I can't do this....

[Lil]

OH MY GOD!

Another half-hour phone call! Really! First he wanted to know what we were going to talk about tonight. Then when I wouldn't give details other than that we had options to discuss with him, he freaked out about the apartment and on and on demanding to know if we were going to help him and if he was going to get the apartment and I finally told him that unless he had a job by the 5th, No, We would not pay for the apartment. Then it got CRAZY with him going on and on about how he can't get a job and no one wants him and ...

At one point I hung up on him.

Finally he called back and I said if he so much as raised his voice I'd hang up on him again. It was not as bad but just as crazy.

Rule #1 HAS to be Therapy. I cannot deal with this!

 

[pasajes4]

Lil & Jabber, This is just a suggestion about the conditions. When it comes to chores, do not leave too much wiggle room. Make sure these are conditions and timelines you both can stick with.

 

[Copabanana]

Then it got CRAZY with him going on and on about how he can't get a job and no one wants him and ...

Rule #1 HAS to be Therapy. I cannot deal with this!

He handed you this on a silver platter, Lil.

He gave you your absolute bottom line. You cannot be scapegoated for his issues with him waltzing around doing nothing about them. He needs to get an evaluation (s) and he needs to get treatment.

As it is he is putting all of the responsibility onto you and Jabber. Which has been the issue from day one.

 

[Copabanana]

Lil. I do not see him as motivated to do his part. You and Jabber are doing his parts for him. What has he done as a good faith effort, except run around like a chicken to look for work because he blew it off?

He needs to have skin in the game. As it stands, all of the wanting, work and effort are on your parts. Where is his good faith effort?

How is this different than before? I do not think it is. And then to erupt during your work day? These behaviors on his part are habits. He has to be the one who breaks them not you.

I am concerned about presenting a new 3 month plan to him when he is not complying with the present one. It seems to me to be your plan, and his plan is to just play you.

 

[GoingNorth]

Lil, you HAVE to put a stop to him calling you at work. Does he call you directly, or does he go through a switchboard?

If through a switchboard, you should be able to have them screen his calls. If he calls you directly, then it's, "Can't talk. I'm at work." and hang up.

He'll probably call you frantically for a few days, but hopefully it will get through to him. I went many years with only being able to call my mother in case of emergencies, with not being able to reach my husband at all, sometimes for weeks at a time, and with not being able to take personal calls while on the job. Once cellphones became available, people could call me and leave messages, knowing that I checked my messages on breaks and lunch and would call them back then.

If your company is going through a PBX, and he is calling from a fixed number, it's easy for the switch witch to block that number for you.

 

[RN0441]

It's so hard - all of this.

We don't want to believe that our OWN children will take advantage of us like they do. Why? Because we let them.

I plan to have that conversation with my son WHEN he calls. He's avoiding us like the plague because he knows how pissed off we are.

 

[Lil]

And then to erupt during your work day? These behaviors on his part are habits. He has to be the one who breaks them not you.

Yeah - New Rule #2 is DON'T CALL ME AT WORK! Unless he's DYING I don't want to know! We're THREE employees down, a new boss, and I can't ing concentrate because HE keeps making me CRAZY!

It seems to me to be your plan, and his plan is to just play you.

So what exactly do you suggest? Throw him on the street when he CLEARLY has issues? Sure. That'll help us all.

The fact is, he doesn't WANT anything when he calls. He doesn't expect me to say, "Oh poor baby, here's money." He doesn't want me to tell him how to fix things. He just wants to vent and vent and vent and vent about how crappy his life is. When I make suggestions, he simply goes off on why they won't work. He's screwed. His life is over. He may as well give up. Nothing will ever work out. There's nothing he can do. And on and on and ON AND ON!

He calls direct to my desk. He doesn't call my cell, he calls my office phone directly. If I don't answer that, he calls my office phone.

I've explained numerous times why I answer the phone. I HAVE to answer the phone. I could not bear living thru another situation like I did with his biodad. I could not ever forgive myself. Ever.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Another half-hour phone call! Really! First he wanted to know what we were going to talk about tonight.

I'm sorry Honey. When I heard you say to him last night that we were going to have a discussion, just the three of us, I knew this was coming. This is all part of his problem. ANY unknown details about a situation that deals directly with him are like the Sword of Damocles hanging over him.

 

[Lil]

I do not expect a nice discussion.

He truly thinks he's tried SO HARD to get a job. He truly thinks that. He truly, really, believes that he can't find one and he's just screwed.

He went on and on about the fire. Reminding him he QUIT his job two days before the fire - did not go over well. Because it was the fire you know that caused his life to fall apart. He couldn't job hunt from a motel. He apparently couldn't for the last two and a half months either. It all would have worked out if it hadn't been for that fire.

 

[GoingNorth]

Well, honestly I'd find that a bit anxiety-inducing as well. I've gotten better about it over years of waiting for everything from meetings to decide the fate of a project I was running, to waiting for a diagnosis.

 

[Lil]

And telling him that this freaking out is NOT how normal adults handle these situations - also went over as you'd expect. After all, NO ONE BUT HIM has ever had trouble finding a job and NO ONE BUT HIM has ever been put out because of a fire.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[GoingNorth]

Because it was the fire you know that caused his life to fall apart. He couldn't job hunt from a motel. He apparently couldn't for the last two and a half months either. It all would have worked out if it hadn't been for that fire.

Still making excuses...sigh

 

[Lil]

Well, honestly I'd find that a bit anxiety-inducing as well. I've gotten better about it over years of waiting for everything from meetings to decide the fate of a project I was running, to waiting for a diagnosis.

You'd think that me telling him that we weren't planning on just putting him out on the street would help.

Oh god there's the phone.

 

[Copabanana]

So what exactly do you suggest? Throw him on the street when he CLEARLY has issues? Sure. That'll help us all.

Well, my response demonstrates exactly how easy it is to think you know best when you have no skin in the game. Forgive me, Lil.

Maybe I am trying to justify what I did, which was exactly that: I threw my son out. Who then had multiple psychiatric hospital admissions. I am lucky I still have him. How can I advocate the same thing to any other parent? Clearly if my doing so, may be self-serving?

I walk it back and I offer again my apology.

I could not bear living thru another situation like I did with his biodad. I could not ever forgive myself. Ever.

Oh Lil. I am so sorry.

And I do see it. My son, did reactive, impulsive things. I think I am in denial at how bad it could have been.

I have said before and I want to again: You and Jabber are my role models. I did not have the strength or the support from M at that time to do as you are doing, but I should have. I am just overcome with sadness for all of us, each of us.

 

[Albatross]

Lil, if you think he obviously has problems then I believe there is no point in making elaborate plans to get him out. If he doesn't abide by your requirements, you won't hold him accountable anyway. If this is where you stand then I believe a neuropsychologist. evaluation, counseling and drug test are your conditions. Then go from there. If you fear him following in biodad's footsteps, perhaps you should consider counseling. You can't make tough decisions with that fear always in the back of your mind.

 

[Lil]

Well, my response demonstrates exactly how easy it is to think you know best when you have no skin in the game. Forgive me, Lil.

Maybe I am trying to justify what I did, which was exactly that: I threw my son out. Who then had multiple psychiatric hospital admissions. I am lucky I still have him. Who can I advocate the same thing to any other parent? Clearly if my doing so, may be self-serving?

I walk it back and I offer again my apology.

No, I'm sorry. He's not the only one who gets overly upset.



On the up side - all he asked for this time was the location of my nicotine gum. lol

 

[Lil]

Lil, if you think he obviously has problems then I believe there is no point in making elaborate plans to get him out. If he doesn't abide by your requirements, you won't hold him accountable anyway. If this is where you stand then I believe a neuropsychologist. evaluation, counseling and drug test are your conditions. Then go from there. If you fear him following in biodad's footsteps, perhaps you should consider counseling. You can't make tough decisions with that fear always in the back of your mind.

I agree. He may be more open to it than he used to be based upon some of his statements today. We'll see.

As for biodad - that really just goes to the phone thing. He called, I refused the call, he hung himself immediately after.

I've felt a great deal of guilt about that, though I know I shouldn't. But it's always there, you know, the thought that had I talked to him maybe I'd have realized something was up and gotten him help. So yeah, I have issues with answering the phone.

 

[Copabanana]

Lil, if you think he obviously has problems then I believe there is no point in making elaborate plans to get him out. If he doesn't abide by your requirements, you won't hold him accountable anyway.

I think Albatross is right. Either he can be accountable or not. The evaluations make sense.

If you fear him following in biodad's footsteps, perhaps you should consider counseling. You can't make tough decisions with that fear always in the back of your mind.

And this makes sense, too.

 

[BusynMember]

I have always wondered if sonis on the autism spectrum.

Making them leave works best for criminal behavior/drug abuse. it will not help somebody who is differently wired. Some need help forever. The help is there, but the person needs to be willing to be evaluated.

I would never have put Sonic out. He would have been unable to learn to fend for himself no matter how many years he would have been homeless. it would have been cruel.

Every situation is different.

 

[Copabanana]

Lil. This thread is called "I can't do this." Listen to yourself.

You were traumatized with the death of your son's father. He may have planned it that way. How in the world could you or anybody in the world deal with what feels like what could be a repeat performance?

More and more I am feeling that you are on to something, which Albatross, eloquently, has reemphasized. The burden has to be taken off of you and placed upon a professional.

This is not a question of detachment, but residual trauma.

My son is back at home with me. He has blown it over and over again. We have not thrown him out. It is working. (But I think it might be better to keep it open ended with respect to time.)