and be willing to maintain it if he could get a doctor's clearance. I just see no evidence he wants this. I would feel sad to see you pay good money after bad...for him to blow it. But then, I am the mother who just paid for a train ticket.
The thing is, there are no good options if he sabotages every one of them. The only one who can come up with a solution is him.
Your son must come up with one action, that he will pursue. He is really limited to either making his life worse and worse by trying to avoid the reality he himself created.
Or at any time he can face the music with the warrant. There are no other options. He needs to see this, and make his choice.
If he cannot come up with one option that he will do besides coming home, he and you have to stew more, I think.
It may take a long while and a lot of suffering for him to see that he has to take responsibility. Our job is to stick it out.
I am sorry, Lil (I would say Jabber here, but Jabber seems to do be doing good) this is happening. I wish it were easier for us.
While I like Cedar's idea about the cab to work, it is not clear to me that he wants the job or to stay where he is. Why try to resurrect a job that he will sabotage the next day?
You know that my son tolerates very little dialog with me. I do not know if your son will openly talk.
If I imagine a conversation it would be this:
Mom, I don't like it here. There's nothing to do. The girl ___, ___, and ___. I do not want to be here.
Lil: What are your thoughts?
Son: I don't know Mom. Can I come home?
Lil: No. (I would say this, but it would be a mistake: Because of our circumstances which we have spelled out, that is not an option right now.)
Son: Why Mom?
Lil: The warrant, for one. What is your thinking about that?
Son: Mom, can you help me out with that, can you help me make an arrangement with the Court?
Lil: No. The window for that has closed. Legally, I see your options as ____, ____, or ____.
Son: I can't do any of those Mom.
Lil: Well, what are your options?
Son: I don't know, Mom. Can I come home?
Lil: No. With an active warrant, we are legally obligated to turn you into the police. Is that something you want?
Son: Duh, Mom. Would you?
Lil: Actually, yes. Because it will always be there until you face it.
Son: Well, I don't.
Lil: What options are you thinking about?
Son: I don't know, Mom. If you let me come home...I could go to the court and try to work it out.
Lil: No. That is not possible. The warrant has to be cleaned up first, before anything else can be discussed that involves us.
Son: Can I come home and we can work it out?
Lil: No. What are your options?
(I would not suggest options, except maybe the military, if you think that would work. But, remember, he does have them. See below.)
Remember, he will have a check forthcoming for the work he did do. Unless it is already promised to pay off debts with the people.
If he did have money for a bus ticket, he could go to a neighboring city, stay in a shelter, get free food and look for a job.
The only other option I can see is look for another job in the little town.
Of course, he could want the existing job, and be willing to maintain it if he could get a doctor's clearance. I just see no evidence he wants this. I would feel sad to see you pay good money after bad...for him to blow it. But then, I am the mother who just paid for a train ticket.
The thing is, there are no good options if he sabotages every one of them. The only one who can come up with a solution is him.
Your son must come up with one action, that he will pursue. He is really limited to either making his life worse and worse by trying to avoid the reality he himself created.
Or at any time he can face the music with the warrant. There are no other options. He needs to see this, and make his choice.
If he cannot come up with one option that he will do besides coming home, he and you have to stew more, I think.
It may take a long while and a lot of suffering for him to see that he has to take responsibility. Our job is to stick it out.
I am sorry, Lil (I would say Jabber here, but Jabber seems to do be doing good) this is happening. I wish it were easier for us.
Last edited:
Lil
Well-Known Member
I appreciate it Copa and I agree...I wish this was easier for all of us.
But he's made no noises like he wants to come home. I don't really think your scenario is likely. I don't think he's going to ask to come back here. That's the really odd thing about all this. I don't know why he keeps texting and telling me how his life sucks and everyone there is so stupid, etc. Every time my response has been, "I don't know what to suggest. I'm sorry this has happened."
Right now the plan is to just ignore him as best I can, if he asks for a ride to the ER...well...I'll have to consider it. Like I said, if he actually wants to go to the ER to the point where he'll ask me to come get him, that actually sounds like he wants to keep the job. But I don't really think he'll ask. I think he'll let himself get fired and then expect the girl to support him. Maybe he'll go sign up for food stamps again so he'll have food of his own. But he doesn't want to work. he told his grandmother he doesn't want to work. He told me he wanted to quit after the first night, but he couldn't, because there's no other jobs.
What I think may be going on here is this: if he's fired because "he couldn't get to the doctor" and "it wasn't his fault" he "did all he could but no one would take him", well then how can the girl and her mom blame him? Then he can say, "But I wanted to work! I didn't see YOU finding me a ride! I don't know anyone here! It's not my fault! Once girlfriend gets enough money we can move to town and then I'll be able to walk to work!" He buys himself room and board for a good long while, while she works to support him and get them a place together. Then when they move, he'll have some other excuse.
Yeah...that sounds about right to me.
But he's made no noises like he wants to come home. I don't really think your scenario is likely. I don't think he's going to ask to come back here. That's the really odd thing about all this. I don't know why he keeps texting and telling me how his life sucks and everyone there is so stupid, etc. Every time my response has been, "I don't know what to suggest. I'm sorry this has happened."
Right now the plan is to just ignore him as best I can, if he asks for a ride to the ER...well...I'll have to consider it. Like I said, if he actually wants to go to the ER to the point where he'll ask me to come get him, that actually sounds like he wants to keep the job. But I don't really think he'll ask. I think he'll let himself get fired and then expect the girl to support him. Maybe he'll go sign up for food stamps again so he'll have food of his own. But he doesn't want to work. he told his grandmother he doesn't want to work. He told me he wanted to quit after the first night, but he couldn't, because there's no other jobs.
What I think may be going on here is this: if he's fired because "he couldn't get to the doctor" and "it wasn't his fault" he "did all he could but no one would take him", well then how can the girl and her mom blame him? Then he can say, "But I wanted to work! I didn't see YOU finding me a ride! I don't know anyone here! It's not my fault! Once girlfriend gets enough money we can move to town and then I'll be able to walk to work!" He buys himself room and board for a good long while, while she works to support him and get them a place together. Then when they move, he'll have some other excuse.
Yeah...that sounds about right to me.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Lil, I hope it is not that. Because it sounds so cynical.
We have so much hope for them...so much energy...and want...and this?
Personally, I do not see him going along with the program there. He will get bored. He will not like to be without his own money. He will not want to do what is necessary to maintain a relationship. He will piss off the Mother. He will get pissed off at the Mother. It is a question of when.
So, the only thing to do is to let go. To do the best we can for ourselves, to be happy and content. Until what happens next manifests itself.
I am sorry, Lil.
We have so much hope for them...so much energy...and want...and this?
Personally, I do not see him going along with the program there. He will get bored. He will not like to be without his own money. He will not want to do what is necessary to maintain a relationship. He will piss off the Mother. He will get pissed off at the Mother. It is a question of when.
So, the only thing to do is to let go. To do the best we can for ourselves, to be happy and content. Until what happens next manifests itself.
I am sorry, Lil.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Lil, I hope it is not that. Because it sounds so cynical.
We have so much hope for them...so much energy...and want...and this?
Personally, I do not see him going along with the program there. He will get bored. He will not like to be without his own money. He will not want to do what is necessary to maintain a relationship. He will piss off the Mother. He will get pissed off at the Mother. It is a question of when.
So, the only thing to do is to let go. To do the best we can for ourselves, to be happy and content. Until what happens next manifests itself.
I am sorry, Lil.
We have so much hope for them...so much energy...and want...and this?
Personally, I do not see him going along with the program there. He will get bored. He will not like to be without his own money. He will not want to do what is necessary to maintain a relationship. He will piss off the Mother. He will get pissed off at the Mother. It is a question of when.
So, the only thing to do is to let go. To do the best we can for ourselves, to be happy and content. Until what happens next manifests itself.
I am sorry, Lil.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
Do you think son's self talk is similar to the way he texts to you? Is he sabotaging his self confidence without realizing it, do you think?
Cedar
Cedar
AppleCori
Well-Known Member
If your son simply wants to have someone else support him so he does not have to work, well, there is nothing you can do about that.
Very sad.
I cant understand why he would think that sitting in his girlfriend's mom's trailer all day with the mom and her son, doing nothing, going nowhere, would be at all appealing. Sounds like a fate worse than death, to me.
But then, ours would probably do the same thing.
Last time ours lived here, he tried his best every day to not go out and look for work.
Yet, every day, he would wander around the house and complain about being bored. He couldn't even turn on the TV during the day (because I homeschool my daughter and have to have quiet), yet would fight tooth and nail, come up with all kinds of reasons, why he couldn't go look for work. Or come back as soon as his dad left for work.
Very sad.
I cant understand why he would think that sitting in his girlfriend's mom's trailer all day with the mom and her son, doing nothing, going nowhere, would be at all appealing. Sounds like a fate worse than death, to me.
But then, ours would probably do the same thing.
Last time ours lived here, he tried his best every day to not go out and look for work.
Yet, every day, he would wander around the house and complain about being bored. He couldn't even turn on the TV during the day (because I homeschool my daughter and have to have quiet), yet would fight tooth and nail, come up with all kinds of reasons, why he couldn't go look for work. Or come back as soon as his dad left for work.
Lil
Well-Known Member
It does, doesn't it? But you know, he has flat out told me he didn't want to get a job. Actually, he screamed it at me when I calmly told him to get a job back when he still lived here. He told his grandmother he didn't want to get a job and knew lots of people who didn't work and they get along fine. Really, I think that's what this is. I think he's figured out how to not work, without it being "his fault". He can play the victim and get taken care of at the same time. I don't know if it's actually something he's thought through and made a plan of this.
I agree, it's a question of when it blows up in his face.
I don't know. He does have a pretty low self-esteem. Like I said, I don't know if he's really thought this thru and came up with it...or if it's just...instinctual. Jabber has always felt he was much more...conniving? Scheming? Devious? I tend to not ascribe to evil what can be explained by stupidity.
Mine too. He'd ask for money, ask for smokes, ask for games, etc. He does have my Netflix password and probably HBO password (I don't care). So yeah...he'll complain about how bored he is, but not do anything about it. That sounds familiar.
Lil
Well-Known Member
How do you deal with the sense of impending doom? I haven't heard from him now since August 2nd, two days. I know that I told him I didn't know what to tell him, I was sorry and hoped it worked out...but I expected him to tell me if he'd been fired or got a ride or what. Only two days...you'd think you'd be able to relax more as time goes by...but instead it's getting worse!
So I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Literally, I spend ever second waiting for the phone to ring (even Do Not Disturb doesn't shut it off as it turns out) or to open my phone to see that there's been a text or missed call, since I've turned off the ringer. I've been tense and nervous for two day now. I'm actually trying NOT to think about it, but how do you NOT do that? Anyone got any ideas?
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Now Jumper's boyfriend is 23 and still at home. But he does work hard at a full time job, help at home, and the entire family gets along great. (It's sickening...lol) But he pays rent. And he's on the way out
I have a suggestion in another direction, one that may put the pieces of your puzzling young man together. I do think he is basically a good kid, but he is different. I can't get it out of my head that he sounds as if he has Aspergers.
So what you ask?
Lil, I have neurological differences and so does my son Sonic. Because of that, I was terrified with every job I had (and I got fired from many because I am a different type learner and in spite of a normal IQ and great vergal skills, I need to learn my job slowly. It's SCARY. Sonic never had to worry about not catching on fast enough because he had a job coach with him at his job from Day One and no longer needs one.
What if your son is afraid to work? Afraid he won't "get it" because of a neurological difference? What if you could talk him into a neuropsychologist evluation that could lead to services from the Dept. of Rehab Development who will find him a job that is compatible with his abilities and talents and offer him a job coach while he is learning the job so that it is not so scary to try.. He has so many symmptoms of a smart child with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). His unwillingness to work may instead be his fear.
Lil, there are things I can do and can't do due to neurological glitches. I can't work at McDonalds. You read that right. Too much multi-tasking, noise, and sensory stuff going on. It is not a match for me. I need a quiet atmosphere without a lot of multi-tasking and for the first time ever I get a job coach. At MY age!!! I wish they had offered these services when I was younger, but they didn't know. They know now.
Something is off about your son. Not necessarily in a bad way, but he is NOT a big drug users like many diffacult kids. He is NOT socially adept...he does not make friends easily or read people well. He is not a dummy, yet he is resistant to working. In his case, I really believe there may be a reason more than just willful defiance. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) adults and kids also lose their tempers and get frustrated more easily a nd are emotionally delayed in development. They become adults a lot later than typically neurological people do.
Just some thoughts. I would so like to see your young man feel good about himself.
But he pays rent. And he's on the way outI have a suggestion in another direction, one that may put the pieces of your puzzling young man together. I do think he is basically a good kid, but he is different. I can't get it out of my head that he sounds as if he has Aspergers.
So what you ask?
Lil, I have neurological differences and so does my son Sonic. Because of that, I was terrified with every job I had (and I got fired from many because I am a different type learner and in spite of a normal IQ and great vergal skills, I need to learn my job slowly. It's SCARY. Sonic never had to worry about not catching on fast enough because he had a job coach with him at his job from Day One and no longer needs one.
What if your son is afraid to work? Afraid he won't "get it" because of a neurological difference? What if you could talk him into a neuropsychologist evluation that could lead to services from the Dept. of Rehab Development who will find him a job that is compatible with his abilities and talents and offer him a job coach while he is learning the job so that it is not so scary to try.. He has so many symmptoms of a smart child with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). His unwillingness to work may instead be his fear.
Lil, there are things I can do and can't do due to neurological glitches. I can't work at McDonalds. You read that right. Too much multi-tasking, noise, and sensory stuff going on. It is not a match for me. I need a quiet atmosphere without a lot of multi-tasking and for the first time ever I get a job coach. At MY age!!! I wish they had offered these services when I was younger, but they didn't know. They know now.
Something is off about your son. Not necessarily in a bad way, but he is NOT a big drug users like many diffacult kids. He is NOT socially adept...he does not make friends easily or read people well. He is not a dummy, yet he is resistant to working. In his case, I really believe there may be a reason more than just willful defiance. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) adults and kids also lose their tempers and get frustrated more easily a nd are emotionally delayed in development. They become adults a lot later than typically neurological people do.
Just some thoughts. I would so like to see your young man feel good about himself.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Lil, by reading the posts of people who have dealt with this, I think the key is accepting that we are separate people from our adult children.
Remember what COM posts, that she imagined her D C walking away from her, hand in hand with his Higher Power, as they spoke deeply together.
The thing for me is, Lil, to accept that my son is living his own life. Not my ideas of the life he should live. Not my life. He has as much said it. I am not you. I will not and cannot live your life.
As far as impending doom, I am wondering where that comes from. What does COM call it? Awfulizing? I call it catastrophizing.
If your son gets kicked out of the trailer, he will find another place to live. He has done it before. He will do it again.
The place to look to moderate that feeling is you. Not him.
Cedar, I think, read or speculated that there may be a biological imperative for a mother to stay connected with her child until they stand a good chance of surviving apart from her. If this is the case, no wonder we are in agony.
If our distress is biological we are dealing with something that is seriously bigger than our ability to control it.
Our wills and personal power, no matter how substantial are not sufficient to counter biology.
I think some sort of surrender, is in order. Some sort of acceptance and understanding of life that is way deeper and more profound than the personal. Than personal will and power.
I am struggling with that too. I am not religious. At least not yet. But I posted someplace that it is like the knowing of those Australian scientists that the wreckage from the crashed Malaysian Airliner would show up exactly where it did. They knew because of the currents of the ocean. There are forces at work that we cannot even grasp, not even remotely.
We can imagine, we can believe that these forces, these currents carry our young men where they need to go.
Lil, you are practical. You are strong. I imagine all this is not going over so good, with you, my dear reader.
I am your friend. Remember that. I want you to feel better. And me too. Suspend judgment for a few minutes. Rest. Let someone else carry this burden for you. Put it for just a little while in the hands of the divine. The currents of life. It is not your fault, Lil.
We cannot see or imagine currents of an ocean that are so powerful and orderly and purposeful as those that acted upon the wreckage. But we can hope that such carry our boys.
Is it so impossible for me to trust that the right thing will happen? Am I so broken that I cannot believe that my son can be OK? I do not know.
I need to see my son differently than I do now. Not as a whining, self-indulgent baby but as a man, afraid but setting sail. And to honor him. And to respect his courage. His guts. To not indulge his fear and self-doubt.
Somebody posted that there are certain bird parents, who when their babies are resistant to leaving the nest, begin to destroy it around their difficult child babies, so that they are forced to fly and emancipate.
I think these bird parents must have seen and acknowledged some objective change or marker in their offspring, and honored it.
We can do the same. I think in my son, his hostility towards me is one such marker. He does not even want to hear my voice.
Why? It could be that I am hateful and obnoxious. I prefer however to believe he understands on a deep level that there is nothing any longer I can do for him, or should do. That he needs to be apart from me.
Part of my problem, like you, is dealing with the fact that my son may be miserable. I find this hard to accept. But less and less I feel responsible or even able to fix it.
But the thing is, Lil, I think our sons are surviving. My son, himself, got on SSI. There have been no crimes that I am aware of. He seems to be learning some. He has not lived on the street for 5 months.
Your son always seems to land on his feet. There is always a next step. He may not be thriving but he is surviving.
We have a choice here. To see the cup half empty or full.
That is all I know today.
Last edited:
Lil
Well-Known Member
It's a thought...but he'll have to be open to even talking to us about it. All in all, I'm not sure. He gets SO defensive about even counseling, "You think there's something WRONG with me...That I'm broken." I don't know why he's like that. We've never given him reason to think that people who need assistance are "wrong".
But yes. More and more I think he's an aspie. That doesn't mean I'll be able to get him any help.
I really may have to. Jabber's got arthritis so his back-rubs are short-lived.
But he tries!
Lil
Well-Known Member
Copa, Thanks. I believe it might be the Parade of Terribles...at least, someone calls it that. But truthfully...I'm actually not worried that some terrible thing will happen - well I am - but I always worry about that. I'm actually just dreading the inevitable phone call/text/email where he pours it all out on me how awful his life is. So...it's actually just waiting to hear from him...as opposed to thinking his life will have taken a sudden horrible turn.
I love this. I once told him he was going to grow up if I had to SHOVE him out of the nest and let him fall.
Thanks ladies ... sometimes I just need to vent. Wonder where he gets it?
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
Pull out your toolbox, Lil. Just the act of reaching for it takes us out of that powerless place. The only other thing I know is to slow time. Crawl through it, keep yourself steady state through it, one second at a time. It's like walking a really high tightrope.
Balance, balance, balance, fall. Get up. Balance, balance, balance, fall.
Get up.
Hold yourself with compassion. Stay steady state. That's all we're looking for, here.
This is very hard stuff.
He knows what he is doing to you, Lil.
What he doesn't know is that we are right here with you.
But you do.
Cedar
The defensiveness? Is classical Aspie in my experience.
We found that even without a diagnosis and supports, just knowing what WE were working with meant we could change our approach and it helped. Little things - like yes/no commitments not "maybe", detailed requests, all sorts of things that used to cause "war".
