The Encounter

[Copabanana]

I am having a minorly bad day. A minorly bad day is this: Why is this happening? How can I bear this tragedy? How can I live for myself, if my son never rights himself? How can I live if my son is "out there"? What more could he be doing? Bad. How could I have avoided this? What could I have done differently? How can I live the rest of my life, like this? And a thousand other laments that feel like being beaten with a nautical rope.

A majorly bad day would be my son physically here, or physically squatting, or the police physically here, or g-d forbid, something actually bad happening.

So I get this is a minorly bad day.

But this is my point. It seems to me that the whole site can be condensed into 1 sentence which is: Stay in your own life. Every. Single.thread on PE or Substance abuse threads seems to deal primarily with us falling out of our own life into theirs...either literally (me) or through guilt, fear, and obligation, feeling tethered to results in them. And the answer every single time is as simple as can be. Step or climb back into your own life.

It took me 3 years to comprehend that basic black dress of Conduct Disorders: Stay in your own lane. Get out of theirs.

I am neither judging myself or anybody else.

And I am fully aware that we are their loving parents, and they are our beloved children. But the remedy is always the same: Disentangle our fragile and hurting selves from their stories. And with this we get stronger. Most days.

Except the fallacy in my account is this: because of our love we keep yearning to get back to them. And that is our tragedy and our fatal flaw. We love them. And we keep falling in.

It is not fog that blinds it, it is our love for them.

 

[New Leaf]

Your Rain and my S sounds very much alike, especially with the rationalizations for their behaviors. S could definitely have used that reasoning for stealing a bike from a boyfriend.

I am sorry you are dealing with this too, Elsi. That rationale goes against everything I have taught my kids, and it is also a reminder of why it is impossible to have a relationship with my daughter while she is in her current state. There are no rules, values thrown out the window for the next high.

Even if she is high again today and back in the chaos, that doesn't mean that the insights she showed the other day are meaningless. I really believe they are still percolating somewhere in there, taking root until she is ready to do something with them. There may be a lot more back and forth before that happens.

I hope this is so. That deep down inside she remembers what she has been taught. That is completely up to her to figure out where she wants to be. I just know that I can’t follow along with her on this journey.

I think in part to hide needle tracks. It's hard for me to understand. I don't even like being drunk - I hate the feeling of not being fully in control of myself. I truly can't understand the appeal that brings them back to these powerful, mind changing drugs over and over again. My brain just doesn't work that way.

I have a few beers now and then, wine, have stupidly overdone it a couple of times, but learned quickly that I don’t want to go there again. A few of my paddling friends do drink and quite a bit. I see them losing themselves in the haze and I know that is not for me. I feel......embarrassed for them, if they were sober, they would not act the same. I would much rather garden, take a walk, clean my house, lose myself in something functional.

Taking steps towards getting an ID sounds positive. Baby steps towards normalcy, right? I know how terrifying it is to have one on the streets with no ID. I think about that when I don't hear from one of them for a while.

I am glad she is at least speaking of it, as far as I know, she has rejected any notion of even considering talking with social workers.
Baby steps.
There is definitely a void when I don’t hear from my two. I chase away the terrible awful thoughts with prayer. I have dealt with this for so long and know my worrying does nothing for them, and causes me so much grief and anxiety. When I start to fret, I pray.
It is all I can do.
It is enough. I write this in bold for myself, as a reminder.

I'm glad she's staying in contact with you. That's positive, at least. And I'm glad you can let yourself feel sad without falling all the way back down the rabbit hole. Stay strong, Leafy. Hugs to you.

I have to be cautious and guard my heart. I don’t know her, and yet, I do. Being realistic without being judgemental is a fine line. I am quite cognizant of both my daughters ability to make me their mark. I have drawn a line with that, and feel that I would need to see huge steps before I would let my guard down, and still it would take some time before I would trust them.
With that stated, I have a lot of work to do on myself. I try to stay as far away from the edge of that rabbit hole as possible, but when new stuff taps me on the shoulder (like Tornado being in jail) I start ruminating. My brain goes into overdrive, and I lose focus. Life is way too short for this.

We struggle not to get ahead of ourselves when something positive happens. We struggle not to give in to hopelessness when it turns out to be more of the same ol' same ol'. It is probably little comfort, but I am in the same place tonight. Your daughters and my son are in my prayers.

I think of Dr. Seuss book “Oh the Places You’ll Go!”
Where I go in my mind, is what I am working on. Trying to stay steady state, a balancing act, but it shouldn’t feel like walking a tightrope. (I dislike heights, a lot).
I have thought more and more of that simple, stoic philosophy of what we can and cannot control. We complicate that, putting ourselves in the place our kids are at, as Copa says, putting ourselves in their stories. We want change for them, we would feel so much better, if their lives were on track, that’s a no brainer. Does our feeling badly, effect that change? Emphatically NO!
That’s what I am working on.
The feelings.
Rerunning those tapes, a proverbial chewing of the cud. Why do I do this? It does nothing, but cause me grief.

Why is this happening? How can I bear this tragedy? How can I live for myself, if my son never rights himself? How can I live if my son is "out there"? What more could he be doing? Bad. How could I have avoided this? What could I have done differently? How can I live the rest of my life, like this? And a thousand other laments that feel like being beaten with a nautical rope.

This is exactly what I am writing of, this self flagellation with questions, thoughts and feelings. As if we could go back in the past and find moments to fix......for a different outcome, or that anything we could say or do would change things. Nothing can change the past. As for the present and future, we can hope for change, but we can’t wish, feel, emote these circumstances away.
We can live our lives going over and over all of this, is it necessary? Is it fruitful? Does it help? Do we really want or need to live in shoulda, coulda, woulda land?

A majorly bad day would be my son physically here, or physically squatting, or the police physically here, or g-d forbid, something actually bad happening.

Been there, done that and you are right, that is majorly bad.

Every. Single.thread on PE or Substance abuse threads seems to deal primarily with us falling out l. of our own life into theirs...either literally (me) or through guilt, fear, and obligation, feeling tethered to results in them. And the answer every single time is as simple as can be. Step or climb back into your own life.

I have learned that my being tied to results does nothing. From rescuing, to housing, to trying to talk with them....offering advice, down to losing my own peace and joy from wanting them to wake up and grab hold of their lives and it not happening. I started suffering their consequences more than they did. I had to stop.

And I am fully aware that we are their loving parents, and they are our beloved children. But the remedy is always the same: Disentangle our fragile and hurting selves from their stories. And with this we get stronger. Most days.

I actually think it is a remedy for them as well. That they stop perceiving us as an option. Someone to fall back on. Then, they have to be resourceful.

Except the fallacy in my account is this: because of our love we keep yearning to get back to them. And that is our tragedy and our fatal flaw. We love them. And we keep falling in.

It is not fog that blinds it, it is our love for them.

Is it love? Or does it become a distorted version of love? Like Tornados exclaiming that “You may think that you are loving me, it is not the way I need to be loved.”

Our despair over our loved ones circumstances invokes knee jerk reactions that start to feel like love.
I blame emotion, separate from love. I am working on setting emotional boundaries, and this does not mean I do not love my two. I am recognizing that I have no control over their choices. That my despair over their consequences does nothing to help them, and ultimately harms me.
The article on detachment explains it so much better. I don’t like the word detachment, because I feel connected to my two, so I call it disentanglement.
The web wound tight around us, drawing us in to feeling a need to do something to fix the unbearable notion of suffering, they suffer, so do we. It all gets so mixed up with.......love.
Can we love them and do......nothing? Can we examine all of the somethings we have tried and think with our heads, not our hearts and understand that we have absolutely no control over their choices?
It is a wrestling with emotion.
This is where I get caught up with the term unconditional love. Tornado would describe it that I should house her, while she “finds herself” which means she can do whatever she wants, and I will provide for her.
It’s absurd.
I love my two.
I have to use my logical mind to reinforce the mantra that love says no. Then I have to stop defending that position, as if I am cold hearted by saying no, or by my desire to become more balanced and steady state to prevent myself from sinking into a swamp of emotions, that I am unfeeling, distant.
I have to go one step further, to prevent myself from falling into emotional entrapment, the cycling it creates, sadness and despair over their circumstances building up and tangling my own ability to live well, even though they are not.
Who am I to think that I have power over anyone, even my beloveds, to fix them?
If love could save, none of us would be here.
I think it is very important to separate the emotional upheaval we may feel, that propels and motivates us to react, separate that knee jerk reaction, from love.
We can love them, and live our lives with intention, without stepping in to their stories. We can learn to let go, without feeling that we are cold hearted monsters. We are not giving up on them, we give in to the ill conceived notion that anything we do or say will bring about change. That we are responsible for their decisions.
That our suffering and falling on the sword is proof of our love.
I think building courage and sense of self, setting boundaries and abiding by them, is love. It is a hard thing to practice, but it is what we wish for our beloveds. That they would examine their lives and choices, and choose better.
It is on them.
Is it not on us, to do the same?
Examine our lives and choose better.
I have a lot of work to do, setting emotional boundaries.
The love has and will always be there.
Letting go of my own emotional entanglement, the synchronistic downfall with feelings, that’s going to take some training.
I am getting a bit better, day by day. I am sure to have some slip ups here and there. That’s okay.
This is not easy.
Thanks guys, for following along and sharing your wisdom.
May we find peace and intention, each day.
For some reason, the saying "Physician, heal thyself" is repeating in my mind.
I looked up intention and found that used in medical terms, it means a process of healing wounds.
When our children are floundering it opens up old scars and creates new ones.
We are on our own journey, healing those wounds.

(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

Is it love? Or does it become a distorted version of love? Like Tornados exclaiming that “You may think that you are loving me, it is not the way I need to be loved.”

Hi New Leaf.

I don't have a lot of time this minute but wanted to respond.

I think it is both. It is love which is always at risk of morphing into it's distortion. No different than any other thing or emotion or idea taken to its extreme.

I think when we treat our love only as an addiction, a bad thing, because it can morph into badness, we lose, too.

I am seeing that this is what I do. The need to cut myself off entirely from my child, because I have an addiction (to him, to worry for him, to needing to control him, so that I do not suffer, etc.) is not the right way to go.

Although over and over again on this forum I have advocated this for others. I believe I can and should be better.

I need to find ways to change myself. Not act like he is demon rum.

This way of thinking is new to me in the last 24 hours.

I will try to get back to you later. Be well.

 

[New Leaf]

I think when we treat our love only as an addiction, a bad thing, because it can morph into badness, we lose, too.

It is interesting you wrote this Copa, because I was thinking sort of along the same train of thought this morning, that our love can become an addiction, an obsession, like anything else.
I need to be tied to the mast, too. I think that has everything to do with self control, with a lot of help from resources available. Will power. We are waging a battle not only with our adult children’s lifestyles, it is a battle within ourselves to develop courage and understanding,to seek and try new ways to view these circumstances and to act differently. As you wrote, change the channel.
It is a hard journey, but one that I hope will eventually lead to us having a greater understanding about ourselves, what our potential is at this time in our lives.
We are worth it.
One thing I know, is that I have this propensity to go to extremes, black and white. Finding balance is what I am working on. Like a dancer who remains focused and centered while twirling.
Equilibrium.
I will look for your post.
Take care,
Leafy

 

[Albatross]

I am seeing that this is what I do. The need to cut myself off entirely from my child, because I have an addiction (to him, to worry for him, to needing to control him, so that I do not suffer, etc.) is not the right way to go.

Copa, it is very interesting that you should say this. This is exactly my line of thought in the past couple of days...actually, since your post about 24-Hour Mother Disaster Headline News and changing the channel, which led to a shift in my thinking.

So when something happens to throw off my equilibrium, I trap myself in 24/7 mayhem and misery, then desperately grab for an escape. Yes, it IS an addiction.

It would be so nice to separate all of that crap out from my love. It would be so nice to return to being a mother I respect...a mother who hasn't lost her power, even if I don't have any power over him...if that makes any sense.

I am sure I will ramble here, but cutting off contact isn't the way I want to go, no matter how much I'm hurting.

Some of my proudest parenting memories are not the warm and fuzzy moments--they're the times my kids got the kind of what-for only a mother can give, because they had it coming. So I called my son last night. We had a "LITTLE CHAT," as they say, but it was good. It was good for both of us. Even if nothing changes, it was good, because it was honest and true.

 

[Tired out]

As I was reading this thread, I had an odd thought. You know how when you are mad at your parents when you are a kid and wish you would find out they aren't really your parents! There was a mix-up at the hospital, or you were adopted.
I thought..well what if I found out difficult son wasn't ours, (not like we made a choice to adopt, but it just happened that we were handed the wrong baby) . how would I feel about him? would I still be worried all the time? would I still think..what is he doing or would I think..whatever, be a jerk, and not feel I need to respond to a call or text. If he was just someone I heard about or one of my kids high school friends I would barely ever give him a thought, if ever. I think I am ready to compartmentalize him and quit worrying. He knows where to find us. so far when he has asked for help (since he moved out) we have helped, mainly because we are hoping he stays on track and never asks to move back in here. We can't take that stress. We have repaired all of the physical damage he did to our home and the emotional damage is on the mend. I am over missing him. I don't really know why I missed him anyway, It wasn't like any conversations we had in the last 3 -5 years had much if any truth to them from his mouth.
Big sigh.

 

[Copabanana]

It would be so nice to separate all of that crap out from my love

Yes. Maybe we can do this, Albatross. I hope so.

.a mother who hasn't lost her power, even if I don't have any power over him...if that makes any sense.

Of course this is crystal clear.

I will just write a few thoughts. I want to turn off the computer; it is Yom Kippur tomorrow and I want to at least try to be in the spirit.

Albatross. You were speaking this way before your son completed the program the first time. But everything changes when they are over the edge. Everything changes when we think we will die from pain, fear (and rage).

My son always had issues of some sort. But what changed, was our relationship. First it was that he had the normal adolescent hostility and pushback. While difficult, I could deal. But what I could not deal with was his suffering, his inability to get traction in his life, my own inability to make him stick with anything, and worst of all, my inability to help him with his suffering. The bottom line, is our relationship no longer worked. And this triggered all kinds of agony in me.

I will say this for me: it was I no longer worked. Not just that I no longer worked as a mother. I did not work as a human person, in relation to my son. The underside of my love was revealed. And it was broken. I was broken.

I am thinking about your post some more. It really is about power. But I do not think that for me it was lack of power over him. It was lack of power over me. It was lack of power in me. In relation to my love for him inside me. In psychiatry they call this Object Relations. It is too complex for me to understand alone. I have a friend who is a psychoanalyst that could help me. But she is not so kind, and I do not think I want to risk it.

It is hard to reveal all of this. Really, I reveal too much. But I don't know how else to change myself.

Some of it was this: I was exposed as a fraud. Or as somebody other than who I thought I was or wanted to be. And with that came a loss of integrity. And loss of self-control. Inability to stay in the present. Going into blaming. Getting into a power struggle, in order to gain control over myself. But I really think what was revealed was attachment issues on my part, that had never been triggered in relationship to my son. I never thought that there would come a time I would choose to write these words, here, but here they are.

I have known all of this for maybe 11 years. But I have never been able to deal with it, really. I have brought up the words, but I have not known how to deal with it, really. I have put it under wraps.

Before I kicked out my son when he was 23 I was treading water. I refused to accept we were dealing with a new paradigm. I just kept operating (unsuccessfully) from the old one. M and this acquaintance of ours who I had asked to spend time with my son, to see if he could make headway said it was a question of over-indulgence and too much support on my part--that were to blame. And that if I kicked my son out, he would have to step up. *Wrong. You see. I really did not know what to do. I still do not know what to do. If somebody tells me what to do, I do it. There is no more that I know to do. Here I am cornered standing in front of a mirror.

Honest, heartfelt, present, loving, open, authentic conversation between my son and I: OMG. If you asked me why I haven't, cannot do this, I would not be able to tell you. I can do it with anybody else in the world, at least some. Well. Actually. I could not with my family.

I do not want my son to be my drug. And I do not want to have to abstain from him, which is what my recent posts have maintained. I do not want to relapse, but I do not want to live alienated from the person I have loved most in my life.

I may be an addict but there has to be another way, where I can have a relationship with my son, and not make him into demon rum. Not make him into a pill. Or some other thing. He is my son. No wonder he hung up on me.

But I have no defenses. None. I do not know how to do this.

I have thought before of going to AA to try to learn how to deal with my addictive behavior in relation to my son. But I do not want to renounce him. Or to live as if my love for him is a vice. I do not want to objectify him. I do not want to have to isolate him. Or push him away.

Maybe I will begin to read about alternate treatment methodologies for addiction, like the one LBL told us about, Harm Reduction. Remember how we mocked it? Or I did.

Anyway, I will be back on Thursday. I will miss you all.

 

[Copabanana]

you were adopted.

My son is adopted. It does not one thing to reduce the pain or to make this any less intolerable.

 

[Tired out]

My son is adopted. It does not one thing to reduce the pain or to make this any less intolerable.

Copa, No I wouldn't think it would make the pain any less if your child was adopted. what I was trying to say is that if out of no where we were told he isn't the baby I had in the hospital..but I raised him for 21 years so I would be just as wrapped in his as I am now. I may look else where for answers..I can't find anything genetic on either side of our families to explain him. He just is.

 

[Nature]

Oh Leafy I had so hoped that this would be the turning point for your daughter but perhaps in a small way it was. There was something there that made her seek you out...she remembered a mothers loving touch. For a brief moment you experienced that hug from her. I understand your heart was happy at that very moment yet you probably experienced fear her self realization would not last. Yet, like a flame there was a brief flicker of lucidness in Rain.

I always think of you as you have always reached out to others in their time of pain and I wish I could offer you solace and support for you. Sometimes we try not to think about our children as it brings up so much pain and then we hear from them or see them and the wounds open up again. I wouldn't wish this life on my worst enemies - it's tortuous and always ongoing. We love our children yet we understand it is their choices that had led them down this path. I'm sorry you are going through this. Hugs.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Nature

There was something there that made her seek you out...she remembered a mothers loving touch. For a brief moment you experienced that hug from her.

It was a brief moment, and it was lovely yet sad at the same time. I will hang on to that hug and hope that it is a start.

Yet, like a flame there was a brief flicker of lucidness in Rain.

A spark. I believe we all have that spark and seek meaning to our lives.

I wish I could offer you solace and support for you.

You already are, Nature, thank you.

I wouldn't wish this life on my worst enemies - it's tortuous and always ongoing. We love our children yet we understand it is their choices that had led them down this path. I'm sorry you are going through this. Hugs.

Thank you Nature. I am trying to separate my emotional reactions with these encounters. I want to make it just another Tuesday, like it is for them. I am working on being thankful for the time I had raising my two, recognizing their capability to pull up and out of the choices they make.
It is up to them to fan the spark they were born with. I have absolutely no control over this. Trying to channel my dad and his stoicism, but at the same time, have hope for change. I realize I cannot base the rest of my life on whether or not this happens. Life is too short for that.
I would not wish this on anyone as well, but we are dealt with the cards we are. The challenge is, how do we use this as a teachable moment for ourselves? What are we supposed to be learning?
How do I turn this around and use it to grow and find my own purpose?
It is a work in progress. I have a long way to go.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy