Being who we are, even if FOO is different and doesn't like it

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
When was that? How long ago?

The fiancee was something like twelve or fourteen years ago. D H and I were both still working, so maybe longer. They were doing well, he started using again, and she left him. Before she did, she insisted he come home with her and tell us the truth. That was the time D H took over, I think.

Yes, I think that is true.

But we just kept believing drug use was some innocuous, secondary thing. We kept thinking there was ore to the roaring destruction of a son taking himself apart. Child of Mine posted once that addiction is a terminal disease. And I think sometimes we think the kids aren't taking it seriously. But what if they do know, and what if they cannot stop. What are those minutes and hours like.

My mother covered for my sister, when I told her how every one of them stayed quiet as mice about the husband's Hep C, when I disclosed about my son's Hep B. All of them colluded so that I would be out there hanging in the wind so they could appear pure as the driven stone. When he had been an addict and my son had only been a fetus.

So, remember my posting about my sister's actions toward my daughter when she was not thinking right after the beating and was posting away on Facebook and then, sister dropped daughter cold after milking her for every detail first so she could FB me for whatever reason she did that? And, once her thinking was better, daughter posted back and skewered sister with exquisite precision?

Your post reminds me of that time: When he had been an addict and my son had only been a fetus.

It was like that, Copa.

I love the way you phrased this with exquisite precision.

Once we can see, we cannot unsee, ever again. Now, you see who those people were that you have allowed access and been vulnerable to.

What they don't know is that now, you do see them. Now, you believe what you see. Before, you did not believe. That is not in your heart. There was nowhere to reflect their reality in your heart, so you believed it could not be true.

But it is.

And now you see.

And that changes everything.

It doesn't mean you don't love them.

That cannot be changed.

Like what they did to M in the hospital? Except M could care less.

I care. D H allowed from my family what he would never allow. And he stood it for my sake and in my name and I never once let him respond with fire and passion. He could only turn away, which is what my family wanted.

To shut him up, and to make him nothing because my mother could not dominate him and my sister could not fool him.

I just couldn't see it.

Now I do.

roar

I think it has to be to be strong. Like now she is the one who is cowering. Of course she can tell herself that I am worth :censored2: and so was my Mother. But let her. I know the truth. I do not want to cower anymore.

I think you sent it out of curiosity. If you do a normal, decent, kindly thing, what will happen. We can do all kinds of thinking like that, once we no longer fear those negative voices and use them to free up the dungeon space. Add a leaded glass window and a butler and some really good Scotch.

Then, we put our feet up near the fire (noting that our slippers are hand made, how lovely and warm and just right they feel.) Using our time wisely, we put our newspapers aside and have a look at the sisters.

Who seem hardly looming enough, these days, to cast a decent-sized shadow.

Yeah. And I end up with a stiletto in my gut.

You do. I will add those I have accumulated; we will call them stiletto heels.

Admiring the fine muscles in our calves we will wear our heels, drinking Scotch by the fire and reminiscing.

Serenity will come, wearing her new hat, and IC, and pasa, and Leafy and Feeling and Confused and all of us.

Turns out that between you and me and Serenity, Copa? We have more than enough stilettos for everyone to wear stiletto heels, even those reading along that we don't know, but wish well and strong.

Remember when the sisters seemed so scary, Copa?

It seems puzzling now, how this could have ever been so.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Remember when the sisters seemed so scary, Copa?

It seems puzzling now, how this could have ever been so.
Yesterday, I thought to myself, I could say to myself and to my sister that I am reaching out to her because that is what my mother would have wanted. Because she is vulnerable and alone. That felt good.

Until yesterday I still needed a cover story to combat whatever way she would interpret it: That I am longing for her, feeling guilty, accepting her domination and superiority.

But today I see all of "her" so-call interpretations were those I attributed to her...as my belief of what she wanted that I think about her and her children: Their superiority, their domination, their correctness and purity of intention. It was all power I gave to her. Because she wanted and needed it.

My mother always saw the truth. And loved her despite it. And felt guilty because my mother feared she was responsible for my sister's woundedness.
They were doing well, he started using again, and she left him. Before she did, she insisted he come home with her and tell us the truth.
She sounds like she was strong and worth having. I am surprised at how compliant was Dear Son. He seems in your posts so willful. And unwilling to capitulate or give ground. Good for him that he ceded. That shows capacity and the belief and desire to do what is correct for himself.
I think you sent it out of curiosity. If you do a normal, decent, kindly thing, what will happen.
Yes. An experiment. To see if I am strong enough to do a kindly thing, what will be the effect. Can I stand it? How does it feel to risk? M is very pleased for me. He does not tell me directly, but yesterday he used it as a model for his trying with his rotten sister. He said, "like you did with your sister, doing the right thing the thing you believe is correct, because that is who you are, independent of how she responds."

It is moving out of the dungeon. Some. Or transforming the dungeon into your beautiful library. I will add lots of plants and an oriental carpet and a chunky table over it with bulbous legs, well lit by a chandelier or globe pendant lights on which is piled lots of books.

So, I felt good.
We can do all kinds of thinking like that, once we no longer fear those negative voices and use them to free up the dungeon space. Add a leaded glass window and a butler and some really good Scotch.
You know I like single-malt. Very old. About the brand, I am flexible. I will share, except for when M's sister's husband and she come to take care of the animals when we are gone, they drink all of the liquor, especially, the single malt at $65 a bottle. Except I am grateful. I feel petty to even notice.
Then, we put our feet up near the fire (noting that our slippers are hand made, how lovely and warm and just right they feel.) Using our time wisely, we put our newspapers aside and have a look at the sisters.
I have a sock loom and a book to learn how to knit socks. I will knit us all slippers. (But it will take a while.) Or perhaps better, we will learn together and knit or loom for each other. Less pressure.

As I read your post, Cedar, and write my own, I have a picture of my sister in my mind's eye. She is still such a malignant presence. I would like to transform her to have a certain neutrality. Like neither this or that. Because that she looks to me to be malignant...and mean...colors my mind space, still, with malignancy when she is there. If I could feel about her, a neutrality, when she is in my mind, it would mean that I was strong enough, and felt big enough to handle with flexibility all she was and could or would do.

My mother was not afraid of her. My mother had compassion for her. Considering what my sister tried to do to my mother, I am wondering now, considering is a better word, what would have been a better way to have handled it: could my mother have confronted my sister in the reality she was...and would it have changed anything? Of course it may have for me...I might have been able to leave the dungeon. But would or could my sister have changed?

My mother did the same thing as I did--in this respect. She would be angry at how my sister treated her. But she could not believe it. Kept wanting to not believe it. And over and over again, she would bury it. Until at the end of her life, it was the overarching reality. I still feel sad for my mother that my sister did that.

It feels like one of those horrors in life that cannot be assimilated, like the Holocaust. That my sister would not speak to her mother as she died. That my mother had to go to eternity without hearing her daughter's voice. Or believing that she was so little loved by her, that it did not matter that she went to eternity, faulting her daughter.

COPA
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
In my family of origin, there is shunning. There is ridicule and a sly kind of unacknowledged power over, and isolation to establish a designated "other" and accomplish a gathering of allies. A clarification of the rules, as when my mother gave the tire rimming machine away between one day and the next to establish, so clearly, that my brother had no right to complain about the way his grands were being treated.
Although i have been through this already in these Chronicles so many times and have read you explaining it, I still love how well you explain my own family of origin...and probably most dysfunctional familys of origin. Thank you.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Yesterday, I thought to myself, I could say to myself and to my sister that I am reaching out to her because that is what my mother would have wanted. Because she is vulnerable and alone. That felt good

I think you reached out because that is what is in your heart to do, Copa. I think it could be true that we have no choice but to love them. In Nietzsche's sense of love being what comes first. We have been surprised so many times by what they say and do. The difference now is that we understand that what they did was not something we misunderstood, and it was not an error or an unacknowledged rudeness on our part that called it. This is what I think I know about vulnerable and alone according to the sisters' mindsets: Neither vulnerable nor alone exist in the sisters' mindsets, Copa. They are not like us. To us, alone means bereft. To them, alone means no one applauding. To us, vulnerable means puzzled; means willing to explore and find middle ground and address whatever it was that was wrong so we can come all together as family.

To them, vulnerable means alone, and alone means no one applauding.

And nothing more.

Maybe they cannot help how they are anymore than we can. That is why we must learn to be wise, and to be wary. Because we do love them, and that makes us vulnerable to them. And to them, love is applause, is the bright light of grandiosity; is more and more and more.

And for them, we are not enough.

And for us, they are.

So, we have to be very aware of that dynamic.

The sisters do not know us, Copa. They do not have those reflections that guide us in their hearts anymore than we have even a way to decipher the reflections in theirs.

But I think we do not get to choose who we love.

And I don't think the sisters can choose to love, at all. Not in the way we understand it.

Which doesn't mean it hurts any less.

Until yesterday I still needed a cover story to combat whatever way she would interpret it: That I am longing for her, feeling guilty, accepting her domination and superiority.

As we come more strongly through and into our own Copa, as we learn to see only through our own eyes and never through those of the abuser again, their interpretations will not concern us.

But I do think we will always love them. I think we will miss them so many times. What we need to remember is that the sisters we loved never existed.

All along, the whole time Copa, they were the sisters we see now that we are beginning to see ourselves through our own eyes.

And never again, through the eyes of the abuser, who sees through the film of the dysfunctional family dynamic and somehow, cannot see any other way.

It seems so easy to us, Copa. But I think what it is is that the sisters literally cannot see in that other way. Nothing else makes sense. Especially when I think how cheap were the things bought with my pain or with my child's...surely, no sane person would choose to see that way. There was a time when I believed it all had to do with the pain of the way we were brought up. I am not so sure at all that is what it is, anymore. There are sisters who have been raised as we have who are real sisters, one to another. The shared trauma draws them together and they love and cherish and protect.

They do not sully the sister's beautiful white belongings and return them unwashed.

But today I see all of "her" so-call interpretations were those I attributed to her...as my belief of what she wanted that I think about her and her children: Their superiority, their domination, their correctness and purity of intention. It was all power I gave to her. Because she wanted and needed it.

I see what you are saying here, Copa. It has me thinking about my sister having her children perform and perform. Here is the other thing that I see: Healthy, loving families believe each of their members is superior, is beautiful and perfect and pure. Think of the Kennedy's. Rose, lobotomized and broken because she was mentally ill and they loved her and believed in her and created something incredible, something that would never have existed had she not lived. It isn't that these families are perfect. It is that they have love in the heart of them. Contempt and hatred and terrible judgment and ostracization do not live, there in those families. Those things find no purchase in their hearts.

In our families of origin, those things do find purchase.

I don't know why.

My mother always saw the truth. And loved her despite it. And felt guilty because my mother feared she was responsible for my sister's woundedness.

And the sister took every advantage of that, Copa. From your mother, and from you, too.

She sounds like she was strong and worth having. I am surprised at how compliant was Dear Son. He seems in your posts so willful. And unwilling to capitulate or give ground. Good for him that he ceded. That shows capacity and the belief and desire to do what is correct for himself.

I am stuck in italics. Roar. She was very strong, and beautiful and gentle, Copa. I still miss her, and think of her often and wonder how she is. I love son's current person, too. She is very beautiful, and gentle and kind, and a good mother. Our son is different now than he was, then. Hardened. Meaner. Not so much joking around and those that slip through, often inappropriate. I think son will come through well...but I think it is late in the day, and so much has been lost and so many bad things have happened.



Yes. An experiment. To see if I am strong enough to do a kindly thing, what will be the effect. Can I stand it? How does it feel to risk? M is very pleased for me. He does not tell me directly, but yesterday he used it as a model for his trying with his rotten sister. He said, "like you did with your sister, doing the right thing the thing you believe is correct, because that is who you are, independent of how she responds."

It is moving out of the dungeon. Some. Or transforming the dungeon into your beautiful library. I will add lots of plants and an oriental carpet and a chunky table over it with bulbous legs, well lit by a chandelier or globe pendant lights on which is piled lots of books.

So, I felt good

I am pleased for you too, Copa.

And for me.

And I love bulbous legged tables and lots of books and a chandelier or pendant lights. In my envisionment, the carpet will be deep green though.

I am not so enamored of Oriental carpets.

We do, however, have beautiful, leaded glass French doors.

I love the idea of lots of lush, green plants, and the scent of them.

About the brand, I am flexible. I will share, except for when M's sister's husband and she come to take care of the animals when we are gone, they drink all of the liquor, especially, the single malt at $65 a bottle. Except I am grateful. I feel petty to even notice.

It's disrespectful.

For the sister to drink it all. Disrespectful. Perhaps she feels entitled to any fine thing that is yours, to drink it up or destroy it.


Added: I think not entitled. I think: To destroy what Copa has, all of it, and Copa too, if I can.

I think my sister is the same.


As I read your post, Cedar, and write my own, I have a picture of my sister in my mind's eye. She is still such a malignant presence. I would like to transform her to have a certain neutrality. Like neither this or that. Because that she looks to me to be malignant...and mean...colors my mind space, still, with malignancy when she is there. If I could feel about her, a neutrality, when she is in my mind, it would mean that I was strong enough, and felt big enough to handle with flexibility all she was and could or would do.

This will come as we post here, Copa. We are coming to see ourselves through our own eyes. It will not be that the sisters are smaller. It will be that we will take precedence in our hearts and lives, instead of them. We were raised protecting them.

You were beat for your sister's legitimacy in the family created.

It has not occurred to you yet that this was wrong. Not the beating, but the thing that was bought with your pain.

We are coming back from brainwashing. Even adult soldiers who know their situations going in require time to come fully back to themselves.

We were only little girls.

My mother was not afraid of her. My mother had compassion for her. Considering what my sister tried to do to my mother, I am wondering now, considering is a better word, what would have been a better way to have handled it: could my mother have confronted my sister in the reality she was...and would it have changed anything? Of course it may have for me...I might have been able to leave the dungeon. But would or could my sister have changed?

No. (Looks like I know everything again today. Good. I like it that way. :O)

No. Based on what I see between my mother and my sister, the game intensifies. I think at first they unite against one after the other sibling or husband (remember my posting about the things my mother has told my sister's daughters, and each of her husbands). Then, once the other sibs have been either excluded or forced to accept the shunning in place pattern and the mother's possessions are firmly in the sister's hands, the sister will find some justification to desert the mother.

Maybe, something as horrible as that the mother expresses love and interest in the child shunned. Or maybe, that is the mother's game. I am not sure about this part. Or anything, really. But that is what makes sense to me.

And it draws in another player and the game continues.

Step away, Copa.

I'm so sorry, but I think the situation is not going to change for either one of us. D H tells me I will need to be wary and very wise and on my toes when my mother dies.

Our sisters do not play well alone.

There must always be a villain.

How mean of me to say so, and probably I am wrong where your sister is concerned.

And maybe, even where my sister is concerned.

I have been wrong in my life.

I think it was a Wednesday.

:O)

Roar these italics are cramping my style.

I will begin another post.

Cedar





 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
My mother did the same thing as I did--in this respect. She would be angry at how my sister treated her. But she could not believe it. Kept wanting to not believe it. And over and over again, she would bury it. Until at the end of her life, it was the overarching reality. I still feel sad for my mother that my sister did that.

I feel badly, too.

How did the sisters become so powerful, I wonder.

We left of course, but still. Then too, we did not know there was a war of attrition going on. My mom did. My sister certainly did.

It's just that the things that were won were so paltry. That is why we cannot believe it. Maybe our sisters have a different way of counting coup or something.

I am still falling through layers of denial.

Yay.

It feels like one of those horrors in life that cannot be assimilated, like the Holocaust. That my sister would not speak to her mother as she died. That my mother had to go to eternity without hearing her daughter's voice. Or believing that she was so little loved by her, that it did not matter that she went to eternity, faulting her daughter.

I am sorry for the pain of it, Copa.

I wish it never happened. You were right to come home. You know what the sister intended for the mother.

You saved her, and witnessed for her, and saw her safely through.

The sister can say whatever she wants. The truth there is in the fact that she chose never to see the mother again.

That is a very cold thing. The sister will have pushed all those cold feelings, all that blame, onto you.

Do not believe her, Copa.

The sisters lie.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I think you reached out because that is what is in your heart to do, Copa.
Yes, Cedar. I think that is the saddest thing about my life, that I had to hide my loving nature, because I had learned so early how much danger it brought me.
And to them, love is applause, is the bright light of grandiosity
Yes.
And I love bulbous legged tables and lots of books and a chandelier or pendant lights. In my envisionment, the carpet will be deep green though.
In my own I want the walls green. A leaf green, with a darker green on the floor moldings so it looks like foliage and the oriental carpet, dark red. In the room in the other house that will someday be my office, I will do this. I have the carpet. I have the table. I will fill it with plants. Part of the room was a porch that was covered, so there are too ceiling heights. And the porch is windows wall to wall and beyond. I have 2 globe pendant lights. They may be too large, but I will try.

This room would be hard to rent. It has its own entrance, but you have to pass through the kitchen to reach the bathroom. It has a large closet where I will store the yarns and paints etc.
For the sister to drink it all. Disrespectful. Perhaps she feels entitled to any fine thing that is yours, to drink it up or destroy it.
Cedar, are you aware that we are talking here about M's sister, the one you like who was helping me before my back pain?

If you are, I have a certain suspicion about her. When they came and fed the dogs, there was a trinket missing. She had admired years before two little miniature irons, that I had on my pantry shelf. The little one came up missing after she was here, already a couple of years ago. It was when we went to LA to move my mother's household things here.

In my heart of hearts I fear there is envy. (And really, if I am honest, she will never really be my friend.) I do not know what to do with those thoughts. I do not want to fear and mistrust everybody.

In any event I must have a relationship with her, for M. He is suspicious of her and her husband. Suspicion is not the word. Realistic, and watchful is more apt. But he knows how to love somebody with his eyes wide open.

Many of his siblings have tried to hurt him. He loves them. But he has an attitude of "you have to be careful because you do not know what they will do." (I guess this is key.) He takes responsibility for thinking a step or two ahead. And if he can't trying to help clean up the mess so as to reintegrate the family.

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Healthy, loving families believe each of their members is superior, is beautiful and perfect and pure.
This almost makes me chuckle in a rueful kind of way.

I believe my mother loved me like this once. I want to believe this. I will try. When I was a baby. I hope so. You know I was quite premature. Almost 3 months. I like to belief that my celebrity (I was famous to a point) endowed me (to her) with a certain grandiosity that enabled her to prize me for a time. I hope so.

Something enabled me to survive. It could not have been only my father and grandmother. For me to have loved my mother so much she must have loved me (and shown me that) for at least a time.

I believe my sister loves her daughters in a way like that, but it is colored by her need to see herself and them as privileged and powerful and entitled in relation to others that are not. There is aggression here. I know I am Germany now. But there is a sense of the Aryan exclusion. An elevation as an ideal. My sister does not in her heart feel superior, I think. But she needs to feel her children are, to satisfy this unmet need. When will we ever tire of this? I am getting tired of my sister. I would rather focus on us.

COPA
 
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pasajes4

Well-Known Member
My family was afraid of me. I was not like them. I did not play by their rules. I did not know my place. I wanted better and was not afraid to work for it. I defied them. They were afraid that I would blow their cover and expose them for the drunk and vicious people that they were, so of course they had to try to destroy me.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am wondering if there is not an aspect of this with my sister. Like a variation of "the world is not big enough for both of us." But of course, my sister treats everybody badly, sooner or later. So maybe it is not this.
My family was afraid of me. I was not like them. I did not play by their rules. I did not know my place. I wanted better and was not afraid to work for it. I defied them.
I was like this too.

I think my family feared me because I was incorruptible. Not because I would blow their cover. But because next to me, they would appear to themselves as they were. Kind of amoral.
so of course they had to try to destroy me
How sad for us that we must, if we are clear-eyed put the verb destroy us in the same sentence with our family.
They were afraid that I would blow their cover and expose them
In my case, it was more, expose them to themselves. Because I would neither react nor stoop to their level.

I am sorry PASA. Did you have any relationship with them at all after your marriage?

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
How did the sisters become so powerful, I wonder.
I have always thought of my sister as weak, and so did my mother.

My sister wet her bed until she was almost an adolescent. It was terribly stigmatizing and shameful for her. I believe my mother used to shame her, for all of the extra work.

I am inserting this hear, upon re-reading the above: I remember washing the sheets of my sister's bed.

And when my sister began working, she would throw up the first couple of days, because she was so nervous.

My sister gained her power from the beginning from groveling, lying and alliances, and then betrayal. It was never won legitimately. Really, all of her life she did this. She never had any embarrassment revealing if she was held in low stead. Because she had always a reason to justify it, through denigrating those who thought of her as such. A favorite was anti-semitism, although neither her name, her face, or her loyalty went to Jewish people, culture or faith.
Yesterday, I thought to myself, I could say to myself and to my sister that I am reaching out to her because that is what my mother would have wanted. Because she is vulnerable and alone. That felt good.

Until yesterday I still needed a cover story to combat whatever way she would interpret it: That I am longing for her, feeling guilty, accepting her domination and superiority.
I am still having a hard time accepting that loving her is my motivation. Of course, it must be. After all, why would somebody matter so much who was not loved or hated. Or both.

Except it feels so naked to reach out from love to somebody who hates you and wishes to destroy you. And has always tried. This is a strength and purity which I may have, but have not come into. To love somebody that hates you and tries to destroy you, still.

But, it is this stance I took with my mother at the end. I loved her without reservation and at the very end she could accept it as enough. So maybe this will be my stance again. And I have already proven that I am strong enough and good enough.

Like you say, Cedar. We do better and more, when we can. And that is enough. It has to be, because there is no other way.
I think you reached out because that is what is in your heart to do, Copa.
Yes. What a worthy goal. To be for the rest of my life what is in my heart to do. Towards others and myself.

COPA
 
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pasajes4

Well-Known Member
I have a relationship with my brother. My mother turned her back on him when he stepped in to care for my father. I do speak to my mother on a limited basis.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I want to tell you that I am better today than yesterday, with my back. I worked some in the house today, alone. It was OK.

My old bed is in the old dog's room which I will turn into a small study/studio. I am very comfortable here. More comfortable than the old room, my hideout. We are getting comfortable sleeping in the master bedroom although I am still not enamored of the bed. It is nice to have a room that is purely for sleeping and not for living 24 hours a day. The dogs are now sleeping with us there, in their crates, Dolly's without a door. Romy needs his door. They are very happy. And I sleep better.

Things are coming along. I am grateful to you all.

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
How did the sisters become so powerful, I wonder.
They became powerful, because there was no stopping them. They needed to dominate, just to dominate. There is no rhyme or reason to it.

I will scream and roar and cry and spit in the dust and throw rocks at the wind.

And play my violin in bare feet in the moonlight, raucous and raw and very, very real.

Then have your happy hour. I will make a toast to you for your thinking powers and your brave heart bravery.
What to drink?
Something on the ROCKS!
Huh I had an image Cedar in my head that I tried to post all day, but my darn phone wouldn't let me.

A favorite Hawaiian toast is "Okole Maluna!" Literally "bottoms up".


You will play your violin in the "moon" light and I will do this


To my sister, who tried to strip me of self worth, my entire life.
I will no longer stand for your attempts to colonize my mind.
Here!
Here!
To all my sisters who have fought this fight,
and struggled to understand and know
that you were wonderful, and good and kind
and more than enough
because the jealous sisters wouldn't let you.
Here!
Here!
Now we know
Now we know better.

Okole Maluna!
clink-clink-clink-clink-clink! Cheers!

defiant leafy
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Yes, Cedar. I think that is the saddest thing about my life, that I had to hide my loving nature, because I had learned so early how much danger it brought me.

Yes. We are still learning to pierce the shells created and erected to protect us from what was. Hiding not only our loving and our anger and our pain, but our joy and our awareness of the sweetness of everything there is, from the sunrise to the feeling of lying cheek to cheek with someone we love without being aware that we are perfect or ashamed that we are not.

I will be so happy to have them out of my head, them and their negative tapes zipping along at such speed we can no longer make out the words, but only the sickening feeling of not enough.

In my own I want the walls green. A leaf green, with a darker green on the floor moldings so it looks like foliage and the oriental carpet, dark red. In the room in the other house that will someday be my office, I will do this. I have the carpet. I have the table. I will fill it with plants. Part of the room was a porch that was covered, so there are too ceiling heights. And the porch is windows wall to wall and beyond. I have 2 globe pendant lights. They may be too large, but I will try.

This room would be hard to rent. It has its own entrance, but you have to pass through the kitchen to reach the bathroom. It has a large closet where I will store the yarns and paints etc.

I love this.

Two ceiling heights; lots of huge windows and sunshine and living plants.

Maybe, you will have birds.

It's own entrance.

I would love this room.

In the Benedictine retreat center where I used to go sometimes, there is a room something like that, Copa. It is filled with living plants. One of the nuns engages in the kind of work we were posting about ~ Buddhist work ~ around the roomful of plants. Each of them thrives so beautifully, and there is never so much as a dead or wrinkled leaf anywhere.

She attends each of the plants so carefully. She seems very kind, and there is a sense of silence and competence about her.

I am no longer able to have living plants or birds or aquariums because we travel. But there was a time when I did. I wish I had known then the Buddhist concept of work. I think of it so often now, and it places me right in the center of what I am doing.

I love this room for you, Copa.

Once you are settled there, who knows what will come, next.

In any event I must have a relationship with her, for M. He is suspicious of her and her husband. Suspicion is not the word. Realistic, and watchful is more apt. But he knows how to love somebody with his eyes wide open.

Many of his siblings have tried to hurt him. He loves them. But he has an attitude of "you have to be careful because you do not know what they will do." (I guess this is key.) He takes responsibility for thinking a step or two ahead. And if he can't trying to help clean up the mess so as to reintegrate the family.

M is like me, then. I literally did not see any of what my family of origin was doing as wrong or hurtful. I was that defended.

Now, they horrify me. I love them still (and wish I did not and hope I fall out of love with them one day soon), but they seem almost reptilian to me now. I love them because I feel warm when i think of them, but now I also feel the way I would feel watching someone I love beat a puppy.

Maybe Copa, you and M will heal through this part together.

***

No, I thought we were talking about your sister, still. Whoever did it, to drink the expensive liquor tells me two things. First, that to drink it all without saying so indicates an understanding of an educated palette, and the intense disappointment that will happen when, believing and anticipating that the Scotch is there, the person whose Scotch it is learns the bottle is empty and there will be no Scotch for them, that night.

That is the nasty little kick in the gut in it.

Not so much that the Scotch was expensive, but that whoever bought it considered the expense worthwhile. The reward of it, the sweetness of savoring and anticipation turned into disappointment, that is the knife in the guts.

Another stiletto.

The difference now Copa is that we do not blame ourselves for having such expensive Scotch, or for knowing what it is enough to cherish it, or for having left it unlocked, or for the other person having taken advantage of us. We aren't weaving a web of excuses for the other guy. We are saying: "Who knew they were like that?"

And we do not allow them in our homes unsupervised. Someone who will guzzle all the expensive Scotch is not a safe person for your animals or your belongings.
In our lives, just as we duplicate the circumstances of our upbringings with our mates, so will we duplicate other hurtful relationships in order to see and then, heal, the initial wounds.

That's okay, Copa. We are learning, and seeing, and learning some more. That the sister is as she is turns out to be a valuable lesson. The blinders, just this one time, coming off gently.

Here is what I know about Scotch: Those who love it romance it. They taste the nuances and love the smell and assess the color and swear they can taste the age in it and the weather in the year it was made. I think? It smells a little like the bottom of a haybale.

Rotten.

:O)

But I have seen it savored and cherished.

Cedar

I'm sorry, Copa. There is grief in learning the sisters are not who we believed them to be. At first, we feel so stupidly blind. Then came such anger, Copa! And now, I am vacuuming, deep cleaning, remodeling.

Inside, and out.

We are doing well, then. Proceeding on course. Beautiful tall sails against the stars and the sun and the stars, again.

:O)

Oh, look. I think we are in Hawaii.

Dressed in our pirate skirts and stiletto heels.

Oh, look! There are Lil and Jabber and everyone from Monty Python.

Yesterday, the phrase that kept repeating was: "I don't want to talk to you no more." And I couldn't figure out where that was from or what it meant. and then, I remembered: That is what the French says to the English. And then, "Now go away, or I will taunt you a second time!"

So, we must be getting close to meaning it, in our healing.


Do you see my brother in the stream at the beginning, ignored while the King passes by? And it occurs to me that the animals thrown over the walls of the palace are the places we are healed; are the things they can no longer hurt or shame us with to have what they want of us.

For those who missed that thread, here is something else Lil and Jabber posted for us that I liked very much but I don't exactly know why, or how it fits into our healing, here:


So, the last thing: Even as we deconstruct the hypnotic draw of family, we are still looking at a tapestry, here. That is what I meant, when I said we will always love them, will always find them fascinating. Theses are the colors of the tapestries that are our lives. There will not come a time when we are not drawn to our people in the most compelling and mysterious ways.

That is why we need to come to grips with the meaning of things, and with the cost to us, and with the terrible cheapness of what was bought with our pain.

That is why I kept posting that I did not get the win in what they were doing. There was a win, but it was that cheap and meaningless a thing that we could not see it; could never have counted something like that a win. All that pain, all those lonely, lonely times when no one had our backs and we knew it and went forward anyway as best we knew.... Really, carrying our loneliness within us where others have the bravery and expectation of family. It seems mind boggling to me that the win was nothing more than what it appears.

Something cheap.

Like a trick. Or like one of those buzzers people wear in the palms of their hands where when you shake with them, you get a shock.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I believe my mother loved me like this once. I want to believe this. I will try. When I was a baby. I hope so. You know I was quite premature. Almost 3 months. I like to belief that my celebrity (I was famous to a point) endowed me (to her) with a certain grandiosity that enabled her to prize me for a time. I hope so.

Something enabled me to survive. It could not have been only my father and grandmother. For me to have loved my mother so much she must have loved me (and shown me that) for at least a time.

We are the firstborn, Copa.

We were and are, loved to this day with an explosive, surprising intensity our mothers hide from themselves and maybe, were or are afraid of. I think this is so. I think they don't know what to do with us. We never broke to the degree that the mothers could overlook us and rise above us and look down and see belief in them in our eyes.

We have loved and longed for and excused, but never once accepted or believed the mother's abusive words and actions and choices whre we were concerned, or where our sibs were concerned (or our animals), were correct.

That is the difference.

We bore witness in some way I cannot define. It has something to do with knowing the things that were happening were wrong. Powerless, for sure, but witnessing and seeing and knowing. That has to do with the way we twisted ourselves into believing the truth in their eyes was what was true about us while knowing, on some level, it was not true.

That difference about us is why we can heal it, if we choose to, today.

Maybe that is true.

Maybe we are unusual in this and maybe, we are not. But it cannot have been an easy thing to love the Micheal Corleone character who must have lived, even then, in our little girl (or, little boy) hearts:

My circle is small.
Loyalty matters.
Never f*** me over.

It has something to do with how it is we respond to that, now; to how we get it right away, and to how it feels right and true to us.

Especially the last line. In it, you see all the times that the hurtful things were overlooked and the one time the hurt caused an ending. There is no threat of vengeance, there.

My circle is small.

Very nice.

And we do love our mothers, Copa. Clear and strong and in a way that is not a usual thing. There are layers to it.

A continuity.

I believe my sister loves her daughters in a way like that, but it is colored by her need to see herself and them as privileged and powerful and entitled in relation to others that are not. There is aggression here. I know I am Germany now. But there is a sense of the Aryan exclusion. An elevation as an ideal. My sister does not in her heart feel superior, I think. But she needs to feel her children are, to satisfy this unmet need. When will we ever tire of this? I am getting tired of my sister. I would rather focus on us.

I think it could be that everything for the sisters is colored by...us. By what we might look like from the outside, where we might not look as messed up as we feel or as ugly as we believe. There is aggression there, I see that now. But I think our sisters do not know us and will never be able to know us because their hearts reflect differently than our own. It's something like that, I think. Something to do with not being able to see through hatred and jealousy and hurt and their own lonely times when there was no one and we weren't there either. Or maybe, didn't see them for themselves. Something, whatever it is, that left them believing a roomful of people meant something that mattered more than a ~ well, than a small circle.

Our sisters are people, too.

There is ~ yes Copa, you are right. A kind of antagonism. That is a perfect word.

It would be best for us to acknowledge this, and to stay with it I think Copa until we are healed. There will be grief, because when we realize what is lost, we will know, in a way we do not know yet, that we have lost very much.

More than we can afford to lose, probably, maybe. I don't know because I am not there yet either.

But lost they will be, those things we pretended we believed we had, knowing full well, on some level, that we never had those things, at all.

My family was afraid of me. I was not like them. I did not play by their rules. I did not know my place. I wanted better and was not afraid to work for it. I defied them. They were afraid that I would blow their cover and expose them for the drunk and vicious people that they were, so of course they had to try to destroy me.

Hi, pasa!

:O)

I never thought about my family being afraid of me or anything about me until just recently. It seems it could be true. I think you are very right pasa, and maybe, I think you are very right for us, too.

When bad things are happening, when we are doing things we should not, we would want the witness, the clear eyed, defiant witness, destroyed.

Disparaged and discounted and discredited and destroyed.

So, that would explain very many things about how and why and about how our families of origin just seem to just keep churning away, redigesting old things and trampling wounds that should not have come into being in the first place.

You are right I think pasa. That figures very much in what is happening to all of us. It seems strange to think it. To think anyone would fear me. I have that fear of vengeance thing going on but that is only pretend and I get that and am ashamed for the need of it but good for me that I handled all of it well for the most part. But there were specific words my mother spoke, specific things my mother has done, that could be taken just that way, pasa. It's a funny thing. I can understand someone hating me, fixating on and hating me, as my sister seems to have done with that picture in her bathroom and the things she has sent me as her hold on my mother intensified.

But I never once thought of anyone being afraid of me.

Maybe, the sisters (and the mothers?) see their behaviors as bravery.

I think my family feared me because I was incorruptible. Not because I would blow their cover. But because next to me, they would appear to themselves as they were. Kind of amoral.

Could it be that they are uncomfortable seeing Jacob return from his enslavement in the dungeon at the center of the town?

We are learning our enslavement can be so easily undone. Those who enslaved Jacob were very uncomfortable with Jacob, believing he would exact vengeance. This story too is coming back and coming back for me, Copa and everyone.

How sad for us that we must, if we are clear-eyed put the verb destroy us in the same sentence with our family.

It doesn't make sense, does it. Still it seems to be true. Ridiculed, allied against, gone our own ways and with no welcome upon our returns; and no quarter given and none expected.

Channeling M, we say to ourselves: "I have not left you yet."

And find there a treasure.

My sister gained her power from the beginning from groveling, lying and alliances, and then betrayal. It was never won legitimately. Really, all of her life she did this. She never had any embarrassment revealing if she was held in low stead. Because she had always a reason to justify it, through denigrating those who thought of her as such. A favorite was anti-semitism, although neither her name, her face, or her loyalty went to Jewish people, culture or faith.

In a way, this is what I was responding to when I was so focused on the way my sister's tears tore into me. But remember, we concluded that people who are really crying don't look into your eyes as their own fill with tears.

I would rather be me, alone forever, than this other way I might have been.

Which is arrogant.

I get that.

We all do what we need to, to get by.

A slippery slope.

We are walking it here, in our healing. I think we have done well; have been honest and not self-justifying. Too much.

I self justify anger.

And sometimes, even when I think I must surely be lying, it turns out I have been telling the truth the whole time.

It's just unbelievable at first, because the cost was so high and the win, so paltry a thing. But to a little girl (or boy) those things that seem paltry to us now, as adults, were death dealing, or defying, events.

We were confronting our own value and our own mortalities, with so much of it.

We have been very strong.

Maybe the sisters are as they are because all the good roles were taken.

If this is so, then we have been the fortunate ones.

I knew it would come back to compassion. I just knew it.

We must be nearly done, where the sibs are concerned.

I am inserting this hear, upon re-reading the above: I remember washing the sheets of my sister's bed.

And when my sister began working, she would throw up the first couple of days, because she was so nervous.

You were her protector, Copa. In your heart, you protect her, still.

That is why wise and wary is a healthy choice. The sisters seem to feel compelled to eradicate us by stepping into who we were for them to have validity. They have no way of knowing that however it might have looked and felt to be them, our experiences were not a starring role then, and are not who the sisters want to be, now. Here is a story. So, it was Christmas and my sister had a home and money and was going to decorate and bake and host dinners. And throughout, she would call and say: I am working so hard. No one appreciates. We did not make the cookies after all. Husband did it, alone. And on it went in that vein. When the holidays were over, it was all there to be taken down.

My sister had never done those things for herself or her family.

She was disgruntled at the amount of work and effort and thought, and found the reward not in the least satisfying. I don't know what they do, now. But in the years after that, Christmas was celebrated elsewhere. (Where the rumor was that the new husband's family did not treat Sister's daughters like part of the family. Perhaps Sister could have had the perform....)

Ha!

I delight myself with my meanness and nasty comments.

:O)

Where was I going with this.

The idea being that we are symbols of things that never were, too. The difference is that, while we love the things we protected (as did The Little Prince), our sisters were the things protected.

They do not love us.

We are pseudo-mom.

They may emulate us, but they do not love us. We are neither mother nor sister. We are artifacts of the roles all were forced to live through, in our destroyed families.

I am still having a hard time accepting that loving her is my motivation. Of course, it must be. After all, why would somebody matter so much who was not loved or hated. Or both.

Except it feels so naked to reach out from love to somebody who hates you and wishes to destroy you. And has always tried. This is a strength and purity which I may have, but have not come into. To love somebody that hates you and tries to destroy you, still

I really do think the choice is to continue sacrificing ourselves and allowing our children to be mistreated or throwing off these old belief systems. Love is multi-colored. What feels like love to us is the paramount value: to protect. But each of us has confessed that we find very little to appreciate, in the women our sisters actually turn out to be once we stop protecting them ~ not only from the mother, but from what we know.

It's a tapestry, Copa. You and she, woven into the same tapestry of family and circumstance.

That is what I mean when I say I think we do not get to choose who we love, where family is concerned. Whether we see them (which is horrific and out of balance and cacophonous) or whether we do not see them, we are family.

We have decided, once again, to break the rules and declare our freedom from their dictates.

That does not mean, I don't think, that we will ever be free of our families of origin. They are us. We are them.

I think this might be true.

To my sister, who tried to strip me of self worth, my entire life.
I will no longer stand for your attempts to colonize my mind.
Here!
Here!
To all my sisters who have fought this fight,
and struggled to understand and know
that you were wonderful, and good and kind
and more than enough
because the jealous sisters wouldn't let you.
Here!
Here!
Now we know
Now we know better.

Okole Maluna!
clink-clink-clink-clink-clink! Cheers!

defiant leafy

Ha! Leafy, we are both showing our defiant Scottish behinds this morning. That must be because our Tall Ships are nearing Hawaii, where you are.

:O)

Here is an interesting thing I saw for Lil and Jabber, if you two are reading along. I thought of you, Jabber, when I saw it.


Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I cannot write much today. I have much to do to make our new life. The two things I want to focus on are the scotch and my sister (again)
Yesterday, I thought to myself, I could say to myself and to my sister that I am reaching out to her because that is what my mother would have wanted. Because she is vulnerable and alone.
I see today that I am trying to find a place to stand, of love, that does not define myself as the weaker or more vulnerable one. Which is what I have felt my sister wanted. She wanted me at a disadvantage, to carry the shame.

I keep trying to find a way to dodge this. It seems that any reaching out to her, is still in my mind associated with her rising in capacity to pin the tail on my donkey.

Today I am thinking this: It is the right thing to do to reach out to her. Not just my mother, but I, want me to do the right thing. I do love her. She may not understand this, but she does not have anybody else in her life who will love her selflessly. I do. That is the way I love. That is why I get so angry and afraid when I feel vulnerability. There is no ulterior motive to shield me.

So the place to stand is: I love you.

(And if she thinks or writes back: The why did you not love me for 50 years? Or why did you make Mama turn against me?)

The answer is: I always loved you, Laurie. I always loved Mama. I loved you both. I love you still.

The answer can always just be love alone. Love does not need an excuse. It is the ultimate place to hide. It is always the answer. To any question.

So this will be where I will try to stand. Being here. Without qualification or defense.
I am no longer able to have living plants or birds or aquariums because we travel.
Well, that is the life I want too. We want to go East, still. M's sister loves plants. And birds for that matter.(I have a very sad story about my relationship with a baby Macaw in Guatemala. Someday I will share it. It is very, very painful. Even 11 years later.) M's sister would care for them. Except she does not drive. I would not want to bring them to her house. There is a history there. M's tools were confiscated.
Here is what I know about Scotch: Those who love it romance it. They taste the nuances and love the smell and assess the color and swear they can taste the age in it and the weather in the year it was made.
I thought you and D H drink scotch. What do you drink at Happy Hour? I love single malt, but not blended scotch. I bought a branding snifter at the thrift store to savor it. Alas my stomach does not permit me to drink. And M no longer drinks so liquor is not part of our lives together. I have liquor for those who visit and for the ceremony of it. Because I like the idea of having a bar.

In reality, I have no need for expensive scotch. It was the idea. Of quality. The library with leaded glass.

M's family drinks Tequilla or Beer. Beer, my stomach can tolerate. When M's family comes, I drink beer (Michelob or Budweiser.) Wine, no more.

I love liquor. I love the ceremony of it. Like tea.

My mother every night drank a beer. Michelob. Even when she was only drinking Ensure and not eating, she had her beer. In the late afternoon. The Western sun streaming into her kitchen.

I miss my mother.

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Today I am thinking this: It is the right thing to do to reach out to her. Not just my mother, but I, want me to do the right thing. I do love her. She may not understand this, but she does not have anybody else in her life who will love her selflessly. I do. That is the way I love. That is why I get so angry and afraid when I feel vulnerability. There is no ulterior motive to shield me.
Oh Copa, I love this. I have come to this place in my heart, aside from the derisive video yesterday, I do love my sister. I am working at coming to terms with her personality and understanding what she has been through, herself.
Putting that together and coming up with new ways to interact with her. It is work, but worth it to me, for my peace of mind. Because I do love her.

So the place to stand is: I love you.
Thank you for sharing this Copa. I feel the same way.
The answer is: I always loved you, Laurie. I always loved Mama. I loved you both. I love you still.

The answer can always just be love alone. Love does not need an excuse. It is the ultimate place to hide. It is always the answer. To any question.
You are absolutely right.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
So this will be where I will try to stand. Being here. Without qualification or defense.
Thank you Copa. It is a good thing. I will try to do the same.

It is freeing.

leafy
 
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