Mother’s Day?

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Hoku is talking about the possibility of taking baby.
Hi New Leaf

You sound better today. I can really see how you would feel ambivalent about this new development. Concern for Hoku, the responsibility and the dynamics that could be unleashed with Tornado; and at the same time, relief.

The one thing I urge you to tell Hoku is that her rights and the rights of the baby are legally protected. I would go to a family lawyer if it was me. I recognize that Tornado has parental rights, and there is family reunification, but I believe that Tornado can CHOOSE to relinquish her parental rights, legally, without recourse to getting him back, or only in limited, highly defined circumstances, for example, an extended period of time clean of drugs, self-supporting, stable, etc.

But the thing is, Hoku will be the only mother this baby would have known. To yank him sometime in the hypothetical future would be very emotionally damaging to the baby, Hoku, and her family. To my way of thinking, the only way I would consider it is if Tornado relinquishes parental rights and possibly, even rights to visitation. I take such a strong stand because Tornado has not been shown to consider the emotional wellbeing of anybody. Again, I am not blaming her. It just seems to be a fact, that must be considered.

The welfare and stability of this baby have to be paramount. And the emotional safety of Hoku and her family.

The Child Protective Services people will not be thinking of either Hoku or the baby, first and foremost. They will be thinking about their convenience. Where to put the baby to preserve their options. I am sorry to be so cynical. But they are not thinking of Hoku. She is a means to the end.

Maybe I am wrong. I hope I am wrong.

I would love it if the baby went to Hoku. It would be so wonderful for the baby and for Tornado's other children, and for you. But only if everybody is protected and secure. Legally protected.

Love, Copa
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
New Leaf he is five and very delayed. Can't understand his speech but getting lots of help and Amy got him vaccinated. Kay did not believe in vaccines.

Jaden is difficult but making good progress in a structured home and special school. I don't know what we would have done if Amy had not been willing and even eager to raise him. We got lucky that way.


Wishing you the best....sending prayers.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi Copa,
I am a little better. Thank you. Still no word from Tornado, however I do not expect to hear from her.
Concern for Hoku, the responsibility and the dynamics that could be unleashed with Tornado; and at the same time, relief.
I feel all of these things and a whole lot more. But it is true that it would be a relief to know that my grandson is with family. The possibility to see him, for his siblings to be able to visit with him and connect. In Hawaiian culture connection is paramount. That’s why all of this has been so devastating.
Hoku will be the only mother this baby would have known. To yank him sometime in the hypothetical future would be very emotionally damaging to the baby, Hoku, and her family. To my way of thinking, the only way I would consider it is if Tornado relinquishes parental rights and possibly, even rights to visitation. I take such a strong stand because Tornado has not been shown to consider the emotional wellbeing of anybody. Again, I am not blaming her. It just seems to be a fact, that must be considered.
It is a fact that Tornado does not consider others feelings. This is what Hoku fears with the reunification process. Tornado could legally relinquish her rights, but now that CWS has custody of the baby, the goal will be to reunify. It will take about a year. But, if Tornado fails to engage, then her rights will be terminated.
The Child Protective Services people will not be thinking of either Hoku or the baby, first and foremost. They will be thinking about their convenience. Where to put the baby to preserve their options. I am sorry to be so cynical. But they are not thinking of Hoku. She is a means to the end.
This is true. I have read articles about the goal to keep children with their parents, even if there is drug use. I think that’s why they stopped calling people foster parents, now they are “resource caregivers”.
I would love it if the baby went to Hoku. It would be so wonderful for the baby and for Tornado's other children, and for you. But only if everybody is protected and secure. Legally protected.
I would love it too, truthfully. There is one part of me (and it is horrible to admit) that is fearful. We don’t know what and how much drug use was happening while Tornado was pregnant. How is this baby affected, what does that mean years down the road for his mental health? I told Hoku that she has to think of these things for it will definitely affect her family.
When my three grands and I were going through the CWS process in the beginning, they sent out letters to family members aunties, uncles, cousins, second cousins, even my mother received a letter, concerning their situation and seeking information about possible involvement. I texted my sister in law and niece and let them know the situation. My niece has a friend who is looking to adopt. She and her husband have gone through all of the training. We spoke the other day and she is very interested in caring
for my grandson. This way, we would at least be able to see him as she is open to our involvement.
Sigh.
It would be ideal for baby to be raised by Hoku. There will be challenges. She and her husband have a lot of discussion ahead. He is agreeable. I think she should also have a chat with her little one who is just four and very intelligent. She has wished for a sister or brother.
Time and reading and writing here is helping to soothe the ache.
The court case is Friday, I think it legalizes removal of baby and CWS custody.
I have to stop thinking of how traumatized this baby must be, but I can’t help it. I am grateful that there is a family caring for him, but not knowing and not seeing him is hard.
I will keep praying for help.
Love to you
Leaf
 

MissLulu

Well-Known Member
New Leaf, I just want you to know I'm still here thinking of you and your family and praying for a good outcome for all. I'm pleased to see that there are at least some possible options for your grandson. I think you are right to warn Hoku of all the possible dangers ahead, but if she is willing then this might turn out to be a wonderful solution.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
There is one part of me (and it is horrible to admit) that is fearful. We don’t know what and how much drug use was happening while Tornado was pregnant. How is this baby affected, what does that mean years down the road for his mental health?
Well, New Leaf. You've been here on this site almost as long as I have, how long has it been--6 years? Many of us here adopted babies exposed to drugs and alcohol, including me. You've got the panoramic picture of what could be.

In a heartbeat, I would do it again. The last 10 years have been the hardest, as I would guess the years after your own daughters, grew up, have been the same for you. There are never ever any guarantees, regardless of the circumstances of birth. You know this from your own experience. I say this with love.
She and her husband have gone through all of the training. We spoke the other day and she is very interested in caring
for my grandson. This way, we would at least be able to see him as she is open to our involvement.
Sigh.
You are writing here about a friend of a niece. This raises red flags for me. What do you really know about these people? What control would the family have? None. I would find this heart-wrenching. To know where the baby is. Without the guarantee of connection. So close and yet so far. People say anything to get through the door. And then it is the natural thing to want to have control and to have the baby be "my own--not theirs" thereby freezing out the birth family. It's normal.
I have to stop thinking of how traumatized this baby
I hope you stop traumatizing yourself with this. The baby is so very tiny. I am not saying the baby is without awareness. But babies are separated routinely from mothers in the hospital. I myself was hospitalized my first 3 months and in an incubator. I did not have contact at all with my mother, who watched me through a glass window, as I was within a machine. And then I was hospitalized again within my first year. I am not saying this is optimal. It's just that life happens. What I am trying to say is that babies and children are resilient. It is only when they are worn down, worn out, exposed to repeated loss, frustration, hopelessness, uncaring. This is what everybody is gathering around to try to prevent. The baby is fine. I believe that.

Love Copa

PS I am mad at Tornado. I can imagine how you feel.
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi all,
Oh Busy I am so glad Amy has Jaden

New Leaf he is five and very delayed. Can't understand his speech but getting lots of help and Amy got him vaccinated. Kay did not believe in vaccines.

Jaden is difficult but making good progress in a structured home and special school. I don't know what we would have done if Amy had not been willing and even eager to raise him. We got lucky that way.

New Leaf, I just want you to know I'm still here thinking of you and your family and praying for a good outcome for all. I'm pleased to see that there are at least some possible options for your grandson. I think you are right to warn Hoku of all the possible dangers ahead, but if she is willing then this might turn out to be a wonderful solution.
Thank you Lulu.
You've been here on this site almost as long as I have, how long has it been--6 years? Many of us here adopted babies exposed to drugs and alcohol, including me. You've got the panoramic picture of what could be.
Yup it’s been 6 years. I do have the picture
There are never ever any guarantees, regardless of the circumstances of birth. You know this from your own experience. I say this with love.
This is true, I said the same to Hoku.
What do you really know about these people? What control would the family have? None. I would find this heart-wrenching. To know where the baby is. Without the guarantee of connection. So close and yet so far. People say anything to get through the door. And then it is the natural thing to want to have control and to have the baby be "my own--not theirs" thereby freezing out the birth family. It's normal.
I know nothing, but it seemed a better option than complete strangers. I would of course rather baby stay with family.
I hope you stop traumatizing yourself with this. The baby is so very tiny. I am not saying the baby is without awareness. But babies are separated routinely from mothers in the hospital.
This is true as well. I am intensifying my worries by reading up on infant trauma and it’s effects on their bodies and future health issues. I won’t be doing that anymore. I just have to have faith that he will be okay.
What I am trying to say is that babies and children are resilient. It is only when they are worn down, worn out, exposed to repeated loss, frustration, hopelessness, uncaring. This is what everybody is gathering around to try to prevent. The baby is fine. I believe that.
In my heart of hearts I believe this as well.
PS I am mad at Tornado. I can imagine how you feel.
I am mad amongst other things Yes mad. How could she do this, not only to the baby but her three older kids and all of us. Then, I am worried because this is a dangerous time for her. A lot of addicts OD in a relapse. I will have to continue to quell all of these thoughts with prayer, for I have no control over any of it.
Thank you dear friends
Love
Leaf
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I don’t know. I hope not. According to the social worker she tested clean before being released from rehab. It’s been four days. The SW has been texting and calling the phone number she provided, but there has been no response. I can’t fathom being away from your infant that long (she was nursing) without attempting to find out how he is, or trying to find ways to work on services to get him back. This is the hardest road. I know you know the feeling Copa. No matter how angry I may be about Tornados irresponsible choices, she is still my child. Adult child yes. I pray she is okay.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
This is the hardest road. I know you know the feeling Copa. No matter how angry I may be about Tornados irresponsible choices, she is still my child. Adult child yes. I pray she is oka
This is like Dante's levels of Hell. There are just so many levels of suffering. It's hard which thing to attend to first. Even for me, who is not even involved. I guess I was trying to feel mad at Tornado in order to focus. On some level she must feel terrible.. I can imagine what your fear is, New Leaf. I wish I lived near you but there is an ocean in the way. I pray she is okay. I believe with all my heart that she is okay.

I imagine that Tornado has an extensive social network. That she is known.

I know while you are incredibly strong you can't sustain this without real cost. Nobody could. New Leaf you have to find a way right now to protect yourself, to nurture yourself. I DO think I know in a part of me how this must be. I can imagine it. I have lived through things like it. And I do know what my version of this feels like. The closest I came was when my Mom was ill and my son was careening. When you can't handle multiple emergencies, each unbearable in its own way something happens to us inside that is just wordless. It's a kind of near-death experience. And for us, this has gone on so long at a slow boil--and now this.

I believe Tornado is OK. I believe the baby is OK. More than OK. It's you right now I am concerned about. I know you have many things in your life that can center and sustain you. The chickens. The water. For starters. Your garden and property. More than anything the children, and your grandchildren. I didn't realize you were still working. I thought you'd retired. But anyway. Now, like never before, you need to turn to that which can restore you.

Maybe limit your time here. I am concerned, but I can also see that coming here to this site itself can be destabilizing. It's not normal here.
 
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Kalahou

Well-Known Member
Dearest New Leaf,
Just letting you know that I've been following along, and holding you (with all your o'hana) close in heart and prayers.
I have no new words to add ... this is very hard ... but want to join in sending mana'o and aloha.

I am on this site most days (to maintain survival) but have had no energy to bring myself to post for a long time. My son (41 now) was part of the Covid inmate releases last summer, and I've been holding breath since then - a slow process - as further sentencing is yet to come. I distract myself with teleworking at home, and laying low - and breathe.

I admire you so, dear Tita, I've missed you, and remember you so often. You are very strong and steadfast. I am sorry for the heartache and burdens you are suffering at this moment. Know the sun will shine again. Ka la hou.

Please malama pono. Love and Bless. K.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
This is like Dante's levels of Hell. There are just so many levels of suffering. It's hard which thing to attend to first. Even for me, who is not even involved. I guess I was trying to feel mad at Tornado in order to focus. On some level she must feel terrible.. I can imagine what your fear is, New Leaf. I wish I lived near you but there is an ocean in the way. I pray she is okay. I believe with all my heart that she is okay.
It is like levels of hell. Grieving all over again. I went back to my first post to figure out how many years I have been here. 2015 is when I posted after Tornados last horrendous exodus that affirmed my realization that I, nay we, (because hubs was still here) could no longer maintain the “revolving” door. That was so hard letting go of my three grands. The desperation and chaos. We had been dealing with the downward slide for years before that. Trying to get authorities involved, trying to make sure my grands were safe. I have to hold on to that to strengthen my logical voice in my head that the decision to rehouse my daughter is the correct one. But then the emotional voice starts intruding, and the “what if’s” roll through my mind. But, the fact is there were so many signs pointing towards this latest development. Tornado had the opportunity to go to rehab when she was Covid released from jail in the fall. She fell off the radar again. On the streets and pregnant, still using. Not even the movement in her belly drove her to the right choice. Chance #1 rejected. Chance #2 One week before baby’s birth, the rehab under Covid restrictions with limited space for clients, was able to take her in, it was that or go directly to jail and baby would be removed at birth. Chance #3, mom and baby tested clean in the hospital, but two weeks after birth, lab results for baby showed positive,. The social worker gave Tornado benefit of the doubt and waived removal procedures as long as she remained in rehab and continued to make progress. When baby was just two months old she was trying to arrange for baby to come and “stay with us for the weekend” . “Uh no, you are breastfeeding how on earth would that even be doable???” Red flag. Her inability to show remorse to me or her children for the terrible choices she made and what harm it caused us. Red flag. Her pokes and jabs at me, blaming her choices on mistakes I had made raising her. Red flag. Her choosing to phone her boyfriend who is still using, rather than call her kids. Red flag. When she was allowed her first day pass, she arranged to have a beach day with us, it was around hubs date of passing, and a time we have gathered at the beach these five years, to celebrate his life. She called late the night prior saying that she had invited Rain “Can we pick her up? Please Mom?” I asked her if that was on the detailed day plan she had to submit to rehab.
“Yes mom.” So reluctantly we went to the park and ended up waiting for her to find her sister. As we sat in the truck, a guy showed up on his bike. Surprise, it was the baby’s father. Rain finally appeared and said she was not coming to the beach with us. Hmmmmm. Red flag. I called the rehab afterwards because it felt like a manipulative move, that this interaction was Tornados doing, not in the true plan. She had us all sitting there waiting for a hour while this transpired. The rehab never got back to me.
Sigh.
I’m just too gullible. But not gullible enough to house my daughter. Then my mind slides the other way wondering, wondering if I had allowed her into our home, would she have come round to the light? Wondering if she took the chance with this “altercation” she had, thinking that I would acquiesce on baby’s behalf and once again open my door. Was that in the back of her mind? Or was this an impulsive moment where she endangered her child to confront who knows who about what, and that was foremost on her mind?
Oh the places I go, ruminating on the whys and wherefores. The what if’s.
It is a process that I go through in this pain state. I am sifting through the memories and facts and trying to quell that lump in my throat, and be able to function at the same time. I will be okay, Copa, I have to be okay, for myself, my granddaughter and everyone else. I have to work through all of this and give it to God at the same time. I spoke yesterday with the SW, I expressed again my torment. She said “I think you made the right decision.”
I think I did too, but there is a difference between thinking and knowing. It will take time to swallow all of this and move back from the edge of the “swirly whirly”.
I imagine that Tornado has an extensive social network. That she is known.
That she does, or seemingly so. Awhile back I saw Rain during one of Tornados stints in jail. “Mom, don’t bail her out. She has gone through all of her friends and crossed everyone’s path, including mine.” So, this social network she chooses, I don’t know Copa. She has in the recent past posted remarks of her affiliation with a gang here. The “Bloods”. One of her comments “l need clothes, but don’t buy me anything blue.” It seems ridiculous, my fear of her gang involvement at her age, but she has also posted while in rehab a selfie, with the comment “ #whatupbloods”. Hoku noticed that and was alarmed. We have had incidences here with these gang members attacking innocent citizens for “wearing the wrong color”. Son remarked to me that in his college circle, students are mindful of these rogue incidences and cautious about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. All of this is on my mind as well.
I will not endanger my home with the possibility of street people and gang members appearing. I hope that Tornado will keep her distance if that affiliation is still her choice.
I know while you are incredibly strong you can't sustain this without real cost. Nobody could. New Leaf you have to find a way right now to protect yourself, to nurture yourself. I DO think I know in a part of me how this must be. I can imagine it. I have lived through things like it. And I do know what my version of this feels like. The closest I came was when my Mom was ill and my son was careening. When you can't handle multiple emergencies, each unbearable in its own way something happens to us inside that is just wordless. It's a kind of near-death experience. And for us, this has gone on so long at a slow boil--and now this.
It is wordless what happens inside of us. My body shows it in aches and pains. Thank you Copa for acknowledging this. I have reached out to Naranon who has zoom meetings Friday evenings. I may or may not join in, depending on how I feel.
I believe Tornado is OK. I believe the baby is OK. More than OK. It's you right now I am concerned about. I know you have many things in your life that can center and sustain you. The chickens. The water. For starters. Your garden and property. More than anything the children, and your grandchildren. I didn't realize you were still working. I thought you'd retired. But anyway. Now, like never before, you need to turn to that which can restore you.
Oh I so need to get back to my walking. My ill health has prevented it, as well as the rise in crime lately, especially at the wee hours in the morning, which is my favorite time to walk and pray. I will be okay, Copa. I have to be okay. I have to be strong not only for myself, for my family. Especially for my granddaughter, who at 13 has been through so much and survived. That’s where my focus has to be, and with Son who is in the midst of finals. He needs to finish college. He is midway. Living at home but may be dorming next year.
I have just two more weeks before I retire. That is a whole different concern. I am excited, but also a little worried about finances. Social security has not gotten back to me about my application. A friend who’s husband retired told me it is a long process. I will be okay for the time being. It was my ordeal with Covid long haul issues that pushed me towards this decision. Through spring and summer last year I had the strangest symptoms, at one point felt like I was dying. Then the trepidation of being back at work, exposing myself as a health aide, while in a pandemic. That, added with the fact that hubs passed at my age set into motion early retirement. I will be 62. One of the questions retirement planners pose is “How long to you think you will live”? Who knows? With my stress level and issues with arthritis, the clock ticks a bit faster. I want to do things on my terms while I still have the capability.
I am looking forward to it, but a little worried about finances. Could I have held on and worked a little longer? Actually no. I am tired. Slowly recovering from the issues I faced, but tired. Tired of putting on the “function wear” to get through the day while all of this boils underneath. Not that I plan to break down entirely and not function, but I will be able to spend more time in my gardens, in the ocean, time to breathe.
Maybe limit your time here. I am concerned, but I can also see that coming here to this site itself can be destabilizing. It's not normal here.
I will measure my time here. You are right it is not normal here, but it is our normal. I do not have the wherewithal to reply to other members posts, I apologize for that, but I do not have the sap to take that on. The hard part of walking this journey is being amongst the “normal” people. I sometimes feel a pariah, because I have shared some of my issues with certain folks at work. Lest I crack and they have no idea? To vent? To release, like a pressure cooker? Then there is the office chatter of normal family lives, celebrating children’s achievements and benchmarks. A coworker recently became a grandmother and as I congratulate her, I swallow all of......this. It is this weird existence of the in between. Trying to trudge on in normalcy, while dealing with the bizarre.
I wrote much this whilst sitting at the dentist office, waiting for my granddaughter to finish up capping a cracked molar. Her dentist is in the same office building as hubs former cardiologist. Walking toward the building, I flashed back (as I often do entering this very spot) to his last visit. He was so ill at the time, released from the hospital and in incredible pain, unable to walk very far. He was leaning on a post, unable to walk the few feet to where I had parked the car. We were both suffering through his last days, unbeknownst at the time, and I was desperate for the doctors to do something more. It seemed they were lackadaisical about his condition. That is a chapter I try to replace with the good memories in order to climb over the grief. Through these five years since he died, I have processed over and again the ordeal. Working steadily at painting over those desperate days with fond memories. Yet, each time I pass that post, I see him standing there, leaning over, struggling to catch his breath.
I have had to carry on in spite of the other layers of pain dealing with two addicted wayward adult children, then the whole mess with trying to help my grands.
I have been here off and on, five years. Those still here, you Copa, Kalahou, Recovering and many others have helped me sort through these layers all through these years and I am beyond grateful. To have a place to go and share this grief with people who understand is an oasis from the burden of feigning normalcy, while thoughts roam the halls in my mind, sifting through the pain and yet, making it through another day. Living in the void of grief, walking amongst people who while they have challenges no doubt, cannot fathom living with the reality of having loved ones with mental illness, drug addiction. You all know the pain of it, and I wish with all of my heart that you didn’t, but here we all are, comforting one another in a club that no one would want to be a member of. Yes it is not normal here, but there is a camaraderie in that.
I have written yet another “book” in this long response, it is my tortured mind, unable to hold the putridness of yet another situation. Like so much toxin in food poisoning, it has to come out somehow, and so my fingers release it with the keyboard, so much word vomit. Venting.
I will be okay because I know I have to. But, also because I can be here in the not normal world we have existed in. I want to more than “exist” for whatever time I have left on this earth. In spite of all that has gone on and will go on, there is still beauty. Being here has helped me to carry on and try my best to thrive. I owe that to all of you. I will be careful to acknowledge the destabilizing parts, but for now, you will never know the comfort you give in your kindness and wisdom. For that I thank you with all of my heart.
Just letting you know that I've been following along, and holding you (with all your o'hana) close in heart and prayers.
I have no new words to add ... this is very hard ... but want to join in sending mana'o and aloha.
Aloha Kalahou. I am thankful that you came and followed along. It is a blessing that we are here, but also a curse in some ways. I am sorry for the pain of it.
I am on this site most days (to maintain survival) but have had no energy to bring myself to post for a long time. My son (41 now) was part of the Covid inmate releases last summer, and I've been holding breath since then - a slow process - as further sentencing is yet to come. I distract myself with teleworking at home, and laying low - and breathe.
I was absent from this site for awhile too, trying to collect myself. I understand the need for a break.
Oh dear, Tornado was released last fall due to Covid as well. She chose the streets yet again. Off radar until entering rehab in January. Does your son contact you? For me, contact is a relief and a burden. A relief to know my adult child is alive, fearful of what may be. What a thing to write, but it is true. My hackles have been raised since engaging Tornado at rehab, a blinking danger sign in the corner of my brain, warning me to guard myself, to be prepared for an impending storm. Hopeful, yet leery. It’s like a mental disaster kit, prepping for the probability. Unfortunately that little voice in my mind turned out to be correct.
I understand the need to distract oneself from the reality of living in this bizarre realm. I hope and pray for peace for all of us.
I admire you so, dear Tita, I've missed you, and remember you so often. You are very strong and steadfast. I am sorry for the heartache and burdens you are suffering at this moment. Know the sun will shine again. Ka la hou.
I see the sunshine in my granddaughters smile. She has been so brave. I am thankful to have seen a glimpse of Tornado in her caring for her baby. That’s what made it so difficult to say no, I will not house her this time. No. The circumstances, past history, my well daughters urging and logic won. My heart keeps sifting through the what if’s of giving her another chance, but logic takes over that it would present safety issues for my home and my heart.
Please malama pono. Love and Bless. K.
Mahalo nui Kalahou. I know how hard it is to post when you are in a certain space in your mind, on this journey. I thank you for your love in reading along and sharing your thoughts. Love and bless you as well, and do what’s best for you. Malama pono and Imua.
Leafy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Hi New Leaf. I read your post and I will get back to you tomorrow. Please rest, have a good night, and feel better. Love, Copa
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I have been here. 2015 is when I posted after Tornados last horrendous exodus that affirmed my realization that I, nay we, (because hubs was still here) could no longer maintain the “revolving” door.
Good Morning, New Leaf. I do believe that there are stages and levels to this. Six years ago (each of us) reached a point of no return, and we came here. I have no doubt that for you, you've reached a new level. And after a period of upheaval and disorientation, you will begin to find coherence, and a new understanding and strength, based upon the challenges of right now.

Well. Here you've written the story of all of our lives (kind of like our weird variation of Haiku.)
Chance #1 rejected

Chance #2

Chance #3




This is not true:
I’m just too gullible
You have just the right degree of openness to allow change to enter when it's time. It's not time.
Wondering if she took the chance with this “altercation” she had, thinking that I would acquiesce on baby’s behalf and once again open my door. Was that in the back of her mind? Or was this an impulsive moment where she endangered her child to confront who knows who about what, and that was foremost on her mind?
I doubt it is the former. I think it's the latter. She lives impulsively in the moment, seizing opportunities that present themselves, without forethought or anticipation of consequences. In the same way, she deals with momentary agony that threatens to surge into consciousness, by dulling it with substances. New Leaf. Until she has treatment, long-term (again), she will continue to live this way. No mortal who lives conventionally can handle this. Not you. Not me. For sure.
Oh the places I go, ruminating on the whys and wherefores. The what if’s.
We have to center ourselves, in us, not them. I think mantras may help. A friend of a friend has a child similar to ours (different but somehow the same) and surprise, nothing worked. Until she decided she would write pages and pages of mantras. And guess what? She got better and so did her adult child who now well over 40 has a meaningful career providing exercise programs in nursing homes. He's great at it and loves it. He has his own apartment and is stable.
,
In my own case, I am still involved with my son. But hard drugs are not his main problem and even if he was sober and recovering he would still need help. Which is how I justify my continued involvement although there are people who would view this as problematic, enabling, and a sign of my weakness. Sigh. We're all so different with different circumstances, although weirdly similar. But self-torture helps NOTHING. If you find yourself perseverating about what-ifs, maybe you can do MANTRAS and know other mothers are with you doing the same.
She has in the recent past posted remarks of her affiliation with a gang here. The “Bloods”
How can this be overlooked or minimized? I had not realized this before the past few days.
“How long to you think you will live”? Who knows? With my stress level and issues with arthritis, the clock ticks a bit faster. I want to do things on my terms while I still have the capability.
For me, you've always exuded health. Maybe it's all the canoes. Personally, I feel with time and respite you'll find yourself and your health. But that means that right now we've all got to do healthy things for mind, body, and spirit.
Like so much toxin in food poisoning, it has to come out somehow, and so my fingers release it with the keyboard, so much word vomit. Venting.
I see it as sharing, opening to suppo rt, telling the truth. Integrating and moving beyond the torment.
I want to more than “exist” for whatever time I have left on this earth. In spite of all that has gone on and will go on
You will. This is part of it. We can't deny what's happening or bury it. You can't. I can't. I am glad you came back, New Leaf.

Love, Copa

PS I don't think that people at work or in casual circumstances necessarily tell the truth of their lives. Or if they do it can be a very shallow and self-serving version. For some weird reason I am thinking of my mother here, who almost never helped me in my life, and usually thwarted me. And when I became very successful would brag and even once asked me, to give her some credit. I loved my mother very much and I love her still. But my mother could not accept the truth about herself or her life. I think that is a very common circumstance.

I think by our sufferings with our children, we can achieve a form of grace in our life. A kind of acceptance and self-acceptance. A kind of honesty about who we are and what our lives have been. Kind of like a peculiar therapy. We shouldn't measure ourselves against other people (although we do.) I wish we would find compassion for ourselves. I seek to find compassion and acceptance for the people not like me too, whose lives haven't given them the gifts of clarity and depth as have ours. I see some of you shaking your heads, but this is how I have come to believe.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Good Morning New Leaf. I'm thinking of you and hoping things are resolving, clearing, stabilizing, settling. Which is to say, I hope you are okay. Love Copa
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I have no doubt that for you, you've reached a new level. And after a period of upheaval and disorientation, you will begin to find coherence, and a new understanding and strength, based upon the challenges of right now.
A slow climb up the mountain. It is so much like an open wound that needs tender care and salve. The intense throbbing of the initial blow is starting to subside and I must facilitate a healing process. Time will help with that.
Well. Here you've written the story of all of our lives (kind of like our weird variation of Haiku.)
Ah, so true. Unfortunately. But it is the reality of dealing with an addicted loved one.
You have just the right degree of openness to allow change to enter when it's time. It's not time.
Thank you Copa for framing it this way. Openness. Hoku would much rather not deal with her sister, the memories of her childhood disrupted and the ensuing upheaval. I, on the other hand continue to hold out hope that one day she will see the light, but you are correct, it is not time.
She lives impulsively in the moment, seizing opportunities that present themselves, without forethought or anticipation of consequences. In the same way, she deals with momentary agony that threatens to surge into consciousness, by dulling it with substances. New Leaf. Until she has treatment, long-term (again), she will continue to live this way. No mortal who lives conventionally can handle this. Not you. Not me. For sure.
I cannot handle it. I hope that I made that clear enough during those few therapy sessions that it is just too painful to see up close and personal. That I would support her in recovery efforts, but not in using. I spoke with her cousin who wasted 18 years of his life, drugging, thieving, in and out of jail. He is clean and says he will not go back, but he does go and encourage Rain to take better care of herself. I told him it is too hurtful for me to see my adult children living under those conditions.
We have to center ourselves, in us, not them. I think mantras may help. A friend of a friend has a child similar to ours (different but somehow the same) and surprise, nothing worked. Until she decided she would write pages and pages of mantras. And guess what? She got better and so did her adult child who now well over 40 has a meaningful career providing exercise programs in nursing homes. He's great at it and loves it. He has his own apartment and is stable.
I believe you are correct here. Prayer is a form of mantra and while I do pray, that act of walking and praying was very centering for me. Thank you for this reminder. Self preservation. Boundaries within to stop cycling repetitive thoughts, replace that with prayer. That is how I have survived these past six years. Well more than that. It has been six years here, but before that........oh Lord.
In my own case, I am still involved with my son. But hard drugs are not his main problem and even if he was sober and recovering he would still need help. Which is how I justify my continued involvement although there are people who would view this as problematic, enabling, and a sign of my weakness.
“To each, their own.” No one has the right to judge another. We all have to walk our paths, the way we see fit at the time.
We're all so different with different circumstances, although weirdly similar. But self-torture helps NOTHING. If you find yourself perseverating about what-ifs, maybe you can do MANTRAS and know other mothers are with you doing the same.
I had nearly forgotten this tool. Things have been pretty settled before all of this. I have to stop ruminating, breathe and pray. Give it to God. It is too much

How can this be overlooked or minimized? I had not realized this before the past few days.
Yes, gang involvement. I don’t know how much she associates, but just the thought of it is frightening.
For me, you've always exuded health. Maybe it's all the canoes. Personally, I feel with time and respite you'll find yourself and your health. But that means that right now we've all got to do healthy things for mind, body, and spirit.
I have had issues with arthritis for years, it escalated in the past two years to a point where I have flare ups that are very painful. There are times when I suffer fatigue and have to rest most of the day. It is exacerbated with stress, overdoing, too much sitting (at work) and especially eating processed foods. I have been working on eating non inflammatory foods and listening to my body. I will slowly build up my exercise tolerance this summer and hope to make progress there.

I see it as sharing, opening to suppo rt, telling the truth. Integrating and moving beyond the torment.
Thank you Copa.
You will. This is part of it. We can't deny what's happening or bury it. You can't. I can't. I am glad you came back, New Leaf.
Thank you Copa, me too. It has helped me sort through my feelings. Having kind and thoughtful response is incredibly helpful.
PS I don't think that people at work or in casual circumstances necessarily tell the truth of their lives. Or if they do it can be a very shallow and self-serving version. For some weird reason I am thinking of my mother here, who almost never helped me in my life, and usually thwarted me. And when I became very successful would brag and even once asked me, to give her some credit. I loved my mother very much and I love her still. But my mother could not accept the truth about herself or her life. I think that is a very common circumstance.
I suppose there are many in our work environment who don’t often share with others the challenges they face. I’m sorry your mother was not kind to you Copa.
I think by our sufferings with our children, we can achieve a form of grace in our life. A kind of acceptance and self-acceptance. A kind of honesty about who we are and what our lives have been. Kind of like a peculiar therapy. We shouldn't measure ourselves against other people (although we do.) I wish we would find compassion for ourselves. I seek to find compassion and acceptance for the people not like me too, whose lives haven't given them the gifts of clarity and depth as have ours. I see some of you shaking your heads, but this is how I have come to believe.
I agree.
much love
Leaf
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Good Morning New Leaf. I'm thinking of you and hoping things are resolving, clearing, stabilizing, settling. Which is to say, I hope you are okay. Love Copa
It so afternoon and I am at work. Things have slowed down a bit so I can sneak a post during lunchtime. Thank you Copa for checking in. I got a call from the SW asking again if there were family members interested in caring for baby. I told her that Hoku is. Well. SW asks how is her relationship with Tornado? Hmmmmmm. Well, Hoku is busy with her family and Tornado has been on the streets so.........
How on earth could these two sisters have any kind of relationship? They are living two very different lives. I get it, they want to make sure that Hoku is open to “reunification” efforts, but do these people not see enough to know that relationships with addicted, using family members are strained? Especially after years of witnessing the downward spiraling?
Hoku is to call her after she finishes work. We shall see what comes of this.
I spent a long day yesterday in the jungle clearing and planting. It was a good day.
I am trying to pull strength from my Dads philosophy. We don’t have control over much in this life, only over how we react to circumstances .
love to you
Leaf
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Another journey begins. Baby will be with Hoku tomorrow afternoon. There is much to do to help her with support and supplies. I received a call from Tornado today, she said she called the SW and plans to try and work on services to get back on track. We shall see. I am so relieved my grandson will be with his aunty. Thank you all for your kind thoughts and prayers.
New Leaf
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Another journey begins. Baby will be with Hoku tomorrow afternoon. There is much to do to help her with support and supplies. I received a call from Tornado today, she said she called the SW and plans to try and work on services to get back on track. We shall see. I am so relieved my grandson will be with his aunty. Thank you all for your kind thoughts and prayers.
New Leaf
Dear new leaf!! I am thrilled!!! What fantastic news on both counts!!! How very exciting!!! Please, please, please keep posting, for now. I just can't wait to hear how it goes. I am just thrilled new leaf. Love Copa (I'm on a cell. Computer broke. )
 

MissLulu

Well-Known Member
New Leaf, that is WONDERFUL news. I am so happy to hear this. It also sounds like Tornado is trying, and that is no small thing. Keep us posted if you can.
 
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