We just kicked him out.

Lil

Well-Known Member
Yes, Jabber is right on when he says he's always had anger management issues. The tantrums started at age 3 and pretty much never stopped - ever. I took him to a child psychiatrist for a while when he was 4 or 5. He had trouble "shifting gears" moving from one thing to another. I had to get him a watch at age 3 so he could see what time I'd be there to get him from daycare. He had a total tantrum once because he colored outside the lines. He got better over the years, but still would have melt downs that would just astound us. The tantrums, anger, moods, this isn't new. I started saying when he was about 7 that he was like a hormonal teenage girl.

I would say our son has an addictive personality. He's very obsessive. I've often wondered about Aspergers or some other borderline autistic spectrum disorder.

Believe me, the first time we caught him with the synthetic pot, I did my research.
 

PennyFromTheBlock

Active Member
I know my son smokes weed, and I suspect he pops pills. In talking to some of my friends/coworkers, it seems like "weed" is the new "in" thing because hey- it's better than meth, right? better than cocaine, or crack, right? /sigh.

I've gone the no contact route because right now- I need it and he needs it- he needs to finally understand that his behavior is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I've relented, forgiven, cried (which does not normally move a difficult child to feel anything)- and none of that has worked. There may come a day I can have a normal regular conversation with him that doesn't involve a rehash of what he's done (because that does no good) and only is superficial. It's not the plan I had for my children- but it is what it is. He is, point blank, a thief and a liar. Me having given birth to him doesn't mean this behavior is less deplorable. I wouldn't talk to or be around a 'friend' who was this way-

It's a hard road Lil- but you and your husband will be ok. Everyday gets a little easier.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
Lil, It is ok to tell him that you need some space from him. Let jabber deal with him. I don't know if you have read any of the codependence books mentioned by some of the other members. This would be a good time to read them or find a meeting.
 

HeadlightsMom

Well-Known Member
Lil -- My heart is with you. I echo others' sentiments. It is ok to tell him you want/need space. I'm new(er) in this forum, but your words are always so heartfelt and you are very sharp. You can only do so much. Sometimes space will help him or your relationship with him. But space will always help you. And you are who I'm thinking about right now... Take care....
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
I don't know if you have read any of the codependence books mentioned by some of the other members. This would be a good time to read them or find a meeting.

We actually have a group that meets at our church twice a week. There are several problems with me handling him. First is the fact that he ALWAYS calls his mom. Thats the reason he waited until he knew I would be gone to call last night. Second, I believe we need to show him that we are as one on these decisions. If I take over and tell him no, he will convince himself that I'm just bullying his mom into agreeing with me and call her at work. He has done this before. Finally, I dont want my son to hate me. Thats why I feel so strongly about the unified front. The main reason I didnt have him arrested was his mom just couldnt take it but the fact of the matter is that in the back of my mind I was also worried that it would make him hate me. Granted, if Lil hadnt been freaked out by the thought I probably would have went through with it. It just hit me....how sad is it that the best honest emotional response I can hope for from my son isnt love, but just something better than hate.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Let jabber deal with him.

No, I couldn't do that, for all the reasons Jabber said. I'm the one who actually said, "Pack your bags." It had to be me. I've always been the easy touch, the one that would forgive him, the one that would give him money, the one that was willing to let him keep his car and to give him chance after chance.

I don't have any choice but to be the one to say "Done" if there's to be any chance of peace. Jabber's right. If I don't, he'll just call me and call me and I'll never hear the end of it...and he'll think I'm "siding" with his dad, instead of being united.

how sad is it that the best honest emotional response I can hope for from my son isnt love, but just something better than hate

Oh Honey! It's weird doing this on-line, but we're both at work. :( After all the times you've reassured me he loves me, when I've said I didn't believe it, I guess it's my turn. But, I'm not at all sure he loves either one of us..at least not like a son should love his parents. Maybe it's just selfishness, he cares so much about having what he wants that he doesn't care that what he is doing hurts other people? I just don't know.

So...right now I'm still thinking the shelter is his best bet. Their website says:

****is a 40-bed shelter for homeless men, women and families with children. In fact, it is the only shelter in our area where parents and their children, along with single men and women can live and work to overcome their homelessness.
****provide residents:



    • 3 meals daily
    • Safe environment
    • Bed and linens
    • Shower and laundry facilities
    • Toiletries
    • Clothing
    • Individualized case management
    • Referral services
    • Transportation (limited)
    • Life skill classes
    • Caring, professional staff
    • Spiritual counseling upon request
While that last one won't have any interest to him since he claims to be an atheist, but he'd have a place to stay, eat, bathe, he could get a job and save his money. I'm pretty darn sure they have a zero tolerance drug policy. So if he won't go, we'll know why.
 

dstc_99

Well-Known Member
Lil,
I would ask difficult child to wait until you and Jabber are also ready to talk. Let him know that as soon as you and Jabber are ready to talk you will let him know. But that for right now you just don't feel emotionally ready to handle it. You need time.

I might also tell him that if he feels the need to communicate immediately he can write you a letter or send you an email. That way you can read it when you and Jabber are together and strong. Let him know that you won't read them until you are ready but that he is free to write them anytime he wants.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
And, Lil, sometimes Shelters have waiting lists, all the ones near me do, and it could take awhile, if that is the route he is taking, he may want to call to make sure they have room now.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
And, Lil, sometimes Shelters have waiting lists, all the ones near me do, and it could take awhile, if that is the route he is taking, he may want to call to make sure they have room now.

Actually, I called last night after he called me. The shelter has openings and all he needs is an ID (which he has) a Social Security Card (which he should have, but if he doesn't I'd take off work to take him to get a copy) and be able to pass a background check (which he can - he's never even had a traffic ticket). So he can get in. If he doesn't, it's because he doesn't want to.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Yes, I've been much calmer since I checked. He cannot come home. It's been less than a week! If it was a month, maybe, and only maybe, I'd think about it. But he has another option and he can take that or leave it. I did text him a few minutes ago, gave him his counselor's phone number (since he did the "I have no one else I can talk to but you" thing last night) and asked if he had his SS card...and told him NOT to call me, just answer the question. He says he has it with him. So there is nothing stopping him from getting into the shelter.

Jabber and I are meeting with our pastor tonight. We may have to think about the CODA meeting. They meet every Thursday at our church, so it's not like we don't know where and when.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Lil, when I was going through this stuff with my daughter I attended 2 CODA meetings per week, I was in an intensive Codependency course that had a parent group once a week and a therapist appointment about every 3 weeks. I attended NAMI courses, talked to the Social workers there, talked to Dr's, put myself in supportive environments almost every single day. Plus I went to an acupuncturist for stress, had massages, put an enormous effort into taking care of me.

I look back on that and think I couldn't have done it without that level of support, it was just too hard. I always advocate getting as much support as you can. If it takes a village to raise a child, relative to that, it takes a country to let go. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, so I know how you feel.

You both are doing great, you're doing all the right things...............and I know it still feels bad. But, just so you know, we humans get used to everything, you will even get used to this. I am in a pretty good place now and really, my daughter's life is very similar to what it was 3 years ago. But now my boundaries are intact and she keeps me out of the drama. That may be as good as it gets with our kids.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Oh Honey! It's weird doing this on-line, but we're both at work. After all the times you've reassured me he loves me, when I've said I didn't believe it, I guess it's my turn.

Sorry Honey, I was just in a really rough mood this morning and as I was typing that post that thought just kinda hit me between the eyes.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Maybe you don't fit, only you can decide.

For me, it just helped to be in the group, it made sense to me, but clearly, I likely have or have had most of the traits!! I often went though, just to get relief from the pain, to be in a group, to feel the energy of the group, I didn't care if I fit or not. But I have been going to support groups for 30 years, I'm a groupie! In fact, I start a new one this Thursday lead by a woman psychologist for older women in transition. Yikes. I'm so there!
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Maybe you don't fit, only you can decide.
For me, it just helped to be in the group, it made sense to me, but clearly, I likely have or have had most of the traits!! I often went though, just to get relief from the pain, to be in a group, to feel the energy of the group, I didn't care if I fit or not. But I have been going to support groups for 30 years, I'm a groupie! In fact, I start a new one this Thursday lead by a woman psychologist for older women in transition. Yikes. I'm so there!

So you're support group co-dependant?!?!

And yes, we both fit a few but he fits a ton. But it wouldnt hurt to go to a meeting or two just to see whats up.
 

in a daze

Well-Known Member
I just want to mention to Jabber that he's not alone in that my husband gets the cold shoulder from our kid because he was the one who refused to enable him while he was living with us. I was the one he manipulated when he wanted more money, or the car, etc. So the boundary setting had to come from me...it was only then that difficult child knew we were serious about no more money, no living with us, etc.

It's sad when husband sends him lots of supportive texts and all he gets in return are short, terse replies, if he responds at all. I really feel bad for him. He really would like to have a relationship with his son.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Well, that was unpleasant to say the least. After a long talk with our pastor, in which he agreed that the shelter was probably a good solution, he called to make sure they still have beds and then Jabber and I called our son.

We told him coming home was not an option. We really are not ready to even talk to him. We told him about the shelter. He was less than excited, but in the end I think he'll go tomorrow. It's going to get cold, so I hope he doesn't call too late. He didn't want to tonight, I think it was just a bit much. But he hates where he is and can only stay there a couple days anyway. We told him the shelter will help him get on his feet. They apparently have a 90 day program, where people can stay while they work and get themselves on their feet. He is a bit far from the main part of town right now. He'd have a hour or so walk to find work. (Of course, in his world it's a 2 hour walk...but it really is quite a way.) He doesn't want to go to the shelter, but it's his only choice. He actually called the shelter himself and talked to them...I think he mostly wanted to know if he would be like in a barracks or a room or what. It's kind of odd that they told the pastor they had two "rooms" and that it was a long term shelter. Our son said they told him they had two upper bunks and a lower and if he came tonight it should be before 9 or to come tomorrow. I guess we'll figure it out.

He, of course, didn't want to talk about what he did. He just wanted to talk about how for the last couple months, he was getting better. How he was really trying to change and be a better person. But it doesn't change what he did. Just because he did it before he "got better" doesn't change that. We told him we love him, but we just don't trust him. That we've given him chance after chance and clearly what we were doing wasn't working. He says he misses us. That he was just starting to do things right and get better. He says he needs us. We told him he still has US, he just doesn't have our house.

Boy he's good at making me feel like dirt.

He was actually on the phone to his counselor when we called...so that's something I guess. He's going to set up a group session next week with us. I'm not sure how I feel about that. But we said we'd go.

I'm so tired. I'm afraid we're doing this wrong. He really was doing better, I know he was. I just don't know what else to do.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Lil....gently, I tell you our grown kids cycle and often do better for a while after they do something illegal and get called in on it. Round two. Or three. Or a hundred.

As long as he is smoking spice and doing other drugs possibly, he wont' do better in the long run and the shelters will forbid him from smoking weed or spice while he is there which is why many of our grown kids refuse shelters and would rather live on the streets. They also have rules in shelters that our grown kids need to follow, often including a curfew and a code of behavior. I volunteered at a homeless shelter. The people were treated well and dinner was delicious, cooked by church ladies, but the clients slept on mattresses with blankets. We didn't have beds. Still, if somebody needed to talk, a volunteer was always there to talk. They were not allowed to go out at night and come back in though. You came in and stayed in. We served breakfast and sent them out with bag lunches, but they had to leave at seven. Many went to the library or laundromats...24 hour places in the cold. Many didn't mind the cold and didn't try to get out of it.

The majority were vague about their backgrounds. Most did allude to drug use and being kicked out of relatives and friends homes...this was sort of their last straw. We set up work and therapy appointments for t hem. Social workers would help them get welfare and food stamps and a medical card. The majority never showed up to appointments. But some did. Your son can get better even now, without living at home (sometimes that is a hindrance). Help is in the community, but he has to take advantage of it and one thing he needs to change is the constant drug use. Most jobs do drug test. Spice doesn't show up, but it would affect performance. Pot...well, you know it shows up.

Maybe your son can find out about a rehab. To me, that would be the most significant change your son needs to make in order to function in this world. Some people smoke weed every day and can function. Some alcoholics can function too. Your son is not one of those people. It is impacting the good values he obviously was taught and is seriously imploding his ambition and morality. The drugs are his enemy, but he has to see it.

If it were my kid, I'd be looking for a rehab and give him the address and phone number. I did that for my daughter, but she ended up leaving the state with her brother and quitting on her own. She saw how drugs were affecting her life in a bad way. She didn't want to be that person anymore. Your son can make the same choice she made. He doesn't have to hang onto the idea that chronic pot use and spice are harmless to him. They obviously aren't.

Hugs to both of you and I hope things go well at the counseling session. Of course, this is just my own opinion. Take it for the .02 it is worth. I care about all of you and just want your lives to get better.
 
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