It never rains but it pours.

[Jabberwockey]

Jabber, I would've been absolutely infuriated. That's just plain rude. I likely would've terminated the conversation.

As I wasn't really a part of the conversation, it wasn't my place. As it was, it didn't infuriate me. It just made me realize how little he actually wanted to talk to us.

I know what we have to cover is:

Agreed. Like it or not, we need to talk about the alcohol as well if for no other reason that the fact that alcohol is a depressant.

 

[Lil]

alcohol is a depressant.

I suppose...but at this point we don't even know if he's doing much drinking. I assume he has that whisky in his backpack, but I don't know he's drank any - I didn't check the bottle of soda, but it hadn't been opened when I went to bed.

And it's not like he doesn't know that. He knows. If he's not drinking every day or something, I'm not sure it's worth doing more than a quick mention that it will make depression worse.

 

[GoingNorth]

The alcohol thing is also a "house rules" matter. My mother is an alcoholic who has been in recovery for 40 years.

She very occasionally has a half glass of wine, but that is it.

I now drink a beer a few times a year, but in 82 I liked to have a beer or two most evenings.

My mother told me that my drinking and having alcohol in the house was making her uncomfortable.

The rest of the 6-pack went down the drain and I didn't drink again while staying with her.

The fact that your son bought a 2 ltr bottle of soda to use as a whiskey mixer points to serious drinking...ie: killing the taste of the alcohol so he can drink to get drunk.

Not at all the same thing as buying a bottle of Glenlivet, though I'd blow my stack if my unemployed kid showed up with a bottle of Glenlivet. Stuff costs about 60 dollars a bottle.

 

[RN0441]

My son will be 21 in August. He isn't living with us but seriously, if you're not doing what you are supposed to do, you don't get to drink in my house.

He always compared himself to his 29 year old brother who drank at home every night (that would be my stepson and more than I would have allowed if it were my son; I would have said something), but he has two jobs so don't compare yourself to that. He has since moved out with girlfriend.

 

[BusynMember]

You would not have to do much for an easy child. They grow up, crave independence, follow fair rules and move out on their oen dime if they dont like it. And they dont cuss and yell at their parents.

Lil, I could be wrong, but I think your son knows you are a soft touch so he manipulates you. Unless he is insane or cognitively challenged, he knows what he is doing. My Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son knows how to behave. Lil, your son knows right from wrong. He just doesnt feel the need to do it.

Hugs and good luck.

 

[pasajes4]

You may be right, but I'm just not sure it's that deliberate or even conscious. It seems to me this is just...he doesn't see it. He seems to truly think that he's the injured party here.

I used to think mine just did not get it. To a certain degree this is true. It is also true that these things have been explained to him in countless ways. There is also some truth to what many people have said about my kiddo not "wanting" to get it, because then he would have to do something about it.

 

[Lil]

Lil, I could be wrong, but I think your son knows you are a soft touch so he manipulates you. Unless he is insane or cognitively challenged, he knows what he is doing. My Autism Spectrum Disorders (Autism Spectrum Disorders (Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD))) son knows how to behave.

I don't disagree with this at all.

***

As for the alcohol - he literally turned 21 last week. This could, in part, be the novelty of being able to actually buy liquor. I am sure I bought more liquor when I was that age than I do now. How much he's drinking? I don't know. On the up side, he has a single, 2-liter bottle of soda to mix with, so we should be able to figure out how much fairly quickly and easily.

 

[GoingNorth]

What I did when job-hunting was make that my job. I'd jobhunt from 8AM to 5PM M-F (I worked in IT, so the hiring managers were in during business hours.)
A lot of what I did was networking, but there was some cold-calling at the like.

Admittedly, I wasn't dropping off resumes and going to cattle-calls when I was in management, but I did my share in my teens when looking for work.

I'd still set a curfew with bedtimes and wake up times. Make job-hunting his job. If nothing else, it'll start getting him used to having to be up at a certain time, do things at a certain time, etc.

And as an adult (it's impossible during adolescence) you can change your sleep schedule. I've managed to change from going to bed at 5AM and getting up at noon, to going to bed around midnight and getting up around 7:30. Took a long time, and I'm on medication,which I wouldn't recommend for your son at all, but it can be done.

 

[BusynMember]

On drinking, if you are an easy child, you can have a beer or two while visiting, but you buy it. If you have shown irresponsibility you cant drink in my house. I dont want to contribute to possible alcoholism in a child of mine who may be prone to it. Dont want that on my conscience or happening on my watch. To me, being 21 doesnt mean you can drink responsibly. If this were my kid, I'd do all I could under my roof to deter alcohol use. Its in his genes and he is not responsible. Lil, what you did, as a thriving young adult, has a different meaning and less risk to you than your d c. He is very far from how you were in every way. You got life, tried hard, and had good self control. Your son doesnt. He does what he does for his own reasons.

Jmo and two cents. Ive seen too many parents regret this in grown kids who become alcoholics.

 

[Lil]

I didn't pay for the whisky, he did.

I didn't buy the mixer knowing he was going to use it as such. It was a bottle of soda.

I'm not home in the days and can't stop him from doing a darn thing for that very reason.

I've talked about drinking until I'm blue in the face.

I've also gotten ZERO office done on a day set aside specifically for me to do certain things. I have to get off here for a few hours at least.

Thanks all. bbl

 

[GoingNorth]

SWOT, my mother has bought beer for me a couple of times. I finally asked her not to.

First of all, she has NO idea of my tastes, which are very picky (and expensive) and second of all, she always buys a six-pack, out of which I drink one bottle. The rest sits in her fridge and goes stale. Or, she nags me to take it home with me, so it sits in my fridge and goes stale.

Either that, or if I leave it there and my sister comes over, she drinks the rest of it,which upsets my mother.

 

[PonyGirl65]

Why is he afraid to be alone? Well, I think the answer to that is......Entitlement. He wants someone to care for him. He doesn't want to be alone. He knows (somewhere, secretly) that he can't take care of himself. (Yes, even tho was "was" doing that, before the fire....sorta) And instead of facing those fears and taking steps to change them (which he ALSO doesn't know how to do) he turns the fear outward.

Blam! You are in the direct line of fire.

And he sees your sympathy and desperation. And that scares him, too. Which just gels into anger. Cuz, anger is much easier to deal with than fear.

And.........this is all just my very humble opinion. I could be totally wrong.

I don't have the answers. I do think it's smart to detach, and try your best at modeling responsible behavior. Hard as it must be, I would do my best to NOT engage in any pity parties, OR in any shouting matches.

You guys are all in my thoughts!!

Peace

 

[RN0441]

We would let my son have a few beers here and there when he was not abusing pills (which he didn't do often but one too many times). He never was irresponsible with alcohol unless he was abusing benzos then he'd drink whiskey which he normally says he hates (and it makes him awful). And I know that probably sent a mixed message and I was dreading when he turned 21 because of the very reasons that Lil mentions. But I know that we would have not let him drink probably at all unless he was being successful at either school or work and we probably would have gone through a lot of bullshit to get to that point.

We're here for you Lil. It's all so damned hard.

 

[GoingNorth]

Benzos and alcohol are a very dangerous combination. If you are lucky, all that happens is you black out and do stupid and asinine things that you don't remember.

If not so lucky, you wake up in jail and have no idea how you got there.

If really unlucky, you don't wake up.

 

[Jabberwockey]

On the up side, he has a single, 2-liter bottle of soda to mix with, so we should be able to figure out how much fairly quickly and easily.

??? Two in the fridge and one on the counter.

 

[GoingNorth]

I think that's probably more "mixer" than you'd need for a 750ml bottle of liquor, but I'm not an expert.

I drink the sort of Scotch, Irish, and Bourbon I haven't been able to afford in years, and I don't use water or mixers.

You CAN ban drinking alcohol or being under the influence in your home,if you so choose, and are willing to put up with the flack you'll get.

 

[Lil]

??? Two in the fridge and one on the counter.

Only the Dr. Pepper was mixer. The Mountain Dew is for drinking.

 

[GoingNorth]

Ugh! Dr. Pepper is disgusting, anyways, but mixed with whiskey???

 

[New Leaf]

It's the bite the hand that feeds you syndrome. Attitude.

My two are like that. I don't know Lil and Jab, it makes no sense at all. I would acquiesce considering the situation and help, let them come home with trepidation, because I knew what was in store. Hoping maybe this time will be different, maybe mine would get their act together, be appreciative........but then faced with anger and well, it feels and looks like resentment. I would chock it off to depression over their situation........then it was.......
How the heck can someone ask for help then be so darn ornery when you help?

"Help me, f-u, help me. Now. Because you are supposed to. You are my parents. Oh, and by the way, I am an adult so I can do what I want, and I am miserable so I will treat you like , so, f- u, help me."
I would see them moody and sullen, their phone would beep, texting furiously, then outside laughing and chatting like nobodies business, back to cranky in the house, then out on the town. UGH!

"F- u, help me. You don't understand what I am going through. I am depressed........"

Not that they would actually say F-u, but they sure would act it at times.........

UGH.

Entitlement.

Stuck at 13, that's what I think. They are stuck at that hormonal "My parents are stupid, and my friends are everything........." age.
But they are not 13.

I remember the small voiced, shaky tearful phone calls that would melt my heart and bring me back to when they were younger. "Mom, can I come home........."
Rearranging the house and wondering if maybe this time they would successfully launch........because they were awful back home.........

I hope this is not the same for you and your son. I hope he gets it together and understands how much you have helped him.

I totally understand your helping, he is so young.
Lord knows I went through this. The revolving door.

But, there has to be respect and hopefully.......

Appreciation.

And movement in the right direction.........

Emphasis on getting things going.

It is all so hard. I hope it works out and your son will take this opportunity to get on his feet.

Fingers and everything crossed and prayers going up.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[GoingNorth]

Leafy, what you describe above sounds a LOT like borderline.