...and it all falls apart.

[Lil]

The minute he said did you think he would not use it for gas......he was not using it for gas.

I sent it.

Yes, I know. Everyone agrees I shouldn't have sent it. I think he won't use it ALL for gas - I think he'll buy a pack of cigarettes with some of it. But I do think that a portion will go for gas, so I sent it.

I checked on line earlier today about the plasma thing. They require a SS card and a license - which he has - and a permanent residence and that he doesn't have. He said he set up an address with the shelter, but the plasma place wouldn't take a homeless shelter after he went there to try to donate. He said he tried to find a day labor place but hadn't been able to get work. Maybe he lied. Maybe he didn't. But it really doesn't matter anymore because regardless, I sent it.

I told him not to ask me for another penny. Not for any reason. I told him if Pueblo doesn't work out and he's stranded there and penniless, don't even ask me for a penny. Nothing. Because I won't do it again so he better make damn sure he has what the people want for gas. If he spends it and doesn't have it, don't ask for more. I love you but I'm done. No more. Period.

So. It's done. I know everyone agreed that not sending it was right...but regardless, it didn't feel right to not do it last night and I agonized over it and felt terrible. So it's done. This is about me, not him. Maybe I should have told him to walk. Maybe I should have hung up on him. Maybe I'm not strong enough to do what's best. Maybe I should block his numbers - though I can't block at work so that's never going to happen. Maybe I'm never going to be as "detached" as I should be. But I had to do what I could live with and I couldn't live with not giving him the means to get to a place where he could at least have a couch for a while and hopefully it'll work out. Maybe it won't. But nothing will change the fact that I feel better now. Maybe I should feel worse, but I don't.

 

[pasajes4]

Lil, He is a drug user and abuser. He has been doing this for a long time and is not showing any signs of stopping. Every dime you send him makes it easier for him to continue to become more and more a person that you would not even want to knowv if he were not your son. Do you really want your emotions to be controlled and manipulated by a drug using, aimless, drifter when your 50, 60, 70. How about jabber how long is he going to put up with this before it has a negative impact on the quality of your marriage and your health.

The best thing you did precious Lil was to tell that grown @$$ man NO. What do you think you did that was so bad that you deserve to be jerked around by someone that you have shown so much love for?

Sorry but the way he treats you is ticking me off.

 

[Lil]

I'm sorry...If anyone saw what was originally posted here, it wasn't fair. I'm sorry @pasajes4.

Being defensive with you folks that I know have my best interest at heart is wrong. So I won't be. I don't even disagree that I should have just stuck to it. But in the end I didn't. So it's done and I can't undo it.

I already told Jabber. Maybe he's mad, maybe he's not. He didn't sound mad. But as I said numerous times, he's not the one that has to deal with this. He's not the one getting the phone calls.

If $20 gets him back where he wants to be, good. If it doesn't, then whatever. He's a pot head - I get that. That doesn't mean he didn't actually need the money for gas to get back to Pueblo. It's done.

I need to work now.

 

[pasajes4]

I apologize Lil. I get how hard it is. I have been through it twice. I just hate to see you so torn up.

 

[RN0441]

Lil

I know you won't do this but what about letting Jabber take the lead with him for a while? Like my husband, he thinks more with his head than his heart and that is a good thing with these kids. Tell him to "call his dad"?

 

[Lil]

I know you won't do this but what about letting Jabber take the lead with him for a while? Like my husband, he thinks more with his head than his heart and that is a good thing with these kids. Tell him to "call his dad"?

Wouldn't that be nice? But Jabber works in a prison and can't be called all the damn time like I can. At a minimum you have to go thru a switchboard and get connected. He doesn't have a cell on him at work.

And he just won't anyway. He texts me or calls me. Originally, the habit started because of Jabber's job. Now, it's automatic.

Plus he knows that Jabber will say no. It's practically a reflex for him to say no, even if there's no good reason not to say yes. (No offense Honey, but you very rarely say yes.)

But like I said, it's done. I told him I won't do it again and I mean it. Okay...fine...I've meant it before, but he has it in writing now. Not another penny.

 

[Copabanana]

not a thing has changed

Every single one of you is right.

I disagree.

I believe your son is changing and I believe you are too, Lil. This is a process, an evolution. It is not absolute, dichotomous and it is not rigid. There is backsliding on our part, and theirs. There can be heart and communication while we continue to get stronger, and insist that they do so as well. Lil, you are doing this in the most difficult way there is: staying in the game, giving your son the gift of your wisdom ,support and love as he matures.

 

[BusynMember]

I doubt he used it for gas. Maybe I'm jaded after having a child who has antisocial traits for almost forty years, but I think your son lies to you as easily and often as he breathes and knows he can make you feel guilty for accusing you if not trusting him.

Why would you trust him? You shouldnt. You cant.

Yes, it is hard to say no. Today, while sitting in a train station on way back from visiting granddaughter, my day was ruined when my son called me to force me to give him an answer to a question I could not answer. "Will it look bad in court if I don't go to Cub Scouts to see son because I have PTSD seeing my ex and she will be thete? Will it hurt my case? And don't say I don't know. I need input and you're all I have and I'm getting sick."

I used to try to give him answers to unanswerable questions but if I said the wrong thing or admitted I don't know or just listened without comment I'd be called a f.....b (no it doesn't stand for facebook. ) He threatened to stop calling me if I stayed useless and didn't help. He threatened that today. He doesn't need my money, just to be his abused sounding board with advice that meets his expectations, so I know he thinks I am no longer needed. I'm too tired to do this anymore...

I finally said I had to go and that I can't control what HE DOES, but I can't handle this sort of abuse anymore. I told him that I love him and can call me anytime, but thay he must be respectful and that I dont want to talk about his case anymore.

That was a death knell for our relationship. He called me three times a day always only to about his case...and lately has racheted up his abuse and hanging up. Why??????


I don't know if I'll hear from him again so I cried in the train station and now on the train..for the loss of a child I really can not have a relationship with; for the futility of it all and his disturbance and my broken heart. What a waste of a gallant attempt to try to give us a normal relationship with my beloved son. He abuses me, yet it hurts so much to know I may not hear from him again. Yet it's a relief too.

Lil don't be me.
I have done all possible to help my son. In the end. I enabled his horrible behavior and gave him no need to have friends or to learn not to abuse people. He even abused his sister... but I didn't know for sure and now I do. Sickens me...the bullying he is capable of. How can I still love him? He is a dark person who takes his misery out on others and will not own his own sins.

I guess I'm saying Lil you don't know if your son, who is much nicer than mine, will ever learn to live life if you don't back off the money. These difficult adult kids either have to take it on their own or they will depend on us and not fend for themselves or learn how and we get stuck too.

My own son is lost, but yours has a chance. Give him a chance to use his own resources...you don't want to be me.

I sure hope I didn't high jack your thread. This finale with my own son just happened...I am sorry.

 

[LoveSushi]

My own son is lost, but yours has a chance. Give him a chance to use his own resources...you don't want to be me.

I sure hope I didn't high jack your thread. This finale with my own son just happened...I am sorry.

I'm sorry SWOT. I know how long you've tried to have a relationship with him, and how much of his abuse you have endured. I'm really sorry.

 

[Albatross]

Aw, SWOT, I'm sorry. What a rough and thoughtless and just downright mean demeanor he has when he is in a position of uncertainty. That just plain sucks that he dragged you to the point you reached today. I hope he comes to his senses and apologizes because you sure deserve an apology. Many hugs to you tonight.

Lil, we've all sent the money or something in its place even though we knew we shouldn't. No definite "nevers" around here, that's for sure.

 

[Albatross]

The further I travel on this path I see that it is as likely that the kind of mother I am is as much or more the issue at hand.

Yet another reason to focus on ourselves instead of our grown offspring.

 

[Lil]

SWOT I'm sorry for what you've been through, both today and through the years. I know you've set limits before and I know that he's heaped abuse on you over and over. I can't imagine. Really, while my son swears like a sailor, it's never directed AT me. The closest was when he asked me why I was being such a b***h about something. If he had been closer I'd have knocked his block off. As it was, he had time to duck. The only eff you earned him several days of no contact with a big warning that it would be more if it ever happened again. What your son does to you, I can't imagine. Breaks my heart.

But you've had to separate yourself from him before and eventually things got better. Have hope he'll get through this. And that you will too.

But SWOT my son isn't yours. He has problems and he's too dependent. Does he lie? Yes. But I also know it's not every word out of his mouth.

He's already asking me to mail him things now. The answer is no. At least for now. If he gets settled, maybe. If it's reasonable.

I don't believe he's a lost cause that I have to cut off completely. Not yet.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil I don't think your son is even close to a lost cause. I think he has great potential. I only meant that enabling can go on for so long that they can't function without us going on 40. Your son is still very young and is good hearted

 

[so ready to live]

Hi Lil. So sorry for your pain.
I do think that Kalahou's reminder of FOG is so valid. Most everything we ever did for our son was out of fear. It's the "what will happen if I don't" that kept me awake at night. We had a psychiatrist tell us years ago that "just so you know, this may not end well" I never forgot that, but I didn't grasp it until this last year. Once I accepted that reality, although I know it sounds defeatist, I got better. Our son didn't. But, as we have discussed here before, he certainly has not gotten worse without our help. It helped me to know that it was disrespectful to him to keep assisting-virtually saying "I know you can't figure this out yourself, so mom will help again". I tried so hard to affirm his abilities as a child and then as an adult I affirm his inabilities? Doesn't make sense, but none of this does. You can only do what you can live with today but don't be too hard on yourself. You'll get better too, it takes time. Prayers.

 

[RN0441]

SWOT

So sorry to hear your son is still doing this. When will that dang case be over?? When it is, will he still be this way?

I would tell him NOT to call me when he is in that frame of mind and/or I'd block him for a while.

I blocked my son for over 3 weeks because I didn't like his tone. He missed our relationship and sent me an email. I still blocked him. He then asked his dad this week if I would unblock him. I just finally unblocked him a few days ago but I will block him in a heartbeat if he ramps it up.

I.can't.take.it.

That's the only reason I need!

(((Hugs)))

 

[Snow White]

Lil
I know you won't do this but what about letting Jabber take the lead with him for a while? Like my husband, he thinks more with his head than his heart and that is a good thing with these kids. Tell him to "call his dad"?

I'm sorry your son keeps doing this to you, Lil. I'm in the same boat. My husband was not able to handle the calls/requests from our daughter. I now handle that part of it. It's hard because I am like you and FOG keeps me enabling our daughter. She's on her "journey" by bicycle through Asia. She has been posting on FB about her travels. She wants money to eat but in her video she says she can't wait for 5pm when she can buy beer (in Thailand the stores are prohibited from selling alcohol during certain times of the day). And now she has another 'stomach virus'. Next, she'll be asking for money for a visit to a clinic and medications. I know the cycle. I'm getting tired of it. I have caller ID at work and home. I'm starting to ignore the calls more and more often. Then she'll email and get nasty. But we can't keep doing this.

If I were you, I would block my son for a while. RN0441 has great advice. Let him call your husband (if he has to wait until the end of the day, so be it). It will give you some respite. Then, when you're able, you can unblock.

Hugs and prayers to you.

 

[RN0441]

And the good thing that comes out of "mom" stepping back - for us - my husband and son have gotten closer.

 

[BusynMember]

To RN...thanks for your kindness.

When the case is over (and his ex will likely take him to court again no matter what the outcome for a third time) my son will not be as unpleasant to me. But he will still tell me, as though it is funny, about his use of women and others. He will still whine he should have been an only child and I should not have adopted these "imports." He will still have done things to my daughter that are unthinkable and that make me sick. He will still be 100 percent only interested in himself and thankfully also his son, although I shudder to think what he will do if his son ever turns rebellious. He is definitely a narcissistic, charming, glib, materialistic, disinterested in the world beyond his and interested only in himself. My father is like this only he never did anything to physically harm us. I think it is hereditary. Apparently my dad's sibling, who I barely knew, was similar or as bad.

So the answer is I am sure he won't change. He was born this way, but it only became glaring as a pre teen. I put him in the hospital at age twelve, but he cried and begged me to take him out so I did. He got meaner as he got older and I never got to see my grandson because his ex didn't want her baby to be around our family, no reason given. And Son was too wussy to fight her. I barely know this grandson because they moved to St. Louis and now it's too far. Now he's mad I don't go often.

If I had not gotten my three blessings, it would kind of like having no kids. So blessed to have adopted a princess, Sonic and Jumper.Now I have a granddaughter too. Son is just not comforting or fun to be around. He can't help it. He won't change.

Thanks again for caring. I'm used to it and Jumper is here right now and Up just returned from visiting Princess and grandbaby. I am blessed to have these angels, Sonic too. They are great. I so appreciate them all and my husband.

Jumper and I are going to watch Sonic bowling league now.

My life would be so empty if Son was all I had....

Love you all.

 

[1905]

I would have given the $20 too. I would consider that a hand up, more than a hand out, because he is trying. He is, and good for him. He didn't ask for a huge amount. Also, you're not giving into his every wish, maybe he's testing his boundaries, he'll learn.

 

[AppleCori]

I probably would have, too.