The truth comes out...maybe

[Tanya M]

He actually denied saying the things the police say he admitted to...stating that he did not admit or deny anything. I asked him who he thinks people will believe; him or the police?

I really think that difficult child's actually believe their own lies. It reminds me of when little kids close their eyes because they believe you can't see them if they can't see you.

I've got 3+ weeks to figure out what I'm willing to do and what I can do...and whether I'm willing to help him - Just. This. Once! - remains to be seen.

For me, I would support him emotionally and offer advice but I would not spend money on a lawyer. You have to do what you are comfortable with at this point. To help or not to help. Sounds like a bad Shakespeare play.
I do wonder though, if your son thinks/expects that since you are a lawyer that you will make this all go away for him.

Our son stated that they will need to come back tomorrow to pick it up. Lil informed him that we would be busy and not able to give him a ride so would he like a dollar for the bus? She then backpedaled, remembering that tomorrow is a holiday which she mentioned. Our son stated that the last time he rode the bus they mentioned that the buses wouldn't be running on MLK Day. Lil said "So I guess you won't be riding the bus tomorrow so you don't need that dollar." She's learning!!!

Good for you Lil.

It's tough roller coaster ride to be on for sure and all you know is want off the ride. It would be nice if there was a once size fits all answer but there's not, especially when you are dealing with peoples emotions and a mothers love is probably one of the strongest emotions there is.

 

[InsaneCdn]

We had them over once to sniff her room (actually, a dog did that).

 

[BusynMember]

).

I thought I'd better clarify that the cops didn't do the snffin'!!!!!

 

[Jabberwockey]

Well, he called about an hour ago. No idea what he wanted as Lil wasn't quick enough getting the phone out of her purse, and he didn't leave a message or call back. Oh, and we didn't call him back either. Figured if it was important enough he'd call back.

 

[Lil]

We did our own thing today, which unfortunately meant lawn work. When we were done with that we went to a friends house for a while. As we were leaving we told her we'd kicked him out and I'm darned if my phone didn't ring! It's like Beetlejuice, I say his name and there he is! I missed the call and he didn't call Jabber or leave a voice mail, so I turned my ringer off. He hasn't called back, so I guess it wasn't important.

 

[pasajes4]

It is our emotions that keep us stuck doing the same things over and over. It is not easy, but it is necessary to put our

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

To put our....

Pasa?

Cedar

 

[SuZir]

At least with the coach, I would imagine he has seen other kids on the same road and sees a possibility of helping someone out.

Nah, not likely. He is one of those we around here call examples of "new era of coaching." Played himself in juniors but wasn't too good and has been very driven in building his coaching career from his High School days. Master's degree on Sport Science, minors in adult education and math to better understand mathematical analyse of the game, never coached youth, but got hired as an assistant coach to the pro team with whom he did his master's thesis practical research part, spent few years as an assistant before getting his first head coach job. That kind of guy.

I in fact asked him last summer why on earth does he want to hang out with my kid. Ache was home and he came to pick him up for golf course. I had just seen him in tv couple days before in panel discussion about sport's role in our society (Football World Cup had just started so sports were very current topic in general) being very smart and sophisticated and there was my kid in our garden squabbling with his younger brother over something especially childish, so difference was particularly striking. I didn't get a very good answer though. He just asked me if I knew that Ache was very smart, has an unique world view and very peculiar sense of humour, which I do know is all true. I guess he and his journalist friend (they are childhood buddies if I have understood correctly and Ache got to know the journalist first, he was between the jobs and doing freelance work for Ache's then Club) just know a different version of Ache at least partly than the one we see at home mostly.

But it is a mystery for me.

I really think that difficult child's actually believe their own lies. It reminds me of when little kids close their eyes because they believe you can't see them if they can't see you.

I think this is at least partly true. Most people do some wishful thinking and makeabelieve when it comes to important things in their lives. For example people often see themselves as rather different personalities than outsiders see. It becomes very striking for example in social media. For example I have seen countless Fb posts from people where they describe themselves as strong willed, bold and being temperamental - half of them are so shy that they don't even dare to say hello to people they don't know well. Or people talk on and on how petite and athletic their young kids are, while kids are actually very chubby and bit behind in gross motor skills. And let's not forget all the really hard workers out there, who get very little done. Or all those over weight people, who always eat very little and never any treats but just get heavier if they even see the doughnut (of that, there is even quite a lot research, those people actually do forget those two chocolate bars they had for a snack) We believe what we want to believe especially when it comes to things close and dear to us. If we wish something to be true, we often do end up believing it to be true.

And I'm sure this is even more typical to our troubled kids. If they wish it to be true, they will convince themselves it is.

 

[Hope_Floats]

I think this is at least partly true. Most people do some wishful thinking and makeabelieve when it comes to important things in their lives. For example people often see themselves as rather different personalities than outsiders see. It becomes very striking for example in social media. For example I have seen countless Fb posts from people where they describe themselves as strong willed, bold and being temperamental - half of them are so shy that they don't even dare to say hello to people they don't know well. Or people talk on and on how petite and athletic their young kids are, while kids are actually very chubby and bit behind in gross motor skills. And let's not forget all the really hard workers out there, who get very little done. Or all those over weight people, who always eat very little and never any treats but just get heavier if they even see the doughnut (of that, there is even quite a lot research, those people actually do forget those two chocolate bars they had for a snack) We believe what we want to believe especially when it comes to things close and dear to us. If we wish something to be true, we often do end up believing it to be true.

And I'm sure this is even more typical to our difficult children. If they wish it to be true, they will convince themselves it is.

This SO reminded me of someone that my husband once told me about, who had said "I am very goal oriented." as the answer to some interview question. So he asked her, "So what are some of your goals?" The answer: "Huh?" That made me laugh out loud.

 

[Lil]

Well ... and that ain't Dairy Queen soft-serve chocolate.

My boss just told me I have to apply for permission for secondary employment to represent my OWN KID...even in a single, municipal court matter. I did not want everyone in the chain of command to know about this.

Working for the state is such a pain in the tuchus sometimes.

 

[InsaneCdn]

My boss just told me I have to apply for permission for secondary employment to represent my OWN KID

Bureaucratic BS. We deal with enough of it from our difficult child kids, we don't need it from employers too.

 

[Lil]

I would understand if it had anything whatsoever to do with my job, but I issue child support orders! I could see them not letting me do a divorce with kids involved, or even work on someone's disability case or something, which would be against social services. But this?

The last time I asked to do a little old lady from my church's ticket and they never even gave me an answer...just flat ignored the request formally. Informally I was told no, so I got someone else to help her...but really, to not even tell me no definitively?

It's just so annoying. I happen to be an attorney so I can do a bit more than your average parent...but it isn't like I'm doing a jury trial here. And it's municipal court, not state court.

They'll probably say yes...but technically they could say no.

(In which case I'll go to court if I damn well please and just tell the PA that I am, technically, not supposed to be representing anyone!)

 

[InsaneCdn]

If it wasn't that you're dealing with lawyers....

Technically, it isn't employment if you are not getting some form of remuneration. But... as a lawyer it could be considered Pro Bono services, right?

I thought accountants were bad for their technicality-based idiocy.

 

[Lil]

I thought accountants were bad for their technicality-based idiocy.

Oh we lawyers thrive on technicalities and government is even worse! lol Unfortunately, this is one time it's working against me.

 

[BusynMember]

Oh, Lil, you are so lucky you weren't here when 37 was going through his custody battle. Living in Missouri, I probably would have begged you for help just to shut him up...lol. In the end, after he almost drove me batty, he borrowed enough money from his dad to go to a lawyer at the C & C place (wink) and he won 50% custody. j

I'm only kidding that I would have asked you for help. I never would have bothered you with that torment or tried to torture you with 37 as a client, even though he could pay. He drove his lawyer nuts, although he was nice to her...he just called and asked questions and needed her to hold to his hand and that's not her job and finally, at the end, after she won, they kind of made peace.

She told my son something very interesting because after it was all over and he got everything he wanted, he asked her why she had been so negative and cautious and she had laughed and said, "I could tell you were very high strung and if they got you on the stand, I wanted you to be afraid enough to listen to my directions. I am extremely competitive and I HATE LOSING!!!" My son liked her very much and she rocked as a lawyer.

My nosy question, which you certainly don't have to answer, is...do you feel lawyers are very competitive? Winning meant everything to her.

by the way, she was nothing short of a brilliant woman. And I almost married a lawyer and his brilliance was obvious. I just was kind of afraid of the power he had (he was a very powerful lawyer). At any rate, my point is that I have come to believe that most lawyers have got to be some of our greatest minds in the country, academically. You must be a very intelligent woman. Jabber, how do you keep up with your wife? (This is also a question that doesn't need to be answered...lol).

 

[Jabberwockey]

My nosy question, which you certainly don't have to answer, is...do you feel lawyers are very competitive? Winning meant everything to her.

I believe this is where I should insert the old idiom about a bear's preferred place to defecate! Although having said that, Lil tends to be fairly selective about what she gets competitive about.

Jabber, how do you keep up with your wife? (This is also a question that doesn't need to be answered...lol).

Keep up? I don't even try. She has her strengths and I have mine. I could NEVER be a lawyer as I despise technicalities. Way too much about the letter of the law and not nearly enough about the spirit. And as Lil said, lawyers embrace technicalities!

 

[Lil]

I forgot my usual disclaimer: Please don't ask for free legal advice! You'll get what you pay for!

I generally don't tell people on-line I'm a lawyer. LOL

My nosy question, which you certainly don't have to answer, is...do you feel lawyers are very competitive? Winning meant everything to her

Depends. Just like everyone else, they come in all types. You have to be somewhat competitive to litigate. I mean, if you don't want to win, you have no business in a courtroom.

I hate not being right. I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken about that. I liked going to court back when I was in private practice. I actually got to argue in front of the state Supreme Court, the whole bench, not just a panel of 3 like you sometimes get. It was incredibly cool...mostly because the opposing side went first and was just being GRILLED by the Court. I could tell I was going to win before I even opened my mouth, so the confidence was thru the roof. Best part of my six years as a private attorney.

That competitiveness didn't really carry over to other areas for me. I don't care if I lose at Words With Friends, lol, or if my Chili comes in dead last at a chili cookoff - (well, the chili might bug me a little ) but generally, if I thought my side should win, I'd do my darndest to win!

And of course, you always think your side should win.

At any rate, my point is that I have come to believe that most lawyers have got to be some of our greatest minds in the country, academically. You must be a very intelligent woman. Jabber, how do you keep up with your wife?

Book smart. I really think that's about it. The fact is, they say if you can get into law school, you can pass law school. A lot of people don't make it, so I don't know how true that is, but I didn't find law school terribly difficult. I'm quite good at remembering things I have read and there are learning aids you can buy. So really, memorize, regurgitate, apply law to facts, simple.

Accountants, scientists, computer programmers, doctors and nurses; people who DO things, not just KNOW things...THOSE people are smart in my opinion.

My Jabber is probably a lot smarter than I am.

 

[Lil]

How awesome are those posts???? We posted at the same time! LOL

 

[InsaneCdn]

Accountants, scientists, computer programmers, doctors and nurses; people who DO things, not just KNOW things...THOSE people are smart in my opinion.

Seriously?
Engineers, and machinists (and other trades), and farmers... ok, maybe doctors, nurses and vets. For the most part, they actually have to DO something.

But scientists? not the PhD ones...
Computer programmers? we just play around in the bit bucket, making stuff up as we go. (yes we)
And accountants... well, if law is straight forward, then accounting is obtuse, and the more obtuse you can be the better, but it doesn't take brilliance...

I can make the list of non-work longer if you want...
You have plenty of company

 

[Lil]

But scientists? not the PhD ones...
Computer programmers? we just play around in the bit bucket, making stuff up as we go. (yes we)
And accountants... well, if law is straight forward, then accounting is obtuse, and the more obtuse you can be the better, but it doesn't take brilliance...

Well, I've never developed a cure for a disease or invented anything, computer programming makes NO sense to me, and I can barely add without a calculator. So yeah...they're smarter than me.