Advise Please From Wise Parents

[Albatross]

Oy, what a day...

That has never happened long with us, because our Difficult Child always found another enabler. There is some evidence that my parents are ready to stop helping Difficult Child, so husband and I may well be faced with a similar scenario before long. (Best for Difficult Child, but it is bound to be brutal, as it sounds for you right now).

SS, I am glad to hear that your parents might be starting to see the light but sorry that the fallout might be headed your way.

I know just what you mean about finding another enabler. Here is what happened today.

Difficult Child is "stranded" (his word, not ours) in a small town in the Midwest.

After a morning and most of an afternoon of mean and hateful remarks, guilt trips, pity plays and name-calling (all of which I ignored), I got an apology of sorts.

Apparently some kind soul in this small town has given him the money for a bus ticket to where he claims he wants to go.

Unbelievable.

If we taught him nothing else, we taught him good manners. He presents himself well and is very convincing. I have seen this sort of thing before. Who am I kidding? I have DONE this kind of thing before.

I am sure they meant well, but I am not sure it is really helping.

In fact, I know it is not really helping, because tonight on FB he posted that someone had given him money for a bus ticket and he had enough of his own money to get high, and the drugs were kicking in just in time for departure.

This is the kind of thing that makes me not want to have any contact with him for a really, really long time.

I am sending big big hugs and wishes for us both to find the strength. It is because we have absolutely no control over any of it.

Leafy, with all you have going on today, you are posting here and helping others

By living our lives out of the chasm, this void, this pit, we are examples to our d cs that they are worth it too. That they can climb up and out.

Thank you, Leafy. Today I doubt that the examples we set even register on the radar of these difficult ones, but I have faith that one day they will. In the meantime, we set our own example, for our own peace of mind.

I too find it weird that your son was on FB, even had $20 on him, he got robbed but they left him a twenty?..How to know the truth? Our truth is that it doesn't matter, true or not, we have to respond the same way for their good and our own.

Ready, I really don't think he was robbed. When he was angry at me for being "stranded" he told me he was going to pull a "McCandless" and I would never know whether he was dead or alive. Chris McCandless was a young man who burned his money and his ID and hit the road (and ultimately starved to death in Alaska). My guess is, Difficult Child threw his wallet and Obama phone out in a fit of pique, then realized that was a really stupid thing to do and wanted us to fix it. The $20 he told the deputy he earned from working odd jobs. Perhaps that is true. Apparently he had even more money hidden somewhere (see above).

And I agree, in the midst of their crazy-making, sometimes we can only make our own truth.

Easy way to verify that is, if you remember the officer's name, to call that PD and ask to be put in touch with that officer.

Jabber, I did verify that the number was legit. And you are right about the phone. Apparently he has a 2nd phone with no service, and that is how he is communicating thru FB.

(I'm sure they heard it at 2am at my house after we had to call them to remove drunk/drugged angry, violent son) I sat on front step crying, telling officer how sorry I was as they wrestled him to ground to handcuff and take to 72 hr detention-awful to experience in every respect and all I could do was wonder how in the world we ended up there?

I am so sorry for this, Ready.

I have had so many interactions with compassionate law enforcement people where I stood/sat and sobbed while they tried to deal with Difficult Child, often putting him in handcuffs right there and putting him in the patrol car.

And this, COM. How gut-wrenching for both of you.

I am sitting here empathizing so very much. It brings my whole story back up to me.

I am sorry for this too, COM. Thank you for your kind words.

My son has to know that a relationship with his family is based on the fact that he meet certain conditions. That is where we are right now.

RN, I think I am at this point too. husband is not. We have much to discuss. When Difficult Child shows up at the door, there is only one door! We must come to an agreement on how to handle him.

Thank you again for your thoughtful responses.

 

[Lil]

In fact, I know it is not really helping, because tonight on FB he posted that someone had given him money for a bus ticket and he had enough of his own money to get high, and the drugs were kicking in just in time for departure.

Oh Alb, what a gut-wrenching thing to read. I'm so sorry.

 

[RN0441]

Albatross

Very sad to hear he used the money to get high. But he isn't ready to change yet. Even though he has suffered so much.

Hard to understand that isn't it? Hard for me with my son also. Only they can drive the change. I just hope my son stays alive long enough to get there. I'm sure that is a fear we all have.

My son is sober now because he has no other choice really if he wants a bed and a roof. My husband will visit him for his birthday in late August IF all goes smoothly from now until then. He is in IOP and then sober living. It's like we're forcing it right now. I don't like it but I'll take it.

I am getting so much better at detaching. That is what you need to do also. There is no other choice really. I've made myself so sick for so long over all of this. It doesn't even seem like my life at times.

We went to a party this weekend with old neighbors and everyone asked about J and if he still has red hair. Yes, yes he does. He is in Florida now. That's all I say. Of course my close friends know the truth. So many don't know the internal pain of it all. You can't tell by looking at me. I so seem to have it all together on the outside.

 

[Albatross]

Thank you, RN and Lil.

More hateful messages through FB continued until early yesterday morning, when he apparently boarded the bus.

When hubs started to tell his brother about the messages, brother cut him off and screamed, "Why haven't you just blocked him?!?"

Good question.

It seems like the only time I want to maintain any contact at all is when I first wake up, when I wonder if he is all right and wonder what kind of mother could ignore a son who has so many problems.

Then I start mentally regurgitating the same litany of his past actions in my head and I am back to just wanting to say "no mas," at least for awhile.

Hubs is not at this point, not even close. It seems like the more people tell him he needs to detach, the more firmly he grabs on.

I hate that this is coming between us. Even when Difficult Child is 1500 miles away, he is driving us apart.

We have an appointment with a counselor. I am hoping we can find a resolution.

 

[RN0441]

I remember years ago a good friend of mine was having horrible problems with her daughter. No drugs but she had some type of chemical imbalance. Was having visions of blood running down the wall and crazy stuff. She actually came after her mother with a knife.

At the time the doctors told my friend that when someone is experiencing some type of psychotic episode (I'd throw addiction in there too) that they want to harm the person they love the most. I always think of that with my own son. Albatross maybe that is what is going on with you too.

My husband had a hard time accepting our son's addiction and sometimes I think still struggles with it. Is that what is going on with your husband? If you don't accept it, you can't really get to the detachment part I'd think.

By the way my friend's daughter went on to Berkeley and is now happily married. You'd NEVER know she had any type of problem.

 

[New Leaf]

When hubs started to tell his brother about the messages, brother cut him off and screamed, "Why haven't you just blocked him?!?"

I was thinking the same thing Albie. It is so difficult to read or hear the hatefulness that comes from the heart of addiction and/or the mental issues that coincide. Hurtful things that wrench our hearts. It is the illness driving the bus. That reality doesn't make it any easier.

It seems like the only time I want to maintain any contact at all is when I first wake up, when I wonder if he is all right and wonder what kind of mother could ignore a son who has so many problems.

The morning, a new day, a yearning for a fresh start, yet those many emotions attached to facing this just linger and pervade our thoughts, even at first light. It is when I must repeat that mantra,
"They are out there finding their way." Then I had to add, "In their own way."

They are adults, and no matter what we do or say, they will still do it their own way, in their own time.

What kind of mother would ignore their son, daughter, who has so many problems?

The kind of mother who has loved and still loves their adult child completely with heart and soul.

The kind of mother who has tried so many times to help to the detriment of herself and her home, her own peace and safety at stake.

The kind of mother who after so many countless times and heart wrenching drama filled, chaotic and downright dangerous episodes realized the only only solution is to step back and set her adult child on his/her way.

The kind of mothers that realize that no matter what we do or say, they will do it their own way.

That is strength Albie.
That is self respect.
That is a mother who loves her child enough to be able to say NO!
Love does say no.
No!
Disrespect, lying, theft, destruction of home, property, my heart, is unacceptable.

We ignore our ill/addicted adult children because their actions around us are reprehensible.
We are forced by their choices to change our way of thinking, of doing, of being.
Nothing changes, if nothing changes.
When they do not change, we must.

Rather the question,
"What kind of mother allows her adult child to abuse, use and mistreat her? To disrespect himself and his own mother, in her home?

Then I start mentally regurgitating the same litany of his past actions in my head and I am back to just wanting to say "no mas," at least for awhile.

No mas, NO MORE!
Unacceptable.
We are the first people they look to.
The first they come to.
When we say no more, they have to take a better look at themselves.

Hubs is not at this point, not even close. It seems like the more people tell him he needs to detach, the more firmly he grabs on

It is a difficult thing to be at two different points of the cross roads. This I know.

I hate that this is coming between us. Even when Difficult Child is 1500 miles away, he is driving us apart.

I am sorry Albie, it is a double edged thing to suffer. How well I know this, as Hubs was insistent on "helping" Rain. It sickened me as I could see her using his love for her. There was nothing I could do to make him see, he had to come to that point on his own terms. It did drive us apart, and she continued to sledge hammer that wedge between us. She did not act menacingly to me in his presence. Only when he was not around. He did not see the full affect of rage and blame that she unleashed.The look of hate and disgust in her eyes. She would not approach her father the same way she approached me.
This is calculated manipulation and triangulation. Both parents are targeted. It is the most heinous part of illness/addiction, that an adult child would try to drive their parents apart, to get what he/she wants.

We have an appointment with a counselor. I am hoping we can find a resolution.

I am glad you both will see a counselor. I pray for this counselor to have wisdom and give good guidance.
It is hard enough dealing with the issues brought upon us with an adult child going off the deep end, plus deal with resulting rifts in our relationship.
My heart and prayers go out to you dear one.
As you travel this road, please know you are not alone.
We care, and we are here for you.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Albatross]

My husband had a hard time accepting our son's addiction and sometimes I think still struggles with it. Is that what is going on with your husband? If you don't accept it, you can't really get to the detachment part I'd think.

By the way my friend's daughter went on to Berkeley and is now happily married. You'd NEVER know she had any type of problem.

I am very happy to hear about your friend's daughter. What a turnaround! I have seen what happens when a patient finds the right medication for a chemical imbalance and is it a beautiful thing.

RN, yes, I think you are right. That is what is going on with hubs. He has not accepted it. Your comment got me thinking, and I realized that I have been to a counselor 3 times for guidance in dealing with Difficult Child. Then I take what I find home, and hubs and I discuss how to carry it forward. This has always seemed reasonable to me, because I am the one whose life SEEMS to be most out of kilter when Difficult Child is ramping up.

Of course, this is not true. Hubs just hides it better and thinks he has to be the rock, but it has cost him plenty. And me acting as the middle man dulls the message, A LOT.

This will be hub's first visit with a counselor about Difficult Child and his collateral damage. Perhaps we will finally cover some new ground.

********************************************************************************************************************************

Leafy, I don't know what to say. I have read and re-read your post, and printed it off to carry around with me. It made me cry, in such a good and cleansing way.

I needed to hear those things so much, my dear friend. Thank you, thank you...more than I can say. So many times I wish our hugs weren't just virtual around here.

 

[New Leaf]

So many times I wish our hugs weren't just virtual around here.

Me too, Alb, me too. Thank you for reaching out and comforting me and so many others.
You are a wonderful person Albie.
A true gem.


Leafy

 

[Lil]

It's very hard when you and your husband are at different points. Jabber and I are kind of the opposite of you Alb. He's much more ready to say, "Done! Let the chips fall where they may." I'm still trying to keep the chips from falling. By the same token, my son talks to me, (yells at me, fights with me), MUCH more often than his dad. I think this actually bothers Jabber for two reasons. #1, He hates seeing me hurt and stressed when things are bad. He hates that our son upsets me. #2, Just the same, I think he feels excluded. He's complained that our son only talks to me...but I don't think he sees why that happens. I'm free to take calls more often. He's worked in a prison and it's hard to call him. Our son is simply used to calling me and I'm mom. He's just different with me than he is with dad. But more, I'm more sympathetic. I'm easier to get to say "yes". And I'm alone with our son more. We're in a car a lot, (not looking at each other, which makes it easier to talk) because I give him rides and we do a lot of our talking then.

I digress...sorry. But it's hard for us sometimes too and I've thought often that, if Jabber and I ever have a real fight - as in shouting and such, we don't DO that, never have - it'll be about our son. There's not a doubt in my mind.

I agree on the blocking on Facebook. Double check, but I think you can still to on without being logged in and view his public posts to see if he's okay.


I wish these were real too.

 

[Childofmine]

everyone asked about J and if he still has red hair.

RN, my Difficult Child has red hair too. And a great smile.

 

[so ready to live]

Albie, I'm thinking of you/your situation today and this:

If we taught him nothing else, we taught him good manners. He presents himself well and is very convincing.

I feel exactly the same with our son, he can look people in the eye, hold the door open for a lady, use please and thank you. At times when friends who have kids our sons age tell their life stories, ie. they graduated college, transferred to a better job, married in Jamaica etc....and I think...my son has manners? That's all you got??? Once, when Difficult Child got fired (bought and chewed a couple of vicodin on the job) he waited in parking lot for owner/partner to come through. We expected trouble but man said he just looked him in the eye, shook his hand and said "I just wanted to thank you for the experience here". Such a paradox, no wonder I can't process it. I try not to forget he's still a decent human being under the substance cloud. I love the guy inside the addict. My hope of hopes is that both of our sons someday come out of hiding. Prayers.

 

[Albatross]

I agree on the blocking on Facebook. Double check, but I think you can still to on without being logged in and view his public posts to see if he's okay.


I wish these were real too.

Thank you, Lil. Virtual hugs are nice too, especially rainbow hugs!

The FB blocking turned out to be a moot point. He beat us to it.

His hateful messages continued after he got off the bus: We don't love him, no one he meets understands how we can be so cruel, we think he's a "freak show" and enjoy his suffering, etc....eventually he stopped when he got no response.

Then easy child called me yesterday morning, frantic because Difficult Child put a post on his FB page the night before: "Scrolled through all of my posts. Don't know who I am anymore." Then he sent her a FB message: "Happy belated birthday. Just consider me dead" and blocked all of his family and friends from his FB page.

I am worried about him, of course. We really have no way of knowing anything about him anymore. At least I could see that he was alive out there, because I could see the last time he was on FB.

A few days before he blocked us, he posted something like, "Hell is not knowing whether he's alive or dead." So he told us he was going to do this. That's pretty mean.

I am also so *^$#!NG angry that he dragged his sister into this. She has neither the ability nor the inclination to send him any money. It seems like maybe he did it only as another parting shot?

He can be just REALLY MEAN.

Well, at least now he truly has the opportunity to fly or not, on his own, by his own choice. He is the one who severed contact, not us. Not that it is any comfort...

I am also wondering, if his driver license and social security card were stolen, how did he take the bus? Don't commercial buses require an ID to board? Something is not right in his story. But I guess it doesn't matter now.

I try not to forget he's still a decent human being under the substance cloud. I love the guy inside the addict. My hope of hopes is that both of our sons someday come out of hiding. Prayers.

Thank you for those kind words, Ready. It is easy for me to forget that I really don't know who he is anymore. Certainly the alcohol brings out the very worst in him, so I struggle to not get consumed with anger and resentment (a battle I fear I am losing badly) and focus on detaching with LOVE and HOPE for the day when we can maybe get to know each other again.

I hope every one of us gets to see our sons and daughters come back to us, out from under whatever cloud they carry, with their sweet faces, now all grown up, turned toward the sun.

 

[mof]

I hope to..every day...some are wins, some are slow and stagnant...but the time will move regardless.

 

[Lil]

I'm so sorry Albie...but keep in mind, if he posts "public", as opposed to "friends" posts, you can still see them. If you aren't logged in, it doesn't block you. I agree, he is being very cruel and I wish there was something that would help you with this pain.

 

[Albatross]

Lil, you are a genius! That worked.Thanks!

 

[Lil]

Oh I'm glad! I kind of thought he wouldn't be thinking about his privacy settings. Facebook posts public by default, it keeps doing it unless you change it. If he were to change it to "friends" in the future, then it'll post that way every time, unless he changes it again.

 

[Copabanana]

Albatross. I have been a little bit out of it and I am sorry, I have not kept up with your thread.

M, who is not my son's father, like your husband, has the harder time detaching. Part of it for M is his ideal of family. And the kind of man he is, he strives to come as close as he can to his ideals. While I believe M feels love for my son, it is nothing like your husband feels. But I believe that your husband is like M, in that he acts from principles. Which would explain your description of him in your signature.

In your signature you describe him as a great partner in good and in bad.

Your husband could never be a fair weather friend. He would never go whichever way the wind blows. He could never be here today and gone tomorrow. Are there any cliches I have missed?

He will go to the moon and back for somebody he loves. And he loves your son. And he loves you.

How could he not find it hard to not try, and try and try yet again? This is who he is.

You write that your son is coming between the two of you. How can that be? Your husband is walking between you, trying to sustain you both.

 

[RN0441]

RN, my Difficult Child has red hair too. And a great smile.

My husband always says redheads are crazy now! LOL he's just lucky he never met my mother!! She died when I was young. She was one crazy redhead!

 

[Childofmine]

Alb I'm reading along and am so sorry for the way he is acting.

And about his sister, they will tap anybody and everybody to get what they want as you know. They don't care who it is. The addiction reigns supreme and it is fully in charge.

It is not personal.

I remember one time in a weak moment telling Difficult Child that I was going to alanon and it was really helping me deal with his behavior. Well that was a huge mistake! After that when he was really mad because I wouldn't do something he would whip out the alanon card and make all kinds of sneering remarks about me and alanon and how I thought I was doing somehow great but It was
Only making everything so much worse blah blah blah. Now blaming alanon for the bad decisions he made. So...whatever. There are no sacred cows and they will use any and ever manipulation to get what they want. That is what the blocking from FB and all of the remarks are. Trying to stimulate a response and reaction from you. That is all it is and nothing more alb.

Underneath it all, he is still the same person. The alcoholism is in charge right now sadly. I am sorry. Hugs.

 

[RN0441]

Thank you, Lil. Virtual hugs are nice too, especially rainbow hugs!

The FB blocking turned out to be a moot point. He beat us to it.

His hateful messages continued after he got off the bus: We don't love him, no one he meets understands how we can be so cruel, we think he's a "freak show" and enjoy his suffering, etc....eventually he stopped when he got no response.

Then easy child called me yesterday morning, frantic because Difficult Child put a post on his FB page the night before: "Scrolled through all of my posts. Don't know who I am anymore." Then he sent her a FB message: "Happy belated birthday. Just consider me dead" and blocked all of his family and friends from his FB page.

I am worried about him, of course. We really have no way of knowing anything about him anymore. At least I could see that he was alive out there, because I could see the last time he was on FB.

A few days before he blocked us, he posted something like, "Hell is not knowing whether he's alive or dead." So he told us he was going to do this. That's pretty mean.

I am also so *^$#!NG angry that he dragged his sister into this. She has neither the ability nor the inclination to send him any money. It seems like maybe he did it only as another parting shot?

He can be just REALLY MEAN.

Well, at least now he truly has the opportunity to fly or not, on his own, by his own choice. He is the one who severed contact, not us. Not that it is any comfort...

I am also wondering, if his driver license and social security card were stolen, how did he take the bus? Don't commercial buses require an ID to board? Something is not right in his story. But I guess it doesn't matter now.


Thank you for those kind words, Ready. It is easy for me to forget that I really don't know who he is anymore. Certainly the alcohol brings out the very worst in him, so I struggle to not get consumed with anger and resentment (a battle I fear I am losing badly) and focus on detaching with LOVE and HOPE for the day when we can maybe get to know each other again.

I hope every one of us gets to see our sons and daughters come back to us, out from under whatever cloud they carry, with their sweet faces, now all grown up, turned toward the sun.

Alb - so sorry for all the pain you are going through. Maybe your son is reaching his bottom in some way.

I have heard some say that not all addicts have to hit "rock bottom". I think my son is one that needs to though because of his personality. Maybe your son too.

Do what I do and focus on all the good in your life to get through this. That's what I do and it does help.

Hugs and prayers to you all.