From bad to worse...much, much worse.

[Lil]

True story. He's lazy, entitled and basically a bum if given the choice. Even if he has NO choice, like this community service, I guarantee he's going to do the bare minimum. I suspect he's like that whether we're around or not.

I think when it comes to him doing windows unsupervised, the plan will be to see how many he does in an hour...say 4 an hour...and then we'll count how many he got done. If he says he was there 3 hours, he better have 12 windows done. That's the best I can think of.

What is your plan for if he should fail abysmally at each of ~ or at any one of, the tasks ~ the Community Service, the windows, the Job Corps?

Plans? We don't have no steenking plans!

I don't know. If he fails to complete his community service, I guess he'll have a warrant issued and either not go to Job Corps or have a warrant waiting after. (Since it's municipal, it doesn't show on the basic internet search and so Job Corps won't know about it unless he says something.) When I mentioned Job Corps to the judge he said, "Well, he can be supervised in Chicago." But he CAN'T - because they won't take him if he needs any supervision. So he can't go unless he completes it because the judge WON'T let it go. He's been told. Finish or don't go. Sure, if we're down to the wire and he has 35 hours and leaves, I'll go tell the judge..."he tried" and see what he does - but the boy may well have a warrant issued and if so it's on him. I'm a lawyer, not a miracle worker.

It has been made clear that we will not continue to pay for his cell phone although we have discussed a go phone while he is at Job Corps.

We flat TOLD him we'd get him one. We didn't put conditions on it. Other than, of course, no Job Corps, no phone.

As for failing at Job Corps? Well, they pay to get him there and if they kick him out or he quits, they pay to get him back. He's got this "internet girlfriend" in St. Louis and he says he's moving there after, so I suspect the trip "home" will end up with him just not coming any further than there. But it's on him. As much as I wish he could come home, I know he can't.

In fact, there's a two week break pretty much as soon as he settles in...in July...and he can't come home for that. We have not told him that yet, but since I asked right in front of him, "What if he doesn't want to come back? Can he just stay there?" I think he knows it.

 

[Jabberwockey]

We flat TOLD him we'd get him one. We didn't put conditions on it. Other than, of course, no Job Corps, no phone.

In all fairness, you flat told him that while we were in the car with him. We discussed it later and you made the comment about cutting off the cards if he is screwing up. But one thing at a time. He has to get his Community Service done before this even becomes an issue. Its not like we will get progress reports from Job Corps anyway so realistically, we wont know he is messing up till he tells us he is either on his way to or in St Louis.

 

[Lil]

In all fairness, you flat told him that while we were in the car with him. We discussed it later and you made the comment about cutting off the cards if he is screwing up. But one thing at a time. He has to get his Community Service done before this even becomes an issue. Its not like we will get progress reports from Job Corps anyway so realistically, we wont know he is messing up till he tells us he is either on his way to or in St Louis.

Well now to be fair, I did think at the time their stipend was more than it is and he could get his own cards after the first one or two. Truthfully, I don't remember how it happened because my brain is mush and I swear I'm getting Alzheimer's I forget so much anymore. It's very annoying to me too.

But yes, it's all academic if he screws up and doesn't go. That's all dependent on him. He has work - he has community service - he has to do both and figuring it out is up to him.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

If he fails to complete his community service, I guess he'll have a warrant issued and either not go to Job Corps or have a warrant waiting after

If you were to advise me Lil, on how to come through the next few months...what would you tell me? How would you encourage me to prepare for an outcome that may be a joyous reaffirmation of everything we had ever wanted for our children and for ourselves too, or that may be an affirmation of some other kind?

Which could mean this thing might turn out to be a long-haul sort of situation.

"If he fails to complete his community service, Jabber and I will...." "If a warrant is issued, despite having done everything we know to prevent that very thing, Jabber and I will...."

We do need to do the best we know for our falling-apart children. When they are young, so much ~ everything ~ can still be recovered. They can still commit to their educations. They can still go on to reclaim themselves and their lives.

So, we have to do what we do.

That is just the truth of the thing. For me, it is.

You see how that worked out, for us.

I sound like I am pretending to know everything. That is the nice thing about this site. I can pretend to know every. single. thing.

Nowhere else in my life is that possible.

You believe this?!?

Grrr....

***

Back when everything was still just falling apart and believe it or not, I was still in denial about that very thing (and where I was to remain, pretty firmly ensconced, until my kids hit their thirties ~ okay, okay ~ almost their forties), my D H insisted that he and I sit together, all alone in our house at 5:30 every single day. No phone. No television. No kids was not a necessary rule at that time because I could not keep either of my children at home for love nor money.

They wanted money while they lived wherever they wanted.

Nevermind about where they got a crazy idea like that, Cedar hisses.

Darn that D H.

:O)

We had a Manhattan. Olives, not cherries.

I could play music.

We will have to begin that again, because it turned out that between D H insistence and my ambiance thing, those hours became precious, anticipated, and probably saved our marriage.

Anyway, I chose Dean Martin. Something a little corny, a little cool ~ and D H is Italian, after all.

And that is what we did, and that is how our marriage survived everything that came next, good and bad.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Plans? We don't have no steenking plans!

You are so funny, Lil.

Ha!

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Truthfully, I don't remember how it happened because my brain is mush and I swear I'm getting Alzheimer's I forget so much anymore. It's very annoying to me too.

No, your brain is not mush. You are deeply distracted because someone you love ~ no qualifications and no measure of how deeply is possible ~ is in big trouble.

So says Cedar, from her temporary position of omniscience.

Did I spell that wrong? I should just put "from her temporary position of know everythingness."

Let's go with that, then.

Cedar

 

[Lil]

If he fails to complete his community service, Jabber and I will...." "If a warrant is issued, despite having done everything we know to prevent that very thing, Jabber and I will...."

If I have to finish those sentences now, I'd fill in the blanks with "not do a damn thing." Because I'm feeling strong and detached at the moment.

The moment will pass.

But I can't think any further than that right now because my brain really IS mush.

Back when everything was still just falling apart and believe it or not, I was still in denial about that very thing (and where I was to remain, pretty firmly ensconced, until my kids hit their thirties ~ okay, okay ~ almost their forties), my D H insisted that he and I sit together, all alone in our house at 5:30 every single day. No phone. No television. No kids was not a necessary rule at that time because I could not keep either of my children at home for love nor money.

You've mentioned this before. I thank you for it, because Jabber and I have talked about this. There is one thing I think we're committed on...and that's NOT letting this kill our relationship. We see too many people who let that happen.

Did I spell that wrong? "

Looked right to me.

 

[Jabberwockey]

If I have to finish those sentences now, I'd fill in the blanks with "not do a damn thing." Because I'm feeling strong and detached at the moment.

That works but I think she means what are we going to do for ourselves? Maybe?

We're working on that. Our last day at the part time is Saturday so we can start getting our house in order again. She has OP surgery which will have her at home for a few weeks and unable to do much. When she is back from that, we will start making more concrete plans although we are planning a weekend in St Louis after he leaves.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

One example. Not just one time.

Ew.

You are right.

In my mind, these events are all separate, totally unexpected things. That is how I kept my barge afloat, when I used to be Cleopatra.

What to hay was the name of that river, again?

Bet you a quarter D H would know.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

There is one thing I think we're committed on...and that's NOT letting this kill our relationship.

Oh, it did kill our relationship.

D H just refused to let it go.

I am amazed that he kept me. I mean, Dean and a Manhattan or two (olives, not cherries) only goes so far.

Did I tell you too, how important it was (and continues to be, to this day) for us to tell one another, to look into one anothers eyes and speak the words, "I'm so sorry this happened to you, and to us. You are a good man, a good father. You did not deserve for this to happen."

I had never seen my D H cry, until the night I spoke those words to him.

I mean, it was a manly kind of crying, of course.

No blubbering or escaping body fluids.

We have our standards.

***

To this day, my D H says that to me, when something bad happens.

That is how much it meant to him.

He had been very strong, for such a long time. For awhile there? It was like I couldn't even see my own D H.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

When they are young, so much ~ everything ~ can still be recovered. They can still commit to their educations. They can still go on to reclaim themselves and their lives.

This made me so sad. I fear my son won't. Whatever he did in the past, it was 77 per cent my pushing. The only things he has tried to do with his own initiative are get a medical marijuana card and get SSI (successfully). Oh, when he was 18 he saved his money to go to a foreign country to see a girl.

to look into one anothers eyes and speak the words, "I'm so sorry this happened to you, and to us. You are a good man, a good father. You did not deserve for this to happen." I had never seen my D H cry, until the night I spoke those words to him.

Thank you, Cedar. I teared up too.

How to hang on to hope? I am right there with you Lil and Jabber. The same shirking. The same theater, going through the motions, with intent only to create a show of doing something. No understanding of intent. Of responsibility.

Always an external locus of control, except for that marijuana, that free money that arrives without conditions.

How to accept that this will be his life? How to disentangle my own, emotionally, from his version of life that I little understand or accept? Where does my hope come from, if I cannot hope for him?

I get the drill...I don't want to, or still, am unable to accept it.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

We had a discussion here on the site once, about whether hope and faith were cruel things.

I don't remember what the general consensus was. For myself, I lived on believing. That is why I remained so focused on the kids. I believed with all my heart that if I could just find the wrong thing, if I could just motivate them, if only I believed in them enough, they could do it. We all could do it, and this part would only be something we had come through.

At the President's State of the Union address this year, he quoted a mother whose family had come through hard economic times. Blow after blow, right? I am taking that for my interpretation of my family now. I am taking that as a way to see us, however this all turns out.

It is helpful to me.

"We are a strong family who has come through some very hard times."

It was something like that. The way the mother described her family, I mean.

We are a strong family. We have come through hard times.

I like to think about us that way. Maybe that will help you too, Copa. Because what is true, deep down where it matters, is that these are my people.

These are my people, and I love them and me and all of us together in some way I do not have words to describe. It just is.

It requires no justification.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

I believed with all my heart that if I could just find the wrong thing, if I could just motivate them, if only I believed in them enough, they could do it. We all could do it, and this part would only be something we had come through.

Cedar, did you ever come to the point when you no longer had it in you to hold onto the belief or feeling that these children are mine, me, ours?

I seem to feel that by keeping close to my son, I am endorsing his crazy thinking and disordered behavior. From a feeling state I need to and want to reject this part of him...his crazy, lazy, aggressive, judging side. Is this right?

But my only way of rejecting this, seems to be that I reject him.

I need to find another road to walk. To be without him is intolerable and to be with him, more so.

 

[Tanya M]

Just reading along and getting caught up.

Lil, I read that you have upcoming OP surgery. I do hope it's nothing too serious and I also hope that you will be in a good space mentally with all things Difficult Child has going on.
Your body will need all it's energy to heal and stress is not condusive of that.

My son was still living at home when I was going through cancer treatments and his behavior was not good. My oncologist knew all the chaos that my son was causing and he told me I had to seperate myself from it, that I had to focus on my health. It was not easy and my husband had to deal with Difficult Child.

I just want to make sure that you will be as stress free as possible.

Jabber, I know you will be taking excellent care of her.

As for your son, it will be what it will be. I think it's good that you are nudging him along. I hope he gets the community service completed.

 

[Lil]

I read that you have upcoming OP surgery. I do hope it's nothing too serious

Thanks Tanya - of all things, I have a hernia! I didn't even know women got hernias. lol So it's not serious, but it's going to put me out of commission for at least one week, probably two.

BIG PROBLEMS! I just got a call from Job Corps. They left Difficult Child a message, but he hasn't responded. If I recall, he hasn't ever figured out how to play his messages on the phone he's using and there was a problem with him getting a new number....but anyway...

He's got a start date of MAY 26!!!

That's 11 days away!!! Considering his job and cleaning out his apartment and packing and everything, I don't see how he can POSSIBLEY get his community service done by then and I can't see the judge before next Wednesday!!!

Hells Bells as my mother used to say...what next?

They TOLD us 4-6 weeks! Probably 4 to 5. They'd had people be rushed in, but not usually they said! 4 weeks usually the minimum they said! He can't even give two weeks notice to his job!

 

[Lil]

AND ... panic for nothing. Maybe.

I called the Job Corps lady back to double check the date. She was surprised that we were told 4 weeks!

Anyway, I told her that was putting a hurt on him because of the community service and she said, "Can't he finish it here?" Every 4th week, he has "Center duty" which means he either has to work in the cafeteria or in maintenance. And since he has to do it anyway, it's no extra supervision necessary and they'll write a letter to the judge telling him he's done his work.

Now I just have to get the judge to agree to it!

 

[Tanya M]

Anyway, I told her that was putting a hurt on him because of the community service and she said, "Can't he finish it here?" Every 4th week, he has "Center duty" which means he either has to work in the cafeteria or in maintenance. And since he has to do it anyway, it's no extra supervision necessary and they'll write a letter to the judge telling him he's done his work.

Now I just have to get the judge to agree to it!

I sure hope the judge will agree. I can't see why he wouldn't.
Keeping fingers and toes crossed for you.

 

[Lil]

I suspect it won't be a problem, especially if I can tell the judge he's already done some of it...he just can't get it done.

I was actually hoping he would have more time to earn some money. But it is what it is.

 

[Tanya M]

I have a hernia! I didn't even know women got hernias. lol So it's not serious, but it's going to put me out of commission for at least one week, probably two

True, not that serious but a friend of mine (woman) had hernia surgery and did not take it easy like she was supposed to and had to go back and have it redone. Her biggest mistake was lifting things, she's pretty sure it was a bag of groceries.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take it easy so you can heal well.

 

[Echolette]

Lil,

two things: REgarding the hernia...no lifting of anything over 20 pounds for 6 weeks, no bearing down, no constipation (take stool softeners if you are taking pain medication or have problems that way). Also no smoking (no coughing).

second, why are you calling the judge and calling job corps? can you step away and let him manage these things?

Just a thought.

Echo