The truth comes out...maybe

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Lil, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Quick update: Lil just called a few minutes ago. She took them there and they came out unsuccessful. The other difficult child (assuming this but a pretty good bet!) only had a paper license and an expired one at that so they were unsuccessful in their attempt to get money. His mom will have to resend it with a pass code to verify his identity to be able to pick it up. Our son stated that they will need to come back tomorrow to pick it up. Lil informed him that we would be busy and not able to give him a ride so would he like a dollar for the bus? She then backpedaled, remembering that tomorrow is a holiday which she mentioned. Our son stated that the last time he rode the bus they mentioned that the buses wouldn't be running on MLK Day. Lil said "So I guess you won't be riding the bus tomorrow so you don't need that dollar." She's learning!!!
     
  2. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    So sorry MWM, that was hard to watch. I sympathize with you though, we've been through heartache after heartache with our Browns.
     
  3. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I know. I feel bad for you guys too. When I liked baseball, before steroids took over, I was a White Sox fan and that was almost as horrible as being a Cubs fan...lol.

    It was hard to watch, but I knew, even at halftime, that we weren't going to win because we weren't far ahead enough of such a good team. And I like Russell Wilson...he's played for Wisconsin...so I'll be cheering big time for Seattle in the SB :)
     
  4. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Wow! Way to snatch Defeat from the jaws of Victory!
     
  5. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Hey...we did better than most against Seattle :) Honestly, our coaching staff is idiotic. You have to be a Packer fan to understand.

    At any rate, Seattle/NE will be a great SB. I'll be cheering for Seattle all the way. When the Packers aren't playing Seattle, I'm a huge Russ Wilson fan. He's such a good kid, unlike the many football difficult children.
     
  6. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    OMG Can I not even escape from football on this thread!!!:groan:
     
  7. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    So my son and I stayed in the car while his friend went in to try to retrieve the money. I (obviously) took them to a different Walmart than they were arrested at.

    I mentioned to my son that he'll likely end up barred from ever going to that Walmart again. He remarked that HE hadn't actually stolen anything.

    I told him I'd read the police report.

    He denied handing the other guy the DVD's, even after being told that was what the witness said happened...and that the police report said he admitted that he knew the other guy was going to steal them. He actually denied saying the things the police say he admitted to...stating that he did not admit or deny anything. I asked him who he thinks people will believe; him or the police? I admit, I did not come right out and say it...but implied...that I did not believe him. I should have just said so. I didn't bother telling him that I'm sure that there are security tapes and probably a recording of his police interrogation.

    I also told him I expected the BEST outcome will be a suspended imposition of sentence and probation, which would, if he completed the probation successfully, would result in no actual conviction. I told him I'd probably go with him. I also told him there was NO guarantee that the prosecutor or judge would go for that plea bargain and if not, and he ended up with a misdemeanor conviction then he would just have to take it and let the chips fall where they may.

    I also told him, "If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas." and that if he's going to hang around with people who steal, what does he expect? And that I don't know a thing about this other guy...except that he steals...and that neither one of them are high on my list of favorite people right now.

    Finally, when they realized it will be tomorrow to get the money and no buses will be running, I told them that I did not know if I am available tomorrow, as Jabber and I have plans. There was a remark about it being a really long walk (and it is several miles) and I told him, beggars can't be choosers. Pity he's never taken his bike, because it would be a simple bike ride.

    Then I went dropped them off and went shopping.

    So...we shall see. I'm just not going to dwell on this whole thing. The fact is, a hired attorney could probably get him the SIS and probation given his age, lack of any priors and the very small amount they attempted to steal. Can I? I don't know. PA's tend to do things when an attorney is hired that they won't do without one...kind of "they've already been punished" by spending money on a lawyer. I know that sounds terrible, but in my experience that is sometimes true. There are offices that literally won't amend a ticket, for instance, unless an attorney enters an appearance. I've had that happen just a few weeks ago...a little old lady at church got a ticket and I managed to get a friend to handle it pro-bono, because it was only a phone call and a letter to take care of it.

    I've got 3+ weeks to figure out what I'm willing to do and what I can do...and whether I'm willing to help him - Just. This. Once! - remains to be seen.
     
  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Lil, wow. Maybe I'm hardhearted, but you're way softer than I ever was. If I saw a police report, it would have been in my hand. If I didn't believe something, I'd say so and apologize later if proven wrong (my gut was always good). I had no tolerance for my kids lying to me and would have told my kid that there were cameras in Walmart that record everything. I also never got anyone to defend my kids because I figured if they didn't feel fear or see consequences they'd be more apt to do it again. Your son has already stolen from you. Now he's moving on to stealing from stores. There would not even be consideration of help from me because I always felt they'd never learn and they'd keep doing it if we stepped in. To be honest, at least in our case, the two kids who did illegal stuff stopped. 37 was always terrified of going to jail or the thought of it so the fact that if he kept breaking the law he AND his father would let him go it alone made him stop. My daughter was on parole twice before turning eighteen so she was pretty close to quitting her crazed life by eighteen and never did get a record. If she had continued and gotten a record, then that was on her. Mean, mean, mean, I guess.

    It is easy to go from stealing DVDs and getting away with it to stealing bigger stuff because they get bolder and then there is nothing you can really do. And the older they get, the less pity I'm guessing the judges will take on the person.

    Your son is lucky I am not his mother and either my ex or my current hubby are not his father(s). My ex has helped 37 out in regard to his son, but he'd never help him get out of breaking the law.

    You're also nice to even consider driving him anywhere. I always felt exercise was good for my kids. They were young and could walk. I did not feel even they, or I, needed a car for a few miles. I still walk a lot. Good for my girlish figger ;) This can be construed as part of the weight watching thread now: Exercise for all is far better than riding everywhere. By far, Americans drive more than people in any other country and we are the most overweight.

    Relax and forget about it now. Your son has done this to himself. You are giving and giving and I'll bet you never get a dime from him. If he doesn't change, you won't be able to save him forever. Eventually he'll be on his own. We can't live forever.
     
  9. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Hi, Lil and Jabber.

    Just wanted you to know I was reading along and wishing each of you, and your son, well.

    Cedar
     
  10. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    The ride would not have happened if I had not been going out anyway...and payday for the company he and the "friend" work for is still several days away. But it didn't work out for them. Too bad for them.

    Whether to help him at all was probably decided on page 2 of this thread. All that remains is how much.

    Regardless, I'm not going to stress about it. To quote Doris Day, que sera sera.

    I'm feeling remarkably calm these past few days.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
  11. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    What? :wow:Your son admits to the cops he went to the store to steal and you think his friend is a bad influence? Lil, Lil, Lil. Same could be said about your son by the other mother. Just saying because it seems even in the face of the facts that he stole numerous times from you two and now police report you seem to still be somewhat in denial that he is the problem, not who he hangs out with.
     
  12. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    I was willing to help my son until he lied to me and continued to lie to me even when he was confronted by the undisputable truth. I will not be treated like a fool by anyone and then continue to fund them.
     
  13. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Apparently no one understands what I'm saying here. This happens every time I say anything I swear.

    I got a lot of "help him" when I started this and a lot of "let him hang". I made my choice.

    Again, as I've said before, don't you people think I KNOW he's a liar? He lies so much I honestly don't know if he even knows the truth. As for bad influences, if he DIDN'T hang around with these people, he'd be LESS likely to do this crap. He's surrounded himself with them for years.

    I didn't mean he's innocent. According to the police report, he was JUST as involved as the other guy. I mean that he hangs out with the kind of people who does this stuff. He started in high school and his life has gone downhill since.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    OMG, my son moved into your house!

    "
    His other big thing is understanding...we don't understand. No one understands. He has to explain and explain and explain because we don't understand.

    I do really need you guys to really actually listen to me.
    I'm not trying to make things hard, I'm not trying
    to argue. I just want anyone at all to see my point, because
    noboby seems to be understanding me.


    If a person doesn't agree with him, they must not understand. He won't shut the hell up and just stop trying. He argues and argues and argues, but it's not arguing...it's "explaining".
     
  15. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    LOL Terry, I just said something similar on another thread. Sometimes I swear we have twins, some of the stuff you post is mine dead on. I hope yours does better.
     
  16. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    We have this proverb about stupidity exponentially increasing in groups. In other words group of like-minded idiots can be much more idiotic than the sum up of the idiocy of every individual in that group. The proverb is mainly used in association of (young(ish)) men and very young girls (after teen years we expect women to outgrow the idiocy ;)) and is generally considered to be very true.

    "Bad influence" generally doesn't mean, that there would be this one rotten apple who makes everyone else do stupid things. More often it is about group of youngsters vulnerable to stupid ideas coming together and ending up putting into the practise much more stupid ideas they would ever had come up alone.

    My kid has always been very vulnerable to stupid ideas and it has certainly helped him to do less stupid stuff, when he has understood that he is even more vulnerable to this kind of group dynamic than most and started to hang out more with the more mature and less likely to get those stupid ideas, friends. Best new friends he has gained in recent years are both almost ten years his senior, other is a journalist and another is a pro coach in different sport than Ache's. I of course don't really get, why they like to hang out with Ache, but choosing to spend time with them (and people like them) more than his same age, also vulnerable to idiotic ideas, friends have certainly lessen the amount of certain type of stupid stunts also for Ache.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
  17. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Lil, we all have different points of view based on our own experiences. We always tell new members to take what advice works for you and ignore the rest. Bottom line . . . you have to do what will let you and Jabber sleep at night. Everyone reaches the point where we stop helping our difficult children at different points in the journey. There is never one right answer.

    ~Kathy
     
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  18. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Lil, I was speaking about MY response to my son's ( I have a 35 year old difficult child as well as an 18 year old) years of lying. It gets real old after awhile. My tolerance or lack there of has been shaped by years of this horse puckey.
     
  19. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Exactly. He's certainly no innocent. We've learned that over the years. But we've also come to understand that he's been hanging out with difficult child's his whole adolescence, from about 15. We saw them as "unfortunate kids" who were "good kids in bad situations". Most of his friends had some kind of record as he got older.
     
  20. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    At least with the coach, I would imagine he has seen other kids on the same road and sees a possibility of helping someone out.

    Yes, if you get a bunch of young males together of dubious intelligence and or morals it doesnt take too long to reach critical mass and have a Stupidity Singularity form!

    At this point, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt whats going on at least on the surface. We know he lies, cheats, and steals. We're just trying decide how much to help and for how long. No matter how bad this all gets, no matter what he does, it doesnt change the fact that he is our son.