Now that I kicked my 18 year old daughter out, where do I go from here?

[Copabanana]

She has seen nothing but love and respect in our home.

Look at it this way: she was an innocent. What did she know of somebody who would be violent or controlling? She had experienced none of it. However hard it is to suffer at the hands of our family, it can in some, serve as a type of inoculation or teacher.

"mom if you can get me a car-please do."

I am worried about her, too. She seems to be living in a fog to some extent. I do not know if it is the pressure of having to serve two masters, but something has got to give.

She seems to lack at this point a sense of herself as a person, just wanting to comply here, and there and everywhere.

The idea that NOW you should be the one responsible for getting her a car-- if you look at it one way--she defied you, lied to you, deceived you, and is constructing a web of lies with the other parents AND THE CRAZY MAN, too....she seems to not understand the gravity of her choices, and she seems to be all around making other people responsible. She seems to be wanting on some level to continue this way she is being....to use this double life to her advantage.

After all it seems she is gaining power in a certain way. Everybody is falling all over themselves to WANT her, to WANT her to do this or that. Today there is the flavor of her doing the manipulating.

At some point she will have to be called on it. At some point she will have to begin experiencing the consequences of living this way. Sweet or not.

I hope she is using birth control. Because a baby born into this situation would be a heartbreak, unless you were willing to parent it--and I doubt if a man like you describe would ever willingly let you take the baby.

I am thinking today that we have to accept here that your daughter is NOT entirely his victim. That she is pulling strings, and manipulating--and that she is RESPONSIBLE for that piece of it. She is not responsible FOR HIS bad behavior but she is responsible for her own.

I think I might begin to act neutrally. Be available. Listen. But do not encourage her one way or another. Set firm boundaries as you have been. But let her stew in the pot she has chosen (praying a lot!)

What she did with the phone may not be a crime but it borders on one. She knew it was her father's phone service. She commandeered it. That was wrong. She is responsible.

I do not understand either her fear of his parents, being confronted by them. She seems to have no fear of you or her father. Where is all this coming from? She knows she has a home. All she has to do is come home to visit and stay.

I am wondering what more is going on. I do not necessarily believe the part about her being intimidated by them.

Whether she has deceived them, is actively lying to them, told them stories, I do not know. Could the guy be involved in stuff (and involved her) that is being concealed from the parents? Who knows?

There is something she knows about, that she is doing, which causes her fear and worry. I am beginning to think that she may be an active participant in this, and NOT ONLY his victim.

The thing is this: at some point you will have to begin making decisions about how you respond to her bad behavior and choices, above and beyond the issue of her being victimized. And the question, too, is yes there are bruises. But she is also carrying tales and she is also creating triangles, and she is doing it. Yes she could be afraid and immobilized but that does not explain ALL of the lies.

I am rethinking your decision to have her leave your house. Yes. This did it seems drive her to the guy. But really, did you have a choice? We are talking about bad behavior here by HER, too. You had to take a stand, I think. I am wondering what you should do next.

This is when it gets hard. We have no control over them. We worry about danger. Everything in us wants to keep them safe. And yet, more than anything, we represent moral authority. We model to them, right and wrong. And our acceptance of bad behavior in them, threatens to muddy their own growth as moral human beings.

Many of the parents here on this forum do not think it is their responsible to encourage good behavior of adult children, but I do. I believe this responsibility continues as long as I live. (But full disclosure-this attitude of mine leads me to be sick and stressed too much of the time.)

I think it is time to talk to your husband (even more) how to hold in your hearts what is happening. Your daughter is playing with fire, and it does not seem to be stopping. There is an element of a power play, it seems to me. That is the part that needs to be confronted. Of course this is only one person's impression and opinion. I know nobody involved. You do.

 

[Cindy Marie]

I absolutely agree with you. The lies have been horrendous and it is one big mess. I have not thought she is fully innocent in this triangle but I do feel she is afraid of him but the deeper she gets herself into this, the more my fear grows even for my husband and myself as we are standing firm about this man coming around us let alone into my humble abode.

 

[Cindy Marie]

Another day has come and gone and the more I reflect on this entire situation, some things seem to be a little more clear but still so much that I can not make out of it. Copabanana-I shared your last message with my husband last evening-I strongly agree with your message. She finally mentioned yesterday that she would just go to dinner with him. I told her that was best. Yesterday was not such a great day when she arrived to my home as I am still trying to understand why she has not come home this week. She continues to say she has not had time to get all of her belongings. I told her we can use her father's truck and get the rest of it and she quickly said "NO!!" She also said she has not had time to talk to him about the phone-as to why she is wanting to get a new one. I might not have mentioned that she has left every day this week to meet him for lunch. While she does not owe him an explanation, I told her she has had plenty of opportunity to talk to him. She said nothing to my comment. She continues going to every night to his house or rather his parent's house. She says he is sleeping by the time she arrives. In fact, she says everyone is sleeping when she gets there. Why would you go then?? Are these folks just going to allow her to stay in their home?? She apparently sleeps with one of his sisters that is in high school. Why would you interrupt this child's room for such? It is all bizarre. Even when she was home, she never went out from Monday thru Thursday. Why now?? She made one comment yesterday and said she was tired of all of the lies. I told her she has told so many that she does not know one from the other. It is just awful. This was never like her. I told her I am worried for her as she does not seem to be the little girl I had come to know anymore and that she seems that she will do whatever it takes to get her way-in other words sell her soul to the devil.

 

[BusynMember]

Although this is not always the reason our kids change so drastically, are you positive they (maybe the entire family) are not involved with drugs? If so, boyfriend and even parents may provide her with drugs.

She is not trying to disconnect from him. Its puzzling.

I am sorry. I know that there is not much you can legally do. You are doing all you can. No, she is not that sweet little girl anymore. Its such a shock ehen we realize they are adults and often it is hard to see our kids that way but we must. We have to accept that we can throw out our hands to help, but that it us up to them to grab on. Also, we usually dont know half of what is really going on. They often hide a lot.

Try to calm down and do something that sooths you today. You can not save another person, not even a much beloved child.

 

[marthacat]

This breaks my heart as I see a lot of what my daughter went through a few years ago with a terrible boyfriend. She went from a fun loving, confident girl with lots of girlfriends to a troubled, drug user with no friends. Still to this day does not have many friends. I am not sure how old your daughters boyfriend is, he sounds older, but still lives with his parents apparently. Have you thought about talking to them? I spent a lot of time thinking that my daughters BFs parents had to be as bad as he was (and his dad was actually worse) but his mom turned out to be just as concerned about the whole situation as I was. I did let her boyfriend come to our house because I wanted to keep an eye on them. We put up with a lot and our family went through hell during this time. He was abusive to her, she was abusive to us. In hindsight though I think I would have done what you are doing. She seems to be missing you and realizing that she had it good at home. Maybe being away and knowing that you are sticking to what you decided will help her make the decision that she does not want to be with him.

 

[Copabanana]

she will do whatever it takes to get her way-in other words sell her soul to the devil.

We all get the sense that she is concealing something. What? And that for her that' something is related to that house or the man, or both. That I can think of as possibilities are: having two families empowers her, she may be pregnant, drugs, or blackmail. By the latter I mean the man knows something about her involvement with him in some act, and he is controlling her that way. But of course it could be none of these things.

Here is where we get to the usefulness of this forum: at some point all of us reach the point where you are. Where we no longer have the tools to help our adult children, or do not know what these are. We do not have the tools because they are adults and they are the ones who have to have the motivation to work out their problems and free or change themselves. In your case it is complicated even more because you do not know exactly and the full extent of what the problems are. You know the symptoms but not the disease. You can point to indications in her behavior, and predispositions in her personality, but you do not know exactly why this "disease" is progressing in the way that it is, because you do not know the disease. There are no means of recovery that I can think of that lie in your hands, other than what you are doing. This is a horrible position to be in.

One of her symptoms is the lying:

She made one comment yesterday and said she was tired of all of the lies. I told her she has told so many that she does not know one from the other.

My son lies too. I think sometimes every 3rd word is a lie. MY son NEVER lied as a child. He did not lie that I am aware of until his early 20's after I kicked him out. In his case he lies for many reasons, although I have to admit he is doing so less now (maybe every 4 words).

Why does he do it? Sometimes it is to conceal a behavior that I frown on (marijuana). Sometimes it is to give the appearance of complying to something I want. In my son's case it seems all about "impression management." A couple of months ago he gave me the wrong name of a residential treatment center he was going to. A different place in a different city. I called and called and became frantic.

Why did he do this? He said he wanted me to think he was going to the "better" program. Imagine thinking you can alter your reality through words.

So this is what I think. I think your daughter for the first time in her life, is absent the structure of both your home, but more than this your personalities--the structure that you and your husband give--in yourselves as support. Every single thing has always been bounced off of you guys. Either as support or resistance.

I collect social security now. The last 6 months or so. My mother died 3.5 years ago. I fell completely apart for years. Why? Because I had not realized that my whole life had been lived in relation to my mother. Even mad at her for years and years--I still lived in relation to her. She still inhabited a large part of me. In my inner life and relationship to the world.

Your daughter is unmoored because she is now on her own, and some of this disorientation is normal. That is why so many college students go off the deep end. And this is the appeal of gangs and the military which offer strong support and routine and identification--away from parents.

So, in some sense I am normalizing what is happening. To the extent.
Because we do not know or not if there is real danger where she is, and what she is doing. With that I refer to the possibility of drugs, crime or blackmail, or the fear that she may be concealing a pregnancy for as long as she can.

Honestly, I do not know how to tell you to proceed. What I have realized myself, my son is 28, is that my health will not tolerate living in this way. I get physically ill from the contradictions, the deceit, the worry. And lately I am getting MAD. Because I belatedly realized that I am of value too. I do not deserve lies, manipulation, deceit, my stuff being taken. I do not deserve to be played. I have to take a stand for myself, too. Not just him. I was sacrificing my space, my sanity, my peace, to advocate and support him, to lead him, guide him to what is right--ignoring the effects on myself.

I realized that that was the WRONG lesson to him. I count. How can I live in such a way where I forget to take care of me? I could not.

Right now you are living your whole life almost, it seems, wondering, worrying, feeling responsible for HER. And all of her energy seems to be in resisting you or using you and your environment, according to her own needs. However sweetly. You have to it seems decide how long you want to live this way, and whether or not it is serving anybody. It took me a year to understand the real costs to me. Let alone the costs to my son.

Finally I called MYSELF on the behavior. The lies are my son's problem, not my own. He will change if and when he chooses. Not one day sooner.

Somebody earlier in the thread talked about giving your daughter the information about domestic violence services. There are also places to go for birth control information and pregnancy like Planned Parenthood. There are places to go for counseling and drug counseling. Sometimes counties have booklets where all of these agencies together are listed. I think the ball is in her court, not yours.

I might have a conversation like this: Something is going on that you are not confronting directly and I do not know what it is. I want to give you this information I gathered on services. Because you have not shared with me what is going on, I cannot know what help you need. But I suggest you get help from somebody who you are willing to talk to.

And I think I might confront her every single time she tries to put you in the middle of her triangulation and her attempts to conceal or manipulate while giving you no information or control what so ever. Like the car. That galls me.

You are living your life as a grown up woman. You are making adult choices which are contrary to the way your father and I and this family live. Because of your choices you are responsible for how you live, what you need, and how you sustain that lifestyle.

It is your decision whether or not to live as a family. We want you back. It is your decision.

 

[Cindy Marie]

Somewhereout there, Marthacat, and Copabanana-thank you for the continued support.. Copabanana-you have spoken a parable. As I read your message, I could hear my dear mother speaking. Your comment about your mother were the words spoken right out of my mouth. I was so close to my mother and oh how I miss her. Your last two messages were finely written. I feel somewhat as though I may be gaining a little more strength in this matter.
My daughter did once again come over yesterday. We did not spend so much time together but in the short time that we did, she started talking-a little. She did say that he asks her for gas money on occasion and that this was not right as he works full time and she told him she could not pay for that and now pay for a car-he told her it is called "work." Really?? I remained neutral as I listened and responded. She said his mother asked him why my daughter was wearing what appeared to be pj's as she left out their door one morning this week. She has not arrived to my home in pj's this week at all..usually a tshirt and shorts or lounge pants that perhaps could be considered as pj's to some..but I said I am sure she is watching everything you do-even what you wear and relaying this information to him. Supposedly did not think what she was wearing would be something to wear to a college class or two. She then proceeded to say he has not lived with his real father and stepmother since he graduated from high school almost 4 years ago-remember they are the ones that live not too far from us- as his real father would not put up with his "crap." I just listened in hopes she would elaborate on that statement but she did not. She said he called her yesterday while he was out supposedly shopping for clothes and that when she asked him if he was at the store over on our side of town and he responded with profanity as to why would he be over this way when there was the same store closer to him. She ask to meet him-God only knows why- and he said "Hell no." She asked me who talks like that to someone?" I said apparently he does and if you know how someone is, then you should not be surprised in his responses. She did not say anything to that.

Well the one thing that I said I would not do and the one thing some others in this forum debated about was allowing him to come to our humble abode. Well the dinner was a no go for sure and my daughter never gave up asking if they could come over this weekend. I have shared with my husband every single message in this forum and we have asked for guidance as to what should we really do in this matter- some have said maybe meet him somewhere-they would want to know who their daughter is with- some have said no- well after speaking to my husband once again-(he was formerly in the Army)he said maybe we should-my biggest fear was that if we do, she will come to expect that he can just come over anytime he pleases-and no matter how this turns out- I absolutely do not want that. He said "know your enemy before the attack." So I broke down and we allowed this man to come over-My husband asked questions about him-his family-he responded very simply-no detailed information. My husband proceeded to ask him how is he and my daughter's relationship-he merely replied-"it is going good." Our daughter was so nervous and walking around. She looked so uncomfortable. She had told me earlier in the day to not mention his parents. Well my husband did. He even told this man that we all should get together with his parents and the room filled with silence. I took my husband to the side and asked him if he thought what we were doing was the right thing. He insisted this is for our daughter and while it might not prove to be, he felt it was as we needed to be face to face with this man. As a little more time went by-this man continued sitting on our sofa staring at the tv as my daughter, husband, and myself sat at our kitchen island and laughed about old times and stories my husband experienced in the service. Now the ironic thing is the movie that was on the tv was one about domestic violence. I asked my husband who turned it to that channel. It was not me and it was not him-so it left only my daughter or this man. We still do not know which one. We continued enjoying ourselves-it was like old times-she laughed like she use to do- she always had the hardiest laugh and the most beautiful smile. That short lived moment felt so great. She once stepped away and walked back to me and said this man was mad. I asked for what. Perhaps he felt out of place?? Well shortly after that, they left. I did ask her was she coming back last night and she briskly walked closer to me and whispered not tonight. I asked why. She said she would tell me later.
No more than five minutes after she left, she texted me.." I love you. I still want to talk to you. I miss you I wanna be home with u." I responded " I miss you. Why aren't you?" She replied " I'll tell you tomorrow. U want me to come over?" I said yes and she said for lunch and continued writing that she loved me a lot and goodnight mommy.

I know I live and breath this child as most parents do. Copabanana- again you pointed out so much- I need to start living for me. This consumes me and I will continue my prayers and keep my faith that this too shall pass. I look forward to the continued support from you all as the kind words and informative words you all have written- I am finding strength from within to get through this.

 

[Copabanana]

- I am finding strength from within to get through this.

Cindy Marie, Hi.

Describe this man for me. What was your impression? What does he look like, act like? How old is he? How did he seem toward your daughter, towards you guys? Did he seem intimidated at all?

What did your husband think?

How did you feel around him?

Do you have a sense of why your daughter was uncomfortable?

Actually, your husband's wanting to "know his enemy" made sense to me. It also speaks of a great confidence in himself (appropriately) that he will be able to do what is necessary, no matter what. I mean, he seems to have no qualms or doubts that given any encroachment or misbehavior by this man, he (your husband) will handle it with dispatch. Your husband has no doubt in the world that he can defend his space and family. Oh. How I wish I had that same confidence. But M, my SO, has that same confidence. Not me.

Everything you write in this last post sounds strong and it sounds grounded. You are giving her the rope she needs to handle this and the respect and the confidence in her that she can do it, and will.

This latter thing was where I failed so miserably for so long. So frightened I did not have the confidence or the trust and belief that my son (or I) could and would do the right thing, and both of us be safe. I became paralyzed by anger which masked this fear.

I am happy for you that you see (and feel) how strong you are.

 

[DoneDad]

This sounds like a controlling/abusive situation. We've been through the same thing with our daughter when she was 19. The best advice we got was:
1. Keep lines of communication open
2. Keep yourself and your marriage strong

It's tricky because if you try to give advice or ask questions, boyfriend can twist it around to "they're trying to break us up" and isolate her more. Sounds like your night of hanging out with her was good. boyfriend obviously didn't like it. In our case they were coming over and breaking into our house so we called police (boyfriend didn't think we would do it) and had them arrested. They eventually broke up but she's had a parade of losers since then. After awhile you realize you have to get off the roller coaster by detaching.

 

[Copabanana]

if you try to give advice or ask questions, boyfriend can twist it around to "they're trying to break us up" and isolate her more

This is a good point. For all you know that is why he acted uncomfortable. Your husband's instincts were right. The man doesn't want anybody to rain on his parade. He calls the shots. Just being in your home made him feel less the "alpha male." He got jealous and insecure. What a jerk.

He may try to make your daughter "choose." Which may not be a bad thing.

What your husband did was call his bluff. The loser man felt small next to husband and in your home. Instead of his encroaching on your space (which was our fear, and perhaps his desire) leading to his gaining power, he lost power because your husband (and you) filled the space. What an absolute jerk is this man.

Look. It is back to square one. Your daughter. She will have to solve this.

I will watch for you later today. Have confidence that nobody could be doing this better.

 

[Cindy Marie]

It for sure has been a roller coaster and trying to say just the right words is not so easy. My husband and I standing strong through it all. This man did not speak unless my husband asked him questions. He sat to himself. I kept my confidence and while my husband did most of the talking, this man not once made eye contact with me and barely my husband. He looked uncomfortable and again just sat to himself the entire time. I am guessing my daughter was uncomfortable because for one we do not accept this situation and she has lied so much that she probably was scared we would ask or say something that would spark a fire. There just is no telling the number of lies she has told. How awful to live this way. This man probably truly did not want to come here but our daughter wants to come around and he went through the motions of coming. One moment she came up to me and asked me to tell him to come join us as he thought we did not want him around us. Well we don't. She is for sure going to have to untangle this web she has gotten herself in.

 

[Copabanana]

This man did not speak unless my husband asked him questions.

How old a person is he?

Honestly, it is sounding now like she is driving this car, not him.

What in the world Is she looking for? Do you think she may be pregnant? What other reason could there be?

She sounds embarrassed by him, to be leading him by the nose, not so much afraid of him. So much of what she says makes HIM responsible for misdeeds of which she was a part.

This, all of it, will come out in the wash. I hope sooner rather than later. You are doing a good job basically rooting yourself in the earth while she spins around...tiring herself out. She will soon reveal what it is, what she needs, what she seeks, what she runs from and why.

Right now is time to strengthen yourself. Easier said than done. I am aground with fear and pain and worry about my own son, I do not have a clue of what to do. We have tried every single thing we can think of.

He is ill with a life-threatening illness--and I am afraid that if I get tough with him again--he will leave where he is staying (I own the place) and he will stop taking the medication he just resumed. He went off of it for 6 years--he needs it. And just resumed, because we have been pressuring him to do constructive things for himself. I know he is placating me; that he is not motivated by self-care or maturity.

Barring external pressure and the desire to keep coming what he wants from me, he will cease to comply. Once I do not comply his medication compliance will stop. I believe he is angling for us to stop the pressure on him to do anything constructive, stop pressuring him to pay rent, and stop pressuring to stop with the marijuana. He does not want to pay rent because it interferes with his most coveted goal, his marijuana.

I am lost, about what to do.

You are doing so well. I admire you. You have grown so much in such a short time.

 

[Cindy Marie]

My prayers are with you as well. It breaks my heart to see others in pain or hear of it. Keep your faith. I admire you as well and your messages have touched my heart. This man is I believe 22 years old. One thing I have still kept track of are her monthly cycles. She is on it as we speak as she not only told me when she was here this week but changed her clothes and she is on birth control as I went with her to the doctor in December and I get notification each time her prescription is ready and when she picks it up. I can only pray she takes it religiously. This would definitely be the icing on the cake if she does not and ends up pregnant. I have no idea what on earth she could be looking for. She has text again today saying she does not know how to express herself as she does not want to be in lies. Since after all, this man is no longer a lie-to us that is- what are the lies to him-to his parents-to everyone??

 

[Copabanana]

She has text again today saying she does not know how to express herself as she does not want to be in lies. Since after all, this man is no longer a lie-to us that is- what are the lies to him-to his parents-to everyone??

How perplexing. I am lost here. I cannot even imagine what it could be.

As I say above, for you it is a waiting game. No amount of stressing and worry will change one thing. No intervention that I can think of will change things. She seems to be dealing with something that is beyond her own capacity to manage or perhaps even to understand. What that would be, who knows? What does your husband think, or is he as dumbfounded as we are?

 

[BusynMember]

This guy sounds like a boyfriend my daughter had when she used drugs. Scary. He had a shaved head and tatooes, like you see in prison shows, and he neither spoke nor made eye contact. He mumbled. He spooked me out.

After my daughter quit drugs and left town and he lost contact with her, he contacted one close, nice friend who she kep in contact with and threatened to hurt this friend if she didnt tell where Daughter was. This friend printed out his threat and took it to the cops. He didnt go to jail for the threat bit he did end up in jail.

My daughter was 18 so we couldnt legally stop her from seeing him and we tried to keep her away from him but she saw him anyway partly put of fear until we sent her out of state.

We thought our daughyer liked him more than she did. She was scared of him but would not tell us. He was a drug dealer.

Please dont make a habit of bringing this guy into your sanctuary, your home. But keep options open for Daughter. Our grown kids never tell us their entire story while it is still going on no matter how close you once were.

Hugs!!

 

[Cindy Marie]

No I do not want in or around my home. It sickens me. My husband is dumbfounded as we all seem to be. He did mention that while he wold answer the question be it a yes or no one, he could see anger within- his tone. I'm trying to enjoy my days and not control my every minute, but so much is unsettling and I am not only scared for her- living a life full of lies- but this man just doesn't seem right and it scares me when this ends. I would say if and when it ends, but I know something is bound to give..this can not possibly go on.

 

[BusynMember]

And she may well dump him as my daughter did.

Something is attaching her to him and you have no idea what. They dont tell us. But just because you dont know doesnt mean she wont get sick of it. Keep the Faith and remember that worrying until you are mentally or physically sick will not change anything. Do all you can to engage your mind in other things. Excercise also helps!

This too shall pass one way or another and you cant control the outcome. If you have a higher power, i found it comforting to ask that He/She do the worrying for me and watch over my child. Let go so you can get some peace. Please try. We are all on your side.

 

[Cindy Marie]

I know this is so unhealthy for me and my husband. As much as this worries me and consumes me, I do have faith or certainly trying to maintain it. My head is filled with the scriptures and the voice of my mother repeating them such as "Cast your burden on the Lord, and He shall sustain you; He shall never permit righteous to be moved" Psalm 55:22. "For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand, saying to you, "Fear not, I will help you." Isaiah 41:13. My mother always said if you give the devil enough rope ,he will hang himself. She also repeated Sin will destroy itself. I know the devil is for sure testing my faith and he will not win. I know worrying is not going to change one thing either and while my faith is being tested-hence- my worries that I have shared with you all-it no doubt makes it difficult for remaining relaxed and not thinking about it.

I have always loved the outdoors- flowers and gardening- and with my back issues and limited movement in my hips and legs-even before my total hip replacement- I was born with a partial hip socket- I lost a lot of muscle mass in my affected leg and can not lift it if I am sitting or lying down and it is painful to sit down as it is difficult to stand back up and now with the back issues, my other leg is almost in the same shape and of course the nerve damage in my dominant arm and hand makes it hard to hold or grip, the ruptures I have endured in my neck as well as my lumbar and surgery-2 level fusion through the front of my neck has limited mobility looking down or bending but my gait is overall fine and to see me you would not know what I have physically been through- I am only 46 years old. But I never once questioned God as I am alive and breathing and I am so grateful to be here and know my work on earth is not done. I am so blessed and thankful for all that I have. Yard work has always been my therapy but a little more challenging these days. We have a much smaller yard than our old house. My girls were looking so forward to us moving into a new house after 19 years and no more than we got our feet into the door, the problems have escalated and tried to destroy us. I was so thankful we finally moved too and my focus was decorating our new home and we virtually started over with new furnishings- a new beginning or so I thought it was and still working on that but the devil has no doubt tried to destroy our happiness as I have actually had problems with both daughters. It is like weighing the lesser of the two evils and I have felt more danger from the daughter I am referring to in this forum. Fearing the unknown keeps me in knots-so as much as it is fearing about their own souls which I know they are accountable for-what they are involved in-thinking this man is going to harm us because again he is crazy looking and mean looking is something I just can not loose sight of- We did just have a home security system installed week before last mainly because of these so called people they are involved with. I know the one person my older daughter is around had texted my daughter I am speaking of in this forum-about how she hates how she hears about me raising my voice at them-she had never met me at the time and had no idea what was going on in our home-so this was information my older daughter had told her and no telling what lies and bad things my daughter said about us - so her "friend" got a one sided story which of course leaves me as the "bad guy." Of course my daughters would dare not tell what they have caused in our home. Needless to say, my older daughter is no longer living in our house either. We live in a beautiful neighborhood-a large community, pet friendly , nature trails and with a beautiful 3 acre park-always some function going on and the food trucks and movie nights will begin soon. My girls were looking so forward to this as we were. My husband being a heart patient and unable to physically do much without loosing his breath and me with my physical issues- were so elated this moment had come after raising our daughters and them graduating from high school. We never experienced anything like this during their teenage years or remotely close. I thought we made it through the most difficult time most parents experience trouble of any kind but I suppose they were saving these moments after high school. They have done everything they can to take this new chapter in our lives away from me and my husband and our family.

One more thing I forgot to touch on that is just another piece of this unsolved puzzle is she had brought some of her belongings from the car back into her room-well the day she brought him here-this past Friday-she had run up to her room when she first arrived and had moved her few things from the dresser and bed and hid them either under the bed or in her closet. Of course she did not tell me this nor did she say why. She was apparently going to show him or give him a tour of the house as she had been wanting to show our house off as she had texted me earlier in the week. Well I did not go upstairs before they came or even after until the next morning and also she did not tour our house with him as we both informed her we did not want him walking around our home. She asked me to give him a tour and I said absolutely not. It was more than enough him even coming into our home let alone sitting on my sofa. So I learned of her belongings "disappearing" the next morning. I have yet to question her as I know she does not want him thinking or knowing when she is supposedly coming home. I just do not understand this. After all and again, if the "only" lie she was telling and hiding was this crazy man from us, why is she lying to him and everyone else and why is she not coming home as she said told she would-- apparently only to us that is?

 

[Cindy Marie]

Why are these folks allowing her to just 'live" there?" Surely not without questions. Are they waiting for the big break-something they are sitting back watching for too?? My daughter says they do not know that we were unaware of the is so called relationship and if they did, she could not stay-but my daughter would never say what it was these parents were told in order for her to stay. Surely they can not be this ignorant and not ask questions and just let my daughter sit up in there and not think something more of it if my daughter was kicked out of the house.

 

[Copabanana]

no more than we got our feet into the door, the problems have escalated and tried to destroy us.

the devil has no doubt tried to destroy our happiness

Cindy Marie. Your new home sounds lovely and just perfect in every way. It sounds so welcoming and peaceful. I love this for you.

Look. Let me tell you how I think about good and evil. Which is very similar to your own way of thinking, just in my own words.

I think a lot about "evil" and my thinking is changing.

Sometimes I hold myself responsible. I ask myself? If I were NOT evil, why would I not seem to be the center of all of these bad things that happen to me? And I try to look at myself, as having caused all this. Because that is what human beings seem to do. To make sense of things based upon their own participation. True or not.

For you to come to believe even a little that this move ushered in these problems, is to willfully deny yourself the well-deserved pleasure and self-esteem that you and your husband were able to attain such a place in your lives.

I work with a spiritual director In my own faith. And we have been talking about evil. She believes that evil is a shell, and that within evil there is always the potential to become good. In the same way, good always has in it a kernel of possibility for evil. I like this way of thinking because it keeps me responsible. I understand that there is always the opposite in each thing. This keeps me honest and going on the right track, not arrogant, believing that I am totally right about anything. I keep myself guessing, and recommitting to what is best.

Because g-d is everywhere. Even in bad things, we can find good. If we look, and commit ourselves. Every moment.

Even here. In this difficult moment.

To doubt the wonderfulness of your home, and your deservedness of it. I agree with you. This is not good, and we need to work against the temptation to take away from ourselves the good we have worked for and we deserve.

This way of thinking I see as you undermining yourself:

They have done everything they can to take this new chapter in our lives away from me and my husband and our family.

Your daughter is proud of her home and she is proud of you her mother, and her father.

This is the kind of thing that happens TO ALMOST EVERYBODY with kids that are your kids' age. Your daughter is practicing, without her training wheels. You and your husband and home are her training wheels. She is seeing who she is, on her own. She keeps watching you to see and to measure how she is doing. That is your new role here. To watch her as she struggles to find balance and direction...and to trust that she will find both.

All of the rest of us here are trying to do the same thing. We hold each others' hands as our kids careen one way or another. And we try to help each other find a way to tolerate this, to be OK, to know what to do, where to stand. So that our kids find their way. Or when our kids do not, find a way to live.

This is very, very hard for all of us, each of us.

she hears about me raising my voice at them-she had never met me at the time

This kind of betrayal most of us have suffered. I was devastated. My son did this too. This more than anything I think crushed my spirit.

I WAS WRONG. I have written this over and over again. To the extent I suffered one minute about this gossip and my son's role in it was stupid.

Your children are no longer living with you in the center of their lives. They are showing you this. They want to be autonomous and they are showing us that they can be.

But they are ambivalent. That is why they blame us and gossip about us. That is why they keep coming home and then when they do they lie to us.

While our kids are trying to become independent and to make us peripheral in their lives (at least our authority and our control--not necessarily our support, either moral or financial) we are still holding them in a central position in our own emotional lives. This is the problem. They are still the hub of the wheel around which we live. WRONG.

If I am distressed and confused about my son, I feel distressed and confused about myself and my life becomes a mess. I feel a mess and a failure. That is what comes of holding our ADULT kids as the center.

Because they are wanting to move on. We cannot keep as center people whose lives and actions are in their control. Only theirs.

This is the quandary and the WORK we do here on this forum. Taking back ourselves and our lives as our own spiritual center. And to this you speak in your post above. It truly, truly is a spiritual endeavor, I agree.

I sympathize and support you in your health challenges and those of your husband who sounds like a very, very fine man.