Littleboylost
Long road but the path ahead holds hope.
The chaos it's never ending. Do protect yourself. I am too tired to write anything more sesible then this. I just want you to know I am here and I am with you Copa.
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the ball is in his court??
- Thread starter Copabanana
- Start date
pasajes4
Well-Known Member
Copa, Our love for our children often blinds us to the truth of who our adult children are at the present time. We want them to be who they were before the drugs and all the other stuff happened. It just complicates everyones life when we keep trying to get them to go back to that time in their lives. It just is not going to happen.
I am right there with you. Sending hugs,love, and peace.
I am right there with you. Sending hugs,love, and peace.
Lil
Well-Known Member
So...I'm confused.
Was the SSI misdirected or wasn't it? Was the rent paid or wasn't it?
I can only imagine how you feel if I'm this confused.
Hang in there Copa. Be kind to yourself and maybe be a tiny bit less kind to your son? He can stand on his own two feet and really shouldn't be dumping every drama on your shoulders.
Was the SSI misdirected or wasn't it? Was the rent paid or wasn't it?
I can only imagine how you feel if I'm this confused.
Hang in there Copa. Be kind to yourself and maybe be a tiny bit less kind to your son? He can stand on his own two feet and really shouldn't be dumping every drama on your shoulders.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
thanks everbody.
i agree.
lil. i was confused about the ssi, too. if it was a moneygram why would it have to go an address?
what happened is that the debit card apparently went to the wrong address. he has the option of getting the ssi moneygramed. the extra cost, $70.
when he called it appears he was going with the negative, frustrated, easy response to bail with any obstacle. to use the mistake, the need to pay $70, as an excuse to let go of the commitment to the apartment.
because he is ambivalent about it. he felt "forced" by the friend who believed he had no choice. that to live in what is essentially a druggie car, foul, horrible--was not an option. and that my son's return to our town was no remedy. as my son hates it. and it would merely be an escape.
m's view is this: we went along with the deal because it is a chance. if anybody can inluence son, it is h, the friend. and the arrangement would force him to work. and it would be clear right away if he would work. or not.
but m's basic stance is that j come back here. he says one, j does not have money to live in one of the highest rent areas in the country. that j or anybody has to earn it--the high cost life. and m says here (near us but not with us) he can monitor and influence him. here he can eat.
something is triggered in me where i lose my mind. i go right to fall apart. panic. desperation. despair.
this is where the work needs to happen. i am too involved. it as if his emotions send a shock to my nervous system and i am rendered into extreme crisis.
the only remedy is to find a way to withstand this.
thank you all.
i agree.
lil. i was confused about the ssi, too. if it was a moneygram why would it have to go an address?
what happened is that the debit card apparently went to the wrong address. he has the option of getting the ssi moneygramed. the extra cost, $70.
when he called it appears he was going with the negative, frustrated, easy response to bail with any obstacle. to use the mistake, the need to pay $70, as an excuse to let go of the commitment to the apartment.
because he is ambivalent about it. he felt "forced" by the friend who believed he had no choice. that to live in what is essentially a druggie car, foul, horrible--was not an option. and that my son's return to our town was no remedy. as my son hates it. and it would merely be an escape.
m's view is this: we went along with the deal because it is a chance. if anybody can inluence son, it is h, the friend. and the arrangement would force him to work. and it would be clear right away if he would work. or not.
but m's basic stance is that j come back here. he says one, j does not have money to live in one of the highest rent areas in the country. that j or anybody has to earn it--the high cost life. and m says here (near us but not with us) he can monitor and influence him. here he can eat.
something is triggered in me where i lose my mind. i go right to fall apart. panic. desperation. despair.
this is where the work needs to happen. i am too involved. it as if his emotions send a shock to my nervous system and i am rendered into extreme crisis.
the only remedy is to find a way to withstand this.
thank you all.
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pasajes4
Well-Known Member
So, is he coming home? Is that really a solution? M says yes, then when son screws up, M wants him gone. He will screw up. He only wants to escape doing any real work or commitment. The key here is that he does not want to commit to anything. That will include your and M's rules.
If he comes, let M deal with ALL of it. Everytime we jump in and rescue we only hurt them and ourselves.
Copa, Some parents do the grown child living at home until the day they (parents) die. That's a choice you can make. That maybe what you heart is telling you. The only way that it would work is if you have absolutely 0 expectations for him drug wise, work wise, financially, and socially. At some point you are going to have to come to peace one way or another. We all do.
If he comes, let M deal with ALL of it. Everytime we jump in and rescue we only hurt them and ourselves.
Copa, Some parents do the grown child living at home until the day they (parents) die. That's a choice you can make. That maybe what you heart is telling you. The only way that it would work is if you have absolutely 0 expectations for him drug wise, work wise, financially, and socially. At some point you are going to have to come to peace one way or another. We all do.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
hi pasa.
no. he paid the $700 rent with his ssi money by his own choice, more or less.
by that i mean: his friend has provided a lot of support. i think he knows the jig is up with the friend, if j does not do for himself.
i am in that place now, too--except when my emotions get the best of me.
my son knows how to work. he knows how to get help.
i agree with you. as long as i have expectations of him i am setting myself up by locating my power in him.
thank you pasa.
no. he paid the $700 rent with his ssi money by his own choice, more or less.
by that i mean: his friend has provided a lot of support. i think he knows the jig is up with the friend, if j does not do for himself.
i am in that place now, too--except when my emotions get the best of me.
my son knows how to work. he knows how to get help.
i agree with you. as long as i have expectations of him i am setting myself up by locating my power in him.
thank you pasa.
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pasajes4
Well-Known Member
My expectations for my son were never met. We butt heads from age 10 on. The only way it would work for a peaceful relationship at home would be for me to treat him like the lord of the manor, and to totally abandon all of my boundaries.
I have made peace with not allowing him to destroy me. Now if he will only leave me alone.
I have made peace with not allowing him to destroy me. Now if he will only leave me alone.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
to threaten to renege on the deal, to go to the street, when he knew all the while he had another means to get the money, that is cruel. and all the while, he must have known he was going to pay the rent. what does it serve in him to put me through agony? i have to face i go there myself. that i can resist. i can stay in myself when he calls. if i learn how.
i know i have to find some way to be emotionally insulated. to not abandon myself. to tie myself to the mast.
the ball is in his court. he has an ongoing way to pay the rent. his monthly payment covers it. he has work if he is open to it. he has enough money left over to eat. he has access to all the services in the world. he has a peer group. he has friends. there is a college nearby. he could go free.
if this stabilty is worth anything to him he will maintain it. i believe it is worth it to him. the first thing he said is: mom. i'm sorry. i'm stable.
the problem is: i am not.
now it is time for me to locate myself in me. the question is, how?
thank you everybody.
i know i have to find some way to be emotionally insulated. to not abandon myself. to tie myself to the mast.
the ball is in his court. he has an ongoing way to pay the rent. his monthly payment covers it. he has work if he is open to it. he has enough money left over to eat. he has access to all the services in the world. he has a peer group. he has friends. there is a college nearby. he could go free.
if this stabilty is worth anything to him he will maintain it. i believe it is worth it to him. the first thing he said is: mom. i'm sorry. i'm stable.
the problem is: i am not.
now it is time for me to locate myself in me. the question is, how?
thank you everybody.
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pasajes4
Well-Known Member
It gives him control. He needs to control you emotionally in order to keep you jumping through hoops. He is abusing you. He hones in on your one weak spot him. Just my 2 cents, but i think he is very cruel and making you pay for whatever he thinks your part is in his illness/situation.
Step back take 1 day and turn off your phone. He will survive one day without hurting you. Then a day and a half. Take a trip to a favorite spot and just be there. I am very worried about you.
Step back take 1 day and turn off your phone. He will survive one day without hurting you. Then a day and a half. Take a trip to a favorite spot and just be there. I am very worried about you.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
i am worried about me too. thank you pasa.
my son is not responsible for my past or psychology. but he is responsible for what he does.
m has always said: the only place j has control in life is with me. it is like he says jump. and i do.
he was a loving child. there are flashes of that still.
m's mother says i have to love myself. i have to learn.
i understand i play a large part. yesterday i was researching long term psychiatric hospitals. for me. that was how bad it got.
my son is not responsible for my past or psychology. but he is responsible for what he does.
m has always said: the only place j has control in life is with me. it is like he says jump. and i do.
he was a loving child. there are flashes of that still.
m's mother says i have to love myself. i have to learn.
i understand i play a large part. yesterday i was researching long term psychiatric hospitals. for me. that was how bad it got.
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Sam3
Active Member
Hi Copa.
Life sent me some perspective. (I've been my aphasic (mute) mother's voice in the hospital for the last 72 hours). So I haven't been keeping up with the boards too closely, though I've gotten a sense of your struggles.
I'm sorry for all of this. It hurts to hear the agony in your posts and to learn that it's been so bad at times that you considered treatment for yourself.
One perspective I thought might be useful -- is his. Maybe you're doubling your pain by projecting your feelings and capacities on to his decisions?
I know your son is doing things that are torturing you. But it's not his objective.
He's unhealthy and has a low bar for just being, but he's not actively striving for a bleak future.
Maybe if you step into his careless and carefree shoes for a minute, it will help you manage your own anxiety.
In doing what they do, people just don't mean what you would mean if you were doing it.
Recently, I've tried to dial myself back to be more in sync with how people are instead of how they should be. Basically, I'm not going to try harder than my counterpart, take it more seriously, etc.
In the past, that attitude would have felt compromising in some way. But reducing the expectation gap has added to my happiness and, really, to my regard of everyone.
I guess what I'm saying is that what may seem like an utterly desperate situation requiring parental deftness, may just be Thursday to them.
Life sent me some perspective. (I've been my aphasic (mute) mother's voice in the hospital for the last 72 hours). So I haven't been keeping up with the boards too closely, though I've gotten a sense of your struggles.
I'm sorry for all of this. It hurts to hear the agony in your posts and to learn that it's been so bad at times that you considered treatment for yourself.
One perspective I thought might be useful -- is his. Maybe you're doubling your pain by projecting your feelings and capacities on to his decisions?
I know your son is doing things that are torturing you. But it's not his objective.
He's unhealthy and has a low bar for just being, but he's not actively striving for a bleak future.
Maybe if you step into his careless and carefree shoes for a minute, it will help you manage your own anxiety.
In doing what they do, people just don't mean what you would mean if you were doing it.
Recently, I've tried to dial myself back to be more in sync with how people are instead of how they should be. Basically, I'm not going to try harder than my counterpart, take it more seriously, etc.
In the past, that attitude would have felt compromising in some way. But reducing the expectation gap has added to my happiness and, really, to my regard of everyone.
I guess what I'm saying is that what may seem like an utterly desperate situation requiring parental deftness, may just be Thursday to them.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
sam thank you. first said, i agree.
how is your mother, sam?
how do you do what you describe? first the concept and then how to implement it. operationalize it.
first there is the issue of attribution.
i am ascribing intent to harm where there may be none. i can see it. and i am (with his help) inserting myself into the effect of what happens to him or could. yes. but much of my suffering is what ifs. the question is, how come?
he is like a climate denier and i am the sierra club. the former sees only a lot of storms. the latter (me) sees a million ways to take responsibility to intervene.
there is a helplessness here. that i have a way to reverse. by locating power and focus in myself and letting him do the same.
i cannot control his stance to his microclimate. yet i put myself in a situation where i am buffeted by it. in ways we all know.
i cannot sleep through the night. i have nightmares. etceteta. i ruminate over what next. especially for what comes when i die.
i know this apartment is unsustainable for him unless he decides to sustain it. but it is clearly unsustainable for me.
how is your mother, sam?
how do you do what you describe? first the concept and then how to implement it. operationalize it.
first there is the issue of attribution.
i am ascribing intent to harm where there may be none. i can see it. and i am (with his help) inserting myself into the effect of what happens to him or could. yes. but much of my suffering is what ifs. the question is, how come?
he is like a climate denier and i am the sierra club. the former sees only a lot of storms. the latter (me) sees a million ways to take responsibility to intervene.
there is a helplessness here. that i have a way to reverse. by locating power and focus in myself and letting him do the same.
i cannot control his stance to his microclimate. yet i put myself in a situation where i am buffeted by it. in ways we all know.
i cannot sleep through the night. i have nightmares. etceteta. i ruminate over what next. especially for what comes when i die.
i know this apartment is unsustainable for him unless he decides to sustain it. but it is clearly unsustainable for me.
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Sam3
Active Member
Your climate denier/sierra club analogy is so perfect.
But still, the agony and the searching. I totally get it. My support group friends reminded me recently of how filled with questions and angst I was in the early days.
Tying yourself in a knot can give you a weird sense of agency in an uncontrollable situation. It's difficult to let that go.
But "let go" was mostly what I was saying, not anything complicated.
If it's Thursday for him, it happens every week. De facto then, it's not doomsday or judgment day.
It happens every week for you too, so now, it's your Thursday.
DoneDad
Well-Known Member
Really love the concept of the “expectation gap.”
Littleboylost
Long road but the path ahead holds hope.
Copa I so wish I knew if I figure it out I promise to take you with me!
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
there is really a compulsion to the kind of attachment i feel to results in my son's life over which i have no control or right to control. that has nothing to do with anything loving. i see this.
i get how primitive it is. it hits me in the deepest pits of me. i am turned inside out.
in my own case it is not "expectations." in the sense of anything cognitive.
it is more, i think, an attachment wound in me that my son may well use to manipulate me and which has only hurt him let alone me.
there are no excuses here. just wanting to name it and claw out from under.
i get how primitive it is. it hits me in the deepest pits of me. i am turned inside out.
in my own case it is not "expectations." in the sense of anything cognitive.
it is more, i think, an attachment wound in me that my son may well use to manipulate me and which has only hurt him let alone me.
there are no excuses here. just wanting to name it and claw out from under.
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pasajes4
Well-Known Member
I can relate to everything that you express Sam/Copa. I am in self preservation mode. My son's expectations are unreasonable and self serving. They swallow the other person whole. Whether or not it is intentional or simply his Thursday, the person he targets is left depleated and shell shocked.
Ugh
Any chance he says these things to you Copa (I have to bail) because he on some level finds your reaction a positive for him?
Our daughter's ssi check is direct deposited into her checking acct and then rent is taken from there. Little left afterwards.
Like others have said be careful! Our daughter can drain the living life right out of you. If you aren't going so already, consider a therapist. This way you might be able to go extra visits during particularly tumultuous times.
Partially due to my autoimmune issues, there have been times that I largely step aside and let my husband take over. I do t know if this would work out for you though. But if you are in too much emotional pain, you might consider having M take over for at least a few days and let the chips fall where they may.
I hope he sticks with the job and so forth for both of your sakes.
Please take good care of yourself.
Any chance he says these things to you Copa (I have to bail) because he on some level finds your reaction a positive for him?
Our daughter's ssi check is direct deposited into her checking acct and then rent is taken from there. Little left afterwards.
Like others have said be careful! Our daughter can drain the living life right out of you. If you aren't going so already, consider a therapist. This way you might be able to go extra visits during particularly tumultuous times.
Partially due to my autoimmune issues, there have been times that I largely step aside and let my husband take over. I do t know if this would work out for you though. But if you are in too much emotional pain, you might consider having M take over for at least a few days and let the chips fall where they may.
I hope he sticks with the job and so forth for both of your sakes.
Please take good care of yourself.
