I can't do this....

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
M was the first one to see that, no matter how much I declared I wanted my son I was dying inside, just withering.
Actually the way I typed it was the opposite of what I intended to say.

I intended to say: M saw I suffered more with my son away even though I did not feel it or see it. He saw me dying inside, closing off my heart in order to feel--pushing my child away. The horror of it is that I did the same thing with my mother, father and my sister--and I was doing it with my son, too.

And I typed the opposite, implying that wanting my son near me was killing me. Which is how I felt it to be. These things are so difficult to understand how we protect our hearts, and end up suffering from the cure.

I think unintentionally I wrote the truth of things: that the dark, dark time was when nothing worked. I withered and died with him near me and away.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Until Lil and Jabber are certain there is no mental health component to their son's behavior they cannot, if they hope to hold faith with themselves in future, turn their son into the street.

Cedar
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
So, I think we've decided to give him the options. 1. He leaves here. 2. IF he has a job by the 5th, we'll pay 1st no rent and put electric in our names. If he doesn't pay the bill, we'll turn it off. If he gets evicted, that's on him. 3. He stays here with a number of conditions. The main being deadlines for work and banking at least half his check. I think he'll take 2, but we're going to be very clear on the downside.

If he doesn't have a job by the 5th, he has only option 1 and 3.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Out. If he actually does something wrong, I'll have given him a chance. He'll be given a chance to correct behavior of course but repeated violations or refusal to abide by the rules won't be tolerated.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Lil and Jabber,

Sounds great. It gives him all the autonomy in the world, with protections, should he choose to avail himself of them.
I see Lil and Jabber as doing exactly the things that will propel their son towards these ends: productivity, self-control and responsibility. He chooses how he does it, but he does not choose whether or not he can.
Until Lil and Jabber are certain there is no mental health component to their son's behavior they cannot, if they hope to hold faith with themselves in future, turn their son into the street.
Well, this is what I did. I turned out my son who had mental health issues, into the street.

He would not do anything here in my home. Not seek mental health treatment. Not work or go to school. He was hostile, morose and stuck.

Looking back, I had unrealistic expectations. I listened to M and others, that if he had to fall back on his own resources he would be motivated to work. This was not to be the case.

He found places to stay without conditions, and got SSI. Eventually, when the soft spots to land, dried up, he became homeless.

For years, his attitudes towards us remained negative, hostile and dominating. The more ground he lost in his life, the more he tried to make us responsible.

Until he changed. He is still mentally ill but he is going to therapy, has cut down radically if not completely the marijuana and is trying to do the same with caffeine pills. to which he now sees and admits he has an addiction. He works every day (with M), conforms to expectations, and is learning some job skills. He is living with us and more and more is trying to keep things clean, and help out financially. His attitude is worlds different.

Actually, I see no other way that things could have unfolded other than they did.

Until a mentally ill person is willing to seek treatment, curtail their aggressive behavior and to be productive, I do not see a place for them within their family or near them.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Thank you SWOT.

What I forgot to say is this: I believe that almost everybody has free choice. Not about everything, but about some things there are always options.

I think when I was trying to decide everything for my son, push him, control and protect, and guide him I was taking away from him the greatest source of autonomy and self-betterment he had, the ability to decide for himself

My son is still mentally ill, in pretty much exactly the same ways as before except a little worse--his anxieties have gelled into ideas about fluoride in the water, being poisoned by toxins, as well as the conspiracy theories.

But little by little he seems to be engaging the areas where there may be choice points, and making good choices. While we pushed stopping the marijuana, he was the one that called himself on the caffeine. And he did not have to accept our terms about the marijuana. But out of his mouth did come the statement: "my life is not such that I am in a position to use marijuana to the extent that I am." While he backslides, he is willing to curb some behaviors and self-will, in order to achieve more in other areas.

By my taking care of, protecting, controlling, and insisting--I was depriving him the opportunity to decide and to demand of himself. The very thing I wanted, that he have the motivation to change--I was diminishing by my own behavior. I see this and I think it.

There is a complete inversion of our roles and responsibilities at present. He is the same person and so am I. Except he understands his own power to choose. And so do I.

Oh how glorious this is for both of us. Am I still afraid and sad about what will be, for him and for I? Yes. But I have hope, too. And I believe he does too.

Thank you SWOT. Good luck Lil and Jabber.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
COPA, don't thank me. You're the one who figured it out and helped your son so much. He just sounds so much better.

You are now one of my board heroes.

Kudos!!!
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Tonight's the night.

We didn't get to talk to him last night as he brought J home with him, but he was told that we'd need to talk tonight, just the 3 of us. We have our list of conditions if he chooses to stay home.

1. housework/chores, etc.
2. Job in 2 weeks.
3. Therapy
4. bank money, pay your unpd electric bill
5. No guests except RARE occasions
6. No being given rides except to work and job hunting
7. Start his community service

Of course all of those are somewhat flexible. If he leaves dirty dishes in the sink once a week, no big deal. If it's daily - very big deal. If he hasn't gotten a job in 2 weeks, but he's had several interviews, we'll talk. The amount of money is still to be determined.

The plan is to tell him, "Let's shoot for you being ready to move out in 3 months. If you can't find a place because you haven't had a job long enough, we'll extend it. But in 3 months we should start looking at apartments."

Sounds reasonable to me. Wonder how it'll sound to him?

I almost hope he just moves out or gets a job and takes the 1 month option. But I am really worried he'll fall flat on his face with that one. :(
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Lil, we are all pulling for you and Jabber and him here. We want something good to happen for you all. Praying that it will tonight, and a new path will begin. Hugs.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Lil it's so good to have a plan in place!

That is a great place to start.

Thinking of you and hoping it goes well!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I thought that we'd decided that two months wasn't reasonable given the amount of money he'll have to save up?
My concern with this is that you would be unfurling the red carpet out for him for this extended time, without any real commitment by him except words.

You guys, I just started a FOO thread How to take control of my circumstances....It involves how to respond in my job. If anybody has time, could you take a look?

So, back to Lil and Jabber.

Has your son really done much to warrant that kind of commitment? He may hear the 2 months, 10 weeks, or 3 months as a promise, and not hear the other part, the conditions required from him. Do you think it makes sense to make the time period short, with the possibility of renewals, rather than speaking of that kind of time period initially?

Like, we will offer you 2 weeks, and depending on you, we will think about extending it.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Like, we will offer you 2 weeks, and depending on you, we will think about extending it.

It could go badly either way. Give him too long at a time and he gets comfortable and doesn't do what he needs too do. Make it to short and he gets the attitude that he won't make it so why bother even trying.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
What Jabber said.

Realistically, he'll probably need 3 to 4 months minimum to save any money and find a place that will rent to him without a co-signor. On the up side, he has a rental history. On the down side, he has no job history to speak of and no to poor credit. But if we say: 4 months - he may just be lazy the first two or three.

By the same token, there's NO WAY he will have the money to move out in two weeks. If we say two weeks he won't even try because he knows that would be impossible.

So we say "10 weeks and we start looking for a place...sooner if you have money and want to start looking."
 
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