I HATE MONEY

[Childofmine]

Lil, go back and read your first post this morning and then your second. Your first post was positive, upbeat, there was a strong air of letting go throughout it.

Your second post was reacting to his drama and his situation....again.

You are making such good progress Lil! Since you started posting on this board, I can see it in how you are thinking and acting---progress! And it's about progress, not perfection.

Keep working to let go of whatever happens in his life. The ups, the downs, the inactivity, the activity.

Your difficult child is on his own journey called life. It really doesn't include you. It's his journey with his Higher Power, and it is going to have to make many twists and turns along the way.

Let it be and let it happen without your involvement, as much as you possibly can.

Start practicing responses like these:

• Hmmmmm...interesting.
• Well, that sounds promising (hard, sad, bad, etc.).
• I'm sure things will work out.
• Okay.
• Oh.
• Wow.

You may have to walk away and scream into a pillow, but do your best to not engage and not react.

Hang in there! You ARE doing great.

 

[dstc_99]

I think I won't take his calls today.

I think that is a wonderful decision.

 

[Lil]

Lil said:
I think I won't take his calls today.


I think that is a wonderful decision.

Yeah...I should have stuck with that.

Your second post was reacting to his drama and his situation....again.

You are absolutely right.

I made the mistake of taking a second call. He started with: He's bored and thought he'd clean. Was there anything I wanted him to do. I told him to start with his room and all that laundry we got out of his (our) car. It progressed from there. JH has to move and he may never see him again, no one wants to hang out, no one has a car, AS is at work and anyway he lost his license (DWI), blah, blah. Nothing makes him happy and yes he knows it's all his fault, etc. He's afraid he won't get a job at this place tomorrow anyway...he just has a bad feeling. (God forbid he just go to the factory today.)

I offered a lot of, I know's and Uh Huh's and "I'm sorry you are bored. I understand you're frustrated." Then I told him to make brownies because chocolate makes people feel better.

He said he's just been trying so hard to please us. I said, if it's any consolation, his dad and I have been far less stressed this week because he has been doing so.

It was no consolation. LOL

We ended with, "Well I guess I'll see you guys in 4 or 5 hours." (sad pouty voice)


Maybe tonight we can offer some "family time" that might actually be interesting. He likely won't go for it, but we can offer.

Your difficult child is on his own journey called life. It really doesn't include you. It's his journey with his Higher Power

I wish he believed in a Higher Power.

 

[Echolette]

Brilliant, Lil. He has not business including you in his grumpy..and PS part of being a person of value in the world is positioning yourself to be helpful to friends...which you can't do it fyou have no resources. In this case it would be YOU helping the friend and difficult child getting the credit, right?

My SO's daughter is oh so sad every Christmas when she can't afford gifts for her little sister/friends/dad. She can afford weekly manicures and memorial day down the shore, and mosst nights in bars...I told her that part of being a grown up is being able to participate in holidays...and PS..COOK SOMETHING.

I'm glad to hear that your step towards detachment helped you and your relationship. Sometimes everyone is just ready for the next phase but they didn't know how to get there.

Echo

 

[Lil]

Why is it so HARD to not answer the phone? I let one go...but then he called the office phone. I answered with, "I'm working honey, what do you need?"

He wanted to know where the trash bags were. Apparently, he really is doing chores. That was it.

Still, I shouldn't have answered. But it's soooo hard to ignore him!

Deep breath. Try again.

 

[Echolette]

You'll get better at it.

Just a warning though..picking up SOMETIMES is a serrious reinforcement to his behavior..unpredictable reinforcement creates the hardest behaviors to extinguish (I think that is an old Skinner rat experiment...he gave rates food everytime they pressed a lever...then he stopped. The ones he stopped consistently with gave up on lever pressing after few tries. If he gave them food after 5 presses, then again after 11 more...they continued pressing for weeks).

So you set yourself up for prolonging the aggravation...but I do understand.

Echo

 

[Lil]

You're right. It's just almost a reflex. When a phone rings you answer it! I don't think I've ever allowed something to go to voice mail...like ever. I even answered when my ex called from jail...except once when I had told him I'd never take another collect call from jail...and that was the day he hung himself. Yes, within hours of refusing his call he hung himself.

So I guess maybe I have a little harder time than other folks not answering a phone. I'd laugh...but it's not funny really.

And now he's texting me. Just to complain I guess.

 

[Echolette]

except once when I had told him I'd never take another collect call from jail...and that was the day he hung himself. Yes, within hours of refusing his call he hung himself.

Well wow. I have to say, that would make it hard to let calls go to voicemail.

I hope you know you didn't push him over the brink...you didn't cause and couldn't have prevented his suicide. I can certainly see why that would make you anxious about difficult child...but still. Try to give yourself a break. If you can even pause before texting back it will help with the dopamine rush he gets by getting an instant response..try to slow it down a bit, so eventually you aren't the first person he thinks of the second he has an unpleasant thought in his brain he wants to share.

Hugs to you.

 

[BusynMember]

Question: Why is it hard to ignore him? If it's an emergency somebody other than him will call you. If you try to figure out why to feel guilty that may help you be able to ignore him at work. He didn't need to call you for that. And if he complains when you get home, you can do my all time favorite, "You're a smart man. I knew you could handle it without me."

It is good he is doing chores, but at his age he SHOULD be doing them. I hope he keeps it up.

 

[Lil]

I hope you know you didn't push him over the brink...

I know, I really do. But it makes it so hard to refuse a call. I don't think I ever really realized that there's some psychological factor to my instant answering of a call before I typed those words. My brain goes into panic mode when I don't and I start to worry if I should have answered. Of course when the phone rings I get the sinking feeling in my stomach. Da*ned if I do and if I don't, huh?

So after numerous texts he called again. He just HAD to talk to me. He's in one of his hyper-panicky-poor-pitiful-me moods where "everything is just terrible and he has no friends and he has no money and there's nothing he can do and nothing goes right and he just wants ONE thing to go right and there's nothing to make him happy and he's tried to get jobs and he's put in applications and nothing is happening there and yes it's all his fault but he's just at the end of his rope and he just, he can't explain, he can't do anything." (and yes...it's practically a stream of consciousness just like that.)

I told him, "I CAN'T DO THIS! I'm at work. I can't help, and I will talk to you when I get home!"

 

[Lil]

Question: Why is it hard to ignore him?

See above. It's not just him...I find it almost impossible to NOT answer a phone. Ever. It's reflex. I worry when I don't that it was urgent. It's me.

I have to get over that.

 

[Lil]

And now we've moved to email:

I'm sorry for everything. You don't deserve to have me vent at you the way I do, especially when working. You aren't responsible for any of my lifes problems and I know that, and I don't mean to "blow off" any suggestion you make, but I've tried so much, and nothing works. There are few things in life I enjoy doing on a regular basis. Hanging with friends, gaming, ect, theres only so much I can actually do and when Im unable to occupy my time in a way that I feel comfortable and enjoy doing its very upsetting. And with my moods, as well as yours and dads, you should know its very hard for me to take my mind off things. I'm aware I messed up the month I've been here and I deserve what has happened, but its been harder than ever on me being back here again. Having nobody to talk to, nobody to hang with, annoying internet data (lol), and not being able to use the car is a very VERY drastic change from my time in west plains. Even before I moved, I had friends, I could game/stream whenever, I had use of the car, and now almost everything is the complete opposite. I've spent this week applying to places online through craigslist because honestly, I want and need a job that I don't mind doing and/or makes use of my skill set and its upsetting knowing that even with my extensive computer literacy I can't get an email from almost anyone, which upsets me more. So, I've been doing all I can to be on better terms, be a better son, and to make myself happier, but almost everything I've had going is more or less gone. Im aware I need to be patient, and Ive been better on that since this week has started. I've been not asking for money even though I'm broke (J**n can only pay so much and I've been trying to help pay J****d because he's basically out on the streets) and I've done chores and things around the house as you ask, ect. I know its only been a week too, but its already felt like I've been here for an eternity having no friends and nothing fun to go out and do. Part of my problem I guess is that I get the idea that I "need" money sometimes, but other times its that I can't go out and do anything I want without it. Hell, if I had use of the car or some pocket cash, I could go and find someone to hang with or something to do, but that isn't the case because almost everything nowadays requires some form of payment. I've barked up this tree thousands of times before, but the tiniest budget would make a world of difference. When you guys put gas in the car, buy cigarettes for me, ect it makes me feel guilty that I can't do it on my own, and while it'd be the same basic thing if I we're paying with money you gave me, I feel completely helpless whenever you guys do so while I'm just waiting for replies from business that very well may never come, but thats just me being a downer. I don't expect you to pay attention to the last half of this talking about money or the car or anything, nor do I expect anything to change. I know I've said it a thousand times before, but I am truly sorry for all that I have done.

 

[Echolette]

gah!!! pause! don't respond! I need an hour to answer in depth!

if you need to answer, just say, "difficult child, I read your email, thank you for sharing, I''ll answer in more detail when I'm not at work, love mom"

 

[Lil]

LOL Now you see exactly what I'm dealing with...only in writing.

 

[Lil]

I did respond before I posted it (sorry) but not to the money:

Dear, I believe you are sorry for what you've done. I just don't know what else to say. It's been less than a week since the car and money stopped. Less than a week. I just really don't know what else to say.

You said:
"There are few things in life I enjoy doing on a regular
basis. Hanging with friends, gaming, ect, theres only so
much I can actually do and when Im unable to occupy my time
in a way that I feel comfortable and enjoy doing its very
upsetting."
This is why I suggest things like getting a hobby, taking a walk, learning to cook, something, anything, to keep you occupied. This is one reason you will be much happier when you are working...even at a job you don't like, it will occupy your time.

"I want and need a job that I don't
mind doing and/or makes use of my skill set and its
upsetting knowing that even with my extensive computer
literacy I can't get an email from almost anyone"
I know you want this kind of a job. I hope you get one. But you may find it necessary to take something else just so you have job experience. Still, you need to keep in mind, your interview wasn't cancelled, it was just moved to tomorrow. Maybe the interviewer was double booked, maybe she called in sick, maybe her kid broke a leg, you don't know...but it was NOT cancelled. If they had no intent of giving you any chance at all they would have cancelled. There are other temp places you can try. There is customer service at (factory).

It's been less than a week.

Patience is not a virtue you have ever possessed much. I know. But honey, it's one you need.

I love you. Dad'll be home in a couple hours and me not long after that. Maybe we can all do something tonight. It's a thought.

 

[Lil]

....and lastly, his last email was:

And please, if you could, try to make it home earlier. Because while its probably not going to result into anything at all, I do really need you guys to really actually listen to me. I'm not trying to make things hard, I'm not trying to argue. I just want anyone at all to see my point, because nobody seems to be understanding me.

My response was: "Just because we don't agree with you does not mean we don't understand what you are saying. And I'm sorry, but if you are going to ask for money and/or the car, you may as well not. I can't imagine us changing our minds about it. I'll see you when I get home."

And I'm NOT leaving work early!!! He's taken up too much of my day as it is.

 

[Echolette]

Oh dear. Now that I've had a chance to read it I can see there isn't much more to say. It's "we love you, you are a smart guy with skills, we are sure you will figure this out,( you may need to take a lesser job while you look for a better fit, )
although he can/ should be able to figure out the part in parens.

I totally totally agree with not leaving work early. What a startling request!

He does ramble. And he is entitled. I feel sorry for him, which is never good, but you giving him money is a totally losing game. No budget. I know you know that.

Warm hugs and good luck to you. Keep posting.

Echo

 

[Lil]

He has NO patience. Zero. And when something goes wrong...like the job interview being postponed...this is what happens.

See how easy he is to feel sorry for? :ambivalence:

I would LOVE to get him in therapy. He could use it to learn coping skills. But he just pooh-poohs the idea every time or gets defensive.

It's going to be a long night.

 

[BusynMember]

It was, in my opinion, an interesting e-mail. To say the least, he is mired in maybe the early teen years when you feel it is your right to hang out and have fun. He has not yet figured out that life isn't about having fun all the time and driving a car you aren't paying for..it's about moving on to adulthood and learning to be responsible and to take care of your own needs. His constant talk about hanging out and using the car and having fun does not make sense with adulthood. There is a time to work, a time to do what has to be done if you like it or not, and a time to have a good time on your own dime and with your own paid for car. He desperately needs to understand he is not a child anymore and I feel so sorry for you having to deal with this mindset.

I have learned simple, concise responses that can not be made into arguments such as, "I am sorry you feel that way. Once you have a job you will have more options about what to do. You are a smart man and I know it will happen." Maybe even that is too much. Maybe "I hope you can change your life" is a better answer.

I do know I learned not to overly engage my now 36 year old son. If he complains about his life, I mostly just let the time pass after he says it or respond, "You're a smart man and I'm sure you can work it out without me."

My 36 year old son wants a mommy. He, by his own words, is a momma's boy. He has always wanted me to continue being his mommy. I don't mean his mother. I mean his mommy. And for too long I sort of did it. But those days are over now and I'm done being anyone's mommy. I will happily be a friend and mother with an adult mature relationship with all of my adult children, but I have already done my time taking care of them. Maybe you need to ramp it down even more.

PS--I am convinced that anyone who really wants and needs a job gets one. And not off of Craig's list. There are temporary job agencies that will place you and sometimes they become permanent. There are job rehabilitation centers that help those having trouble write resumes and find jobs. There are ads everywhere, even some on billboards of fast food joints. In the meantime, to make a few bucks, you can mow lawns, do little chores for the elderly, or babysit, if you are fit to do so. I was told, in between jobs, to volunteer and I did almost every day. THAT counts as job experience. Showing you are being productive is enticing to somebody looking to hire somebody. Gaming and hanging out is not. You also need to pass a drug test for many jobs.

Many hugs for you and may things get better and better.

 

[Albatross]

Well my take for what it's worth is that he is in panic mode. Either this is fear (of failing, of looking foolish, of losing his freedom and having to join the rest of the schmucks who have to work for a living when he thought he was unique) or he is acting like a spoiled little *%&+. But either way he has to get a job...

The therapy might be an idea. But I wouldn't let it be used to avoid getting a job.

My son used that one, manufacturing uncontrollable hand shaking that only affected him when he had to deal with other human beings. It bought him a few weeks.

I would just keep reiterating, you are either in school or you are working. That is just the way the world works. And you don't get $ until you get a job. That is the way the world works.

Also, he took a long time to compose that email -- time that could have been used to fill out more job applications. I know I'm a cynic, but I am not sure he wants you to understand him so much as he wants you to go along with what he wants.