Never disinherit your kid

[Copabanana]

Part of the struggle in our guts is knowing Difficult Child will likely inherit $300,000 (or near that) from my mom while our offspring will most likely inherit around $30,000 from husband and me.

I would almost be inclined to speak to your parents, if you believe there is even one percent chance that they might listen.

The damage that will be done is just too great.

She is damaging your son, mightily, who will have no chance what so ever with that kind of money, to finally become a good person and man.

She is hurting your children, your others, who would truly benefit from 100k each. They could pay off their mortgages or send their kids to college. Or be a little bit safer when they are old.

I mean, the cruelty is making my head spin. The irresponsibility of it.

Of course, her aim must be to hurt you--but really, how much more can she hurt you--except by hurting your kids--which she is willing to do.

By talking to her and your dad, you will not get her to change, but you will have said your piece. You cannot protect your children against her, but you would have spoken up for them and for yourselves.

And I, for one, would like to hear from her, what she is after. Probably it is only to tell you how wrong and bad you are. As a daughter, a mother. What a piece of work. On second thought, better not to talk to her. Because she will only use the opportunity to try to hurt you.

But if you know that going in....

If your father was stronger, I might suggest that he remedy to some extent what your mother has done by leaving *your part, to your other two kids. She would never allow this. But you could say it. Again, by saying what is right, we have some control. Not over outcome but morally we have taken a stand.

The word evil comes to mind, but of course, ill, might be apt. I wonder, though. I am sorry Seeking.

As far as cutting your son out, (I think you have 3 kids total. Is that right?) If you cut son out, how much more would the other kids get? I mean, would it be worth it?

The thing is, your moral legacy is worth way more.

Could you not help the other kids out while you live, to their benefit, not their brother's?

I do not want your son to have the ability to say one more thing about you and your husband.

This is like something in a Faulkner novel....Do you live in the deep south? (a joke.)

 

[InsaneCdn]

Option: quietly take out life insurance on yourselves - dual insurance, paid out when the last one dies, with beneficiaries being the "other two" kids. This money will not even go through the will. You would make the payments.

 

[Copabanana]

quietly take out life insurance on yourselves

This is brilliant, Insane. Absolutely brilliant.

I would worry that it would be quite expensive, but Seeking and her husband are not that old.

What do you think, Seeking?

 

[Copabanana]

take out life insurance on yourselves

Or if it is expensive, could the kids pay a portion of the premiums? Like a savings account.

In that case, it would not be quietly, as Insane suggests, but a collective family strategy to redress inequity that would not damage the family further.

If such a plan was put into place I would not have a problem explaining in the will that the other kids are receiving a larger portion of assets to compensate for any expenditure they made for the life insurance. I would not have a problem about explaining to my parents, (and son) that this is what you will be doing, and why.

I love this idea.

In this way, no one of your children would be left out in the cold, and no one of your children would benefit at the expense of another. You would be taking a stand for equity and fairness for your children.

 

[Copabanana]

PS. If you like the idea of the insurance, and it is feasible I would try to get an amount nearly as big as your son would be getting, say $500,000, $250,000 each child. I took out term insurance when I was 50--but it was only for 10 or 15 years. The payments were quite reasonable. A whole life would be way more.

There are sites on the internet that compete for your business. I remember there were a number of quotes, which differed greatly in cost.

 

[Copabanana]

How awful that must have been for them both. For the father to have played that ultimate card and then, to have lost his child before he could undo what he had done.

When I read this, Going, first I thought that it must have felt awful for Stu's father to have him die before father could play the ultimate care of having power over him from the grave, with his money.

You know my son and I *and M are among the least materialistic people I know....certainly in my family.
And yet money looms so large in my son's sense of his own power. He feels powerful with money, and submits when he has none.

Very sad, this thread.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

We just found out today that my mom is seriously considering leaving any inheritance I might have had to Difficult Child

It isn't the inheritance. It's the intention. Please google Malignant Narcissist mother, Seeking. You may find some small comfort there.

...and nothing to his younger siblings

Oh, no.

Possible for you to prepare now to contest the Will in the name of the other two children if this happens?

They have made life mistakes, but are sweet and loving and make us proud....and even seem to like us/spend time with us.

And that, according to the grandmother and the grandson, is their crime.

In supporting you, in seeing you at all, they are ruining the Shun. Ruining the mother's lust for power, and interfering with her lust for vengeance.

If this happens, husband and I are very seriously considering changing our will. Perhaps leaving Difficult Child $1000 with the explanation that he got his inheritance early from his grandmother and dividing our other assets between our other two offspring.

When my paternal grandmother died, her assets were divided equally between her two sons. But my grandmother listed money still owing to her from each son's children (or the son himself) against the size of that son's inheritance.

It is all so crazy and it is our reality.

It is not crazy, Seeking. It is malice.

I do not think you should alter your will. I would not. I believe it would be playing into what your mother is doing, which is trying to divide your family, perhaps even to destroy it

There will be strength for you and husband, Seeking, in this response.

Actually, I would find a way to make equity even with respect to the stuff, the contents of the house.

I agree.

I wish my mother had spelled out before she died how her stuff was to be handled.

She left it that my sister and I were to go into the house together. My mother's only stipulation was that each daughter was to get some of what she wanted. I will spare you the details but it was a bloodbath.

This is something to think about.

But what we are not addressing here is the core level betrayal Seeking's son is committing. To have slithered into an alliance with Seeking's dysfunctional mother (as my sister has, too) and then, to have gone straight for the Will (as my sister also has done) is an indication of how this brother will treat his sibs once Seeking and her husband are gone. He will form alliance with the one he can dominate, isolating the other. Past behavior indicates future behavior.

Malice.

That is a good word to remember, when addressing the behavior of both Seeking's mother and her son.

Seeking, I am horrified.

I am getting this info from my brother, whom I trust completely. My mom (mentioned many times on this forum) has mental issues and has always believed Difficult Child about mistreatment, etc. He is not working, except for "helping" my 83yo mom full time.

I am so angry for your sake.

Not only has the grandmother betrayed you and your D H in harboring this grown man grandchild against your wishes, but she has prevented the very things you and D H have sacrificed your relationship to this son to achieve: The grandson's independence and self respect.

And of course, the grandmother knows this, too. You give her too much credit when you believe she believes his stories of mistreatment, and that is why she is helping him now.

She is helping him now to destroy you.

And him.

As I think about it, I am wondering if what she is looking for is a response from you.

She is gutting you through your son Seeking, and he is not only allowing, but celebrating that.

Never let them see you sweat.

How you have managed these years to make any kind of relationship, is a credit to you and to your husband

A web of lies is created and believed. Alliances are formed between the primary abuser and those he or she can dominate. The purpose of the alliance is to isolate and punish the one who refuses to be dominated.

Winner takes all.

And it isn't about the money.

Part of the struggle in our guts is knowing Difficult Child will likely inherit $300,000 (or near that) from my mom while our offspring will most likely inherit around $30,000 from husband and me.

This is unbelievable. That your mother would do this turns my stomach.

I mean, the cruelty is making my head spin. The irresponsibility of it.

Option: quietly take out life insurance on yourselves - dual insurance, paid out when the last one dies, with beneficiaries being the "other two" kids. This money will not even go through the will. You would make the payments.

IC, this is genius.

***

Seeking, why did the brother tell you this. Are you certain (I suppose there can be no way to know) that your mother is not splitting your inheritance equally between your children.

What is the brother's relationship to your mother? Does he have his own money or is his inheritance on the line here too.

Tell him nothing you do not want your mother to know.

Cedar

 

[SeekingStrength]

Thanks. It always amazes me how you folks get right to the truth - truths I have not spelled out just because it seemed too much to type.

I will look into the life insurance. At our ages, I think it would be cost-prohibitive and at least one of our kids would not be able to help with the premium. He just graduated from college and has student loans and all the expenses of starting his new life. Yet, we are young enough that a 10-15 yr term policy would not be good enough. But, I'll get some numbers to see.

What my mother has told my father is that she wants to leave my part in the will to my Difficult Child. The grandchildren aren't listed in the will, just my brother and I. So, my brother and my Difficult Child would be the two beneficiaries.

Ah yes, the Narcisisstic thing...and I will Google the Malignant type.

I marvel at how long i have tried to keep a relationship going with my mother. There have been numerous times of her not speaking to me. At 60yo, I am too, too old to play her game.

About a week ago, within a 5 hour period, I received a vm and three emails from her. She said my dad told her that perhaps I was ready to meet with Difficult Child. (I have not spoken with my parents since the second week in March, but had sent several friendly emails to her in May that were never answered. She claimed to have just found them and responded to each one during that 5 hour time frame). I sent a friendly, newsy email the next day and mentioned that the time was not right for husband and me to meet with Difficult Child and that I had promised Difficult Child not to discuss him with her and intended to honor that. Never heard a word back.

I did tell Difficult Child I would not discuss him with my mother. She was repeating everything I said about him, and most assuredly in a twisted way. And, I knew better than to have ever said anything to her. I knew better from reading this forum.

At one time, my dad would stand up to my mother. I think he got so tired of the punishment, he just kind of gave up/gave in to keep peace.

While I trust my brother, I am careful with what I say. He lives in the same town and sees my parents several times a week. He does a lot of work for them around the house and yard.

Oh, he texted me an FYI yesterday that Difficult Child was showing my parents my daughter's FB page. My daughter has Difficult Child blocked so we have no idea how he is doing that. There is nothing incriminating, but she is way more liberal than my parents. Brother and Dad had just had lunch and i guess brother just wanted to update me on what was going on.

He and i have always been close.

He is their favorite. ; >

Thanks again for having my back. I feel better.

 

[Copabanana]

At our ages, I think it would be cost-prohibitive and at least one of our kids would not be able to help with the premium.

Seeking, let us be hopeful that it may not be too much money, and that there may be a workable solution. Even if just one of the kids could help with the premium for now, the greater investment by one could hopefully be compensated for as time passes.

Remember, Seeking. You have right on your side.

I wonder if this is extortion by your mother. Is that the word? Where one person threatens another to secure a desired outcome. Maybe she is trying to manipulate you so that you will meet with your son, on her terms rather than your own. Why in the world she would do that, I have no idea. Seeking. Your mother gets the prize. And that is not a good thing, unfortunately.

An offer you cannot refuse, comes to mind. She is bargaining not just with your lives, yours and your D H, but your other kids lives too.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I sent a friendly, newsy email the next day and mentioned that the time was not right for husband and me to meet with Difficult Child and that I had promised Difficult Child not to discuss him with her and intended to honor that. Never heard a word back.

You did so good, Seeking.

You handled this perfectly.

She said my dad told her that perhaps I was ready to meet with Difficult Child.

Sounds like there may be trouble in paradise.

How crappy of her to have so slyly coerced and so subtly threatened you, Seeking.

It is very hard for me to speak with my mother. Though I know I cannot trust her I love her, and I miss her fiercely.

It's the craziest thing.

The name for that state of mind is cognitive dissonance. It feels a little like being a ping pong ball. Just a wild swing of emotion, one extreme to its opposite while the first one is still smoking away on the back burner. I've read that, whatever our feelings regarding our parents and sibs, the best thing for us to do is to listen to the feelings as though they were our children, hurt or being bullied on the playground. Witness them scream or rage or feel abandoned. At the heart of it, however the emotion presents, the need for healing will be 1) The need to feel, not loved, but lovable. 2) The need to feel appreciated. 3) The need to feel we are enough. Good enough, smart enough, enough enough.

If we can learn to hear our pain with this understanding of its genesis, we will learn to nurture ourselves with the very things we have always needed from our mothers, but may not have received. We will have to listen many times. At the end of it, we will be our own, no longer in thrall to, or vulnerable in the same ways, to our merciless Families of Origin.

Do you and your husband have a concept of what son's life would look like for you to feel comfortable helping him? It helped me to know when I would help, so I was clear on why I was saying no.

Cedar

Geez, Seeking. For $300 K I will take your son.

:O)

 

[Copabanana]

You are right, seeking, it would be very expensive to get a whole life policy that would have a cash value upon death.

I copied this from CNN.com:

Premiums for cash-value policies are much higher. For example, the healthy 35-year-old man who pays $430 a year for a $500,000 term policy would pay about $4,400 a year for a $500,000 universal life policy - in part because a portion of that $4,400 is going into the investment component of the policy.​

In a sense, a policy like this would be a savings account. Say at least one of you had a life expectancy of 90 years, and the youngest of you is say, 60. $4400 x 30 years equals about $130,000.

So that does not seem so bad. Except I do not know if in a joint life insurance policy the costs would be double!! How could anybody afford $8800 a year?

If you decide to research this bankrate.com has articles on insurance.

I am seething thinking about what your mother is doing. I wonder if Cedar has a point about seeking out an attorney to see if there is something that can be done legally, or not.

Except now I am thinking that perhaps the only thing to do is to accept. To just let it all go. Because any way you engage with her, even trying to fight her, she wins. That the only thing to do is to have a talk with your children and to explain and to prepare them for what will come.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Geez, Seeking. For $300 K I will take your son.

HA! I am not convinced. Hang with him a day first.

I received an email from my mom today, asking if I had received the emails she sent last week. The email was mostly about how worried she is about my daughter, that she believes her to have an illness that is affecting her bone marrow, heart, and other organs and that she does not have money to help her, but will try to later. And that she and my dad are sorry they missed daughter's birthday.

While this may sound like a strange email, it is fairly typical of the stuff my mom writes/says. She never mentioned daughter's FB page, but i suspect it has something to do with what she saw on that FB page.

 

[Copabanana]

illness that is affecting her bone marrow, heart, and other organs

Whaaat?

There is an illness called Amyloidosis which has these characteristics. I just googled it. I hope to g-d your mother has fantasied this or your daughter has exaggerated on her facebook page.

Forgive me for looking for rationality here but if she is so concerned about daughter, why does she seek to disinherit her? Because by writing you off, she writes off your (two) kids.

Unfortunately I think my overreaction has something to do with my sense that there is some eerie resemblance between your mother and my sister/and a tiny bit to my mother.

Seeking. I am thinking that what your mother is trying to do whatever she can to get you to talk to her. Unfortunately she is so out of control and unclear and uncaring about her own and your appropriate boundaries, it is beginning to look like a Godfather movie--take your pick--or make that a horror movie. Can you hear the music in the background? (PS By my choice of music I am not insinuating that any of our relatives are ill--except perhaps my sister.)

Oh. I will go to youtube and see if I can find some.

Music from Psycho

 

[SeekingStrength]

lolol, Copa. I guess I am used to the cwazy part and it is almost normal to me.

What my parents saw on daughter's FB page that would upset them (at least, all I could see that might cause this reaction) was: daughter posted a photo of a card she found in a church that urged folks not to shop at Target because of the transgender bathroom deal and daughter shared her thoughts on that - that she was disgusted with the message and how she could not believe she found it in a church, etc. and how unChristian she finds the outcry. (daughter's job has her traveling around and using churches and other similar venues for her work - foster kid related).

My mother, unbelieving that somebody in her family would think like that, has decided that person (her granddaughter) must have a serious disease to cause her brain to think in such a way.

I am fairly confident in my assumption.

Is she a whack job? You think? (but, you would not believe how long I tried not to believe that. Her brother, my uncle, sat me down about five years ago to talk to me about it and I cried. His wife stopped him with "This is her mother" when he asked why on earth was I crying.) Her mom, my grandmother, talked to me about it more than once. Heck, my dad told me mom's dad tried to warn him before they married.

It is very hard for me to speak with my mother. Though I know I cannot trust her I love her, and I miss her fiercely.

this.


Thanks.

What Insane Cdn and others suggested has given husband and me an idea. Not life insurance but an account that we can name beneficiaries to, not part of the will.

 

[Copabanana]

that person (her granddaughter) must have a serious disease to cause her brain to think in such a way.

Oh dear. That she would prefer her granddaughter to suffer from a debilitating disease affecting her heart and other organs--not to mention bone marrow--rather than seeing your daughter as what? Empathic. Caring. OMG. Caring about civil liberties? She prefers all of her bone marrow to be compromised, over.....empathy?

What Insane Cdn and others suggested has given husband and me an idea. Not life insurance but an account that we can name beneficiaries to, not part of the will.

My mother did this (until my sister persuaded her to remove the money without telling me.) It is simple. You just put two names on the account. And it is outside the will.

Would the money not be better off in very well picked stocks and added over time? I am not good with money, but some people are. Maybe we can start a thread.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Except I do not know if in a joint life insurance policy the costs would be double!!

No. It is actually cheaper. Nothing gets paid out when the first person dies. The value of the policy comes due when the second person dies. It's a single policy, not two - but requires two people's live to be jointly insured. As long as one is living, the insurance isn't paid out.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a policy that had a cash value at the end of it - rather, a simple insurance policy that paid the face value of the insurance.

 

[GoingNorth]

Whaaat?

There is an illness called Amyloidosis which has these characteristics. I just googled it. I hope to g-d your mother has fantasied this or your daughter has exaggerated on her facebook page.


Music from Psycho

Hypocellular Myelodysplasia, a disease of the blood cell producing stem cells, causes similar problems in its later stages. The one nearly "for-sure-cure" for the illness is a bone marrow or stem cell transplant done early before the patient is symptomatic.

hMDS is mostly a disease of elder Ashkenazi Jews. Younger folks who get it, usually get it from toxin exposure. That's what happened to the newscaster Robin Roberts. She was diagnosed one day, had family match and transplant 2 days later and is doing great.

Roberts developed the disease as a side effect of chemo for breast cancer.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I received an email from my mom today, asking if I had received the emails she sent last week. The email was mostly about how worried she is about my daughter, that she believes her to have an illness that is affecting her bone marrow, heart, and other organs and that she does not have money to help her, but will try to later. And that she and my dad are sorry they missed daughter's birthday.

Now we know where Son got his vindictive email behavior. (The one about watching the obits to see whether his father was...you know the rest. That was so awful. I've never forgotten it.) What I found, as I went through the Chronicles experience here, is that though I might know intellectually that my mother's behaviors were manipulations, some part of me, some vulnerable emotional part of me, believed her. Believed she knew more than I did about what was happening, and was correct.

A mother's words, a father's words, echo through the generations in just that way.

So says me.

believes her to have an illness that is affecting her bone marrow, heart, and other organs and that she does not have money to help her, but will try to later. And that she and my dad are sorry they missed daughter's birthday.

This is blackmail, Seeking. I am stuck in italics. Excuse me.

Oh, that is awful, what she wrote.

Interesting that your mother references the grandfather, reminding you that she holds access to him hostage.

Too.

Along with the money. Which would, according to the mother, save the life of her daughter's child.

Oh, this is awful, Seeking.

Grandiosity addict, for sure.

I can't imagine what it was, to grow up with her.

While this may sound like a strange email, it is fairly typical of the stuff my mom writes/says. She never mentioned daughter's FB page, but i suspect it has something to do with what she saw on that FB page.

I found the meme about women beautiful.

The offense, to the abusive mother or sister (in my case, sister is right in there too) is that the victim has found an external source of strength and compassionate support. Have found, and believe in, new ways to think about themselves.

That you survived your upbringing to become the compassionate woman I hear in your posts finds me believing, again, in miracles and purpose.

My mother, unbelieving that somebody in her family would think like that, has decided that person (her granddaughter) must have a serious disease to cause her brain to think in such a way.

My sister does things like that. She believes herself to "walk with the Lord". At one time, when my children were little, she and her cohorts prayed a Ring of Thorns or a Ring of Fire or something around me and my children to "bring me to the Lord". Creepy. Thus does the "whack job" (Great terminology, Seeking! :O) ) justify hatred and relish vengeful thinking and turn envy into retribution.

And not to sound like a whack job here myself, but those intentions toward us are out there, and are sincerely held, and are held over time.

The sentence can be lifted if we come into the fold, admit we are wrong in our thinking, and do what the whack job mother or sister want. To save us, so that we can be saved. So they can finally stop checking the obits to see whether we are yet where they sincerely hope we will be.

Eternally.

The answer: Beauty for ashes.

Is she a whack job? You think? (but, you would not believe how long I tried not to believe that. Her brother, my uncle, sat me down about five years ago to talk to me about it and I cried. His wife stopped him with "This is her mother" when he asked why on earth was I crying.) Her mom, my grandmother, talked to me about it more than once. Heck, my dad told me mom's dad tried to warn him before they married.

I would believe it, Seeking.

That is what I meant, when I posted about believing what my mother said was deep in the bones correct. Though I could know intellectually that she was lying. Even after ferreting out the why behind the win in these behaviors for my mother or my sister, I felt like the Liar.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Hypocellular Myelodysplasia, a disease of the blood cell producing stem cells, causes similar problems in its later stages. The one nearly "for-sure-cure" for the illness is a bone marrow or stem cell transplant done early before the patient is symptomatic.

hMDS is mostly a disease of elder Ashkenazi Jews. Younger folks who get it, usually get it from toxin exposure. That's what happened to the newscaster Robin Roberts. She was diagnosed one day, had family match and transplant 2 days later and is doing great.

Roberts developed the disease as a side effect of chemo for breast cancer.

Wow, Going.

I didn't know that.

Cedar

 

[GoingNorth]

The early sx are fatigue and a non-iron/vitamin B12 responsive anemia with a low platelet count that is weird enough that a savvy doctor will order a bone marrow test.

It's a very rare disorder. The only reason I know so much about it is that Stu died of it. If caught early, we now have tx for it that extend life, and of course, the marrow transplant can save lives.