It never rains but it pours.

[Albatross]

He's 21. In my VERY humble opinion, if you are going to accept drinking in the house, you don't need to be monitoring his soft drink consumption. But if he makes request on his first day home for a mixer, I would be concerned, even if he's newly of age. That raised a huge red flag for me.

From experience I would say if you are going to try to discreetly figure out how much he's drinking from his mixer use, don't assume it's just the Dr. Pepper. We went thru OJ, then Sprite by the vat once my Difficult Child figured out you can't smell vodka.

 

[GoingNorth]

Albatross, that's very interesting: I don't drink vodka, but I use it to clean my vaping (e-cig) gear.

I find that it has a strong, penetrating, alcoholic scent that lingers for quite a while.

Now, this might be because I literally buy the cheapest, unflavored vodka that comes in pints, that I can get my hands on. It's basically grain spirits diluted to 40% alcohol (80 proof). Perhaps better vodkas might not have as much of an odor?

 

[New Leaf]

Leafy, what you describe above sounds a LOT like borderline.

Yes, I wonder about that GN. But, which came first, the chicken or the egg? I know now they were both experimenting in middle school, went through the teen angst, not over the top. The real crazy started around 18 or so. But, they were partiers......

The first night did NOT go well. Jabber gets home about 8:30 p.m. on Mondays. Our son basically didn't say anything to us most of the night. I tried, occasionally, to start a conversation about rules and plans. It didn't work. He basically sat and stared at his phone texting, texting, texting and getting more and more moody...until:

EXPLOSION!

This. Lots of memories from this.........yes, it sounds like borderline, but then again, if it is borderline, it is only borderline towards........me. Selective borderline? They are fine with their friends.......Hmmmmmm, borderline set off by parental pheromones?

I know, too the drug use and drinking plays a huge role. I found out Tornado was mixing crack with weed, and Rain....meth.
So, a lot of the mood swings were from being high, then not.

I think too, that d cs have a habit of stretching the limit with parents, no tippy toeing, let it all out. Then we begin walking on eggshells around them......... It can become a very upside down situation.
Whenever I go to visit Mom, I am tippy toeing around her rules and her expectations. She is used to living on her own, things have to be in place and orderly, right down to the sequence of turning off lights....LOL.....I don't buck her, because she is my Mom. She is older and set in her ways, and that is fine.

I keep wondering when these d cs will get it? My other kids are good, they understand respect. But my two? The world revolves around them and their friends. They are 36 and 27........

Waiting for the lightbulb to go off.

Hopefully this is not the case for you guys Lil and Jab. Your son is 21. There is so much out there about frontal lobe development......at 27. OUCH. Hopefully it will not take that long. I must say, he has tried. I think in your shoes, I would do the same (well, heck, I did), but I would NOT take any disrespect.
Looking back, this is what I would say......"I don't give a flying you know what about what you are feeling, kiddo, this is my house and as long as you are here, be respectful of your parents and rules. Otherwise, there is the door. "

There comes a point when enough is enough.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Lil]

I don't know.

I don't know anything but it's tiring and frustrating. His whole life is tiring and frustrating.

 

[New Leaf]

I don't know anything but it's tiring and frustrating. His whole life is tiring and frustrating.

I feel you, Hon.
It will be okay, one day at a time.......
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Lil]

I guess that last post was a little vague. lol I've spent over an hour and a half fighting a website to get his W2. He never got one, the company only does it electronically, and you can't even see a check stub on line. He's tried and tried and asked me to try. It's not him. I input ever piece of information accurately. It will NOT find him in the system. I literally tried 20+ times. I don't care that he doesn't work there anymore - he should be in the damn system! There's a "hotline" phone number - that requires you to leave a message and takes two business days to get back to you after you do that. What if you don't have a phone? Jeeze! I have never seen such an inefficient system - and I work for the government!

I can see why he gets frustrated to the point of wanting to throw things! It's April 12. He's going to have to file an extension for a return that may only get him $50 back.

Incidentally, this one isn't on him. He waited and waited for a W-2 and when one wasn't forthcoming, he asked the managers who told him to go thru the payroll website that ALSO wouldn't log him in! Jabber even tried that one. Finally he figured out that he had to go to this OTHER website, but it wouldn't log him in either. Ridiculous.

 

[pasajes4]

He was drinking before he was 21. He wanted a mixer as soon as he moved in. Some people are ok with an adult child drinking at home as long as they do not get drunk or behave badly as a result. I do not allow anyone including my mother, who loves her wine, to drink in my house. It is an individual decision.

 

[PonyGirl65]

But, there has to be respect and hopefully.......

Appreciation.

And if not genuine, then they should at least make an attempt to fake it! I mean AT THE VERY Least, they should NOT be all up in your face.

They should NEVER YELL IN YOUR PRESENCE, unless they are actually on fire. Or something.


But, I am just venting here. On your behalf!

Gaaaaaaa.

Peace

 

[Lil]

Some people are ok with an adult child drinking at home as long as they do not get drunk or behave badly as a result. I do not allow anyone including my mother, who loves her wine, to drink in my house. It is an individual decision.

I agree - and as I keep pointing out, he has not yet HAD a drink! He may not. He may. I don't know what will happen and neither does anyone else. Did I find it disturbing? Of course! Especially when it was whisky! I'd have less problem with the occasional beer. But I'm certainly not going to pretend I never had a drink at his age. Given his genetics, he should drink very much in moderation. He KNOWS this - he's been told a thousand times. Given his mood swings and depression, he should not drink at all.

He'll be told that again tonight.

But to be perfectly frank, I don't care what he does at the moment so long as he gets a job and gets out of my house as soon as that other apartment is open. I want this over. I know it was my idea, and I regret it already. I don't know why I expected him to be any different than he was 18 months ago, but I did and now I wish I'd never said he could come. I wish Jabber and I had not decided to stay in town and we'd moved away - FAR away.

I'm ready to do that "running away" thing we were talking about on The Watercooler.

 

[PonyGirl65]

I hear you, Lil! ((((BIG HUGS))))

I want this over. I know it was my idea, and I regret it already. I don't know why I expected him to be any different than he was 18 months ago, but I did and now I wish I'd never said he could come.

So, so very sorry my friend.

Well, how about this? You can use this situation as an opportunity to work on "acceptance"!? I am being a little tongue-in-cheek, but also a little bit serious too.

You did this. You regret it. You wish you never -
AAAAKKK! Can't go back and change it, sorry!
So now you must accept it. How can you do this?

We all come to acceptance in different ways. One thing I found consistent is: Quit fighting. No more "if only I" Quiet that part of your self-talk.

Next, well.....just try to do something nice for YOURSELF! Doesn't have to be a big thing. Candy bar. Favorite song. Long shower. Long walk. (No, not off a short pier)

And keep doing those nice things for Lil. Forgive yourself. You made a mistake. But you made it with the clearest of hearts, the finest of intentions.

And....it's already the middle of April

Peace

 

[RN0441]

I learned a new word yesterday in an article I read:

SELF-COMPASSION

I think so many of us have so much compassion for others and our Difficult Child's but forget to have it for ourselves!

 

[GoingNorth]

I was allowed to drink at home long before I was of legal age. Wine was part of religious holiday celebrations in my culture, and I was allowed to have a beer at family barbecues and the like.

If I have people over to dinner, I will buy wine that suits the meal. I don't usually buy beer. One thing I don't provide to my guests is coffee. I don't own a coffee maker and haven't since my husband died. I don't even know what coffee is good or bad, and I have no idea what makes a good coffee maker. I offer regular and decaf tea and usually have some herbal tea on hand.

My father didn't drink and my mother and her father were alcoholics, so I knew that was in my background so was careful.

I vape, not smoke and do not allow smoking ANYTHING in my apartment or immediately outside (it gets into my place) I strongly discourage any use of drugs on complex grounds, because that, if attached to me, will get me evicted from my apartment.

 

[Roxona]

I'm ready to do that "running away" thing we were talking about on The Watercooler.

Awww, Lil, I'm still right there with you.

I can hear the worry and frustration in your words. J is a lot like your son in that every so often I have to listen to his tirades about how this is unfair and how that is unfair. I try to be patient for the first 10 minutes, but after that I have to end the conversation because the entitlement is so deep, I need hip-waders!

I still feel like your son is still just trying for find himself and his independence and sort of failing at both. I think that's where the alcohol thing comes in. It's like he's trying to be in control of something in his life. J has never been big on alcohol. There have been times when I have offered him a drink during a nice dinner and he always turns me down. A few months after he got back from rehab, he and I were talking about how he doesn't like to be home much. He said he would love to just be able to sit down, have a beer and chat or watch tv. He's still underage at 20, but because I know he's not a big alcohol kind of guy, I offered to buy him a six pack...mostly because I'd rather have him at home than out hanging with the rude crew. Plus, I wanted to see what he would do. You know what? That six pack sat in my garage refrigerator for at least three months before it was all gone...and he hasn't asked for more. Same goes with the smoking. I don't allow smoking in my house, but told him he could smoke on the back patio. Problem was I'd find a million cigarette butts lying all over...so I bought one of those big ashtrays that you see at restaurants that have a bucket inside, so the wind can't blow the butts everywhere, and told him that he had to use it or he couldn't smoke in the backyard anymore. He uses it like clockwork now and has even gotten on his friends for not using it.

As for the temper tantrums your son is throwing, well...that's just what they are. Josh still tries that on me from time to time, but I have told him under no uncertain terms that if he wants to continue to live in my house, he better speak to me with respect or he will find another place to live. My husband has already kicked him out once for raging, so he knows we're serious.

Our boys are trying to be independent and have some control over their lives, and living at home with mom and dad isn't exactly being independent and is probably as frustrating for him as it is you. I say keep listening to him and help all positive efforts he is making to be on his own again. This is what I am trying to do with J. It isn't perfect, but he isn't using meth anymore, has a new job he seems to like, has found a girl that he is interested in, and is starting to look at his future for the first time ever. Right now he is acting like a some what normal teenager (even though he is 20), but I'll take it!

Peace and hugs to you and Jabber!

 

[pasajes4]

Lil, I have all of my winter clothes packed up and ready to go. I have put all unused furniture in storage or sold it. I am about to sell my living room furniture. I am at the point of walking away from this monstrosity of a house. I have the listing ready to go so that the air force base can rent it out as housing. The mere thought of having to live with my son again is literally making me physically ill. I can't do it. I know that he needs help. I get that things are harder for him. That does not excuse his horrible attitude and down right vile and evil mouth. I will not have things thrown at me because they do not suit him. He brought this on himself. I only have so much sympathy. His cognitive abilities were not impaired.

 

[TheWalrus]

Lil, I wanted to quote your entire post. This is my son to a T. I know for a fact that my son has not changed 1 iota. He is worse than ever. I know people will say it is because of the stroke yadda yadda. He was like this before the stroke. The difference is now he can try to blame his hideous behavior and demands for everything under the sun on the stroke. He is constantly playing on peoples sympathy to get anything he can out of anyone who has the misfortune of coming in contact with him. Lil, They don't change. They just twist it into something else. It is not that they can't change. They just don't see that they need to.

My daughter has not changed at all. If anything, the Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) has made her worse - like you said, she now has an "excuse" and says "she can't help it." She can help it. She can get drug counseling. She can get psychiatric counseling. And those were the two conditions we set before she could come to our home because we knew she was far beyond our capabilities if she was unwilling to want to get better and take steps to do so.

Lil, you said you don't think it is on purpose -that he truly "believes" that he is the wounded party. My daughter never, ever takes responsibility. She is always angry and moody and it is always someone's else's fault. Whether it is a purposeful "poor me" or her own disillusionment, there is nothing you can do until he takes responsibility for his own poor choices and the consequences of them. You can't live his consequences for him.

 

[Lil]

Well we had a brief discussion. I told him the rule is we don't shout. If he needs to talk we'll talk, but we won't do the screaming and slamming thing ever again. I literally, physically, cannot take it. I told him if he is ready to blow, he leaves the house until he's calm. He agreed. He also asked me to make him a counseling appointment. It's thru our insurance so I have to make the initial call. Tried to get him to do it, he won't. But he wants me to. That's something.

He did have a drink tonight. Just one. I asked him to put the whisky inn the cupboard because having it in his room was just disturbing. It felt odd; sneaky. He said he'd wanted to ask, but didn't know how we'd react. So it's put up and not hidden...which is healthier.

Tonight was Ok so far. Knock on wood.

 

[Albatross]

Now, this might be because I literally buy the cheapest, unflavored vodka that comes in pints, that I can get my hands on. It's basically grain spirits diluted to 40% alcohol (80 proof). Perhaps better vodkas might not have as much of an odor?

Vodka usually leaves less of an odor on the breath than other alcoholic beverages, even the cheap rotgut stuff.

The mere thought of having to live with my son again is literally making me physically ill. I can't do it. I know that he needs help. I get that things are harder for him. That does not excuse his horrible attitude and down right vile and evil mouth. I will not have things thrown at me because they do not suit him. He brought this on himself. I only have so much sympathy. His cognitive abilities were not impaired.

I am so sorry, Pasa. There have been times that I have thought, "If only Difficult Child could be temporarily incapacitated in some way, so that he would have no choice but to sober up and be surrounded by people who have his best interests at heart." I have even thought how nice it might be, for him and for us, to drop him in the middle of nowhere for, oh, about 6 or 8 months, where he couldn't drink and couldn't drug and had no choice but to be still and listen to his thoughts. But it likely wouldn't help. I think this is a classic case of "No matter where you go, there you are."

 

[Albatross]

He also asked me to make him a counseling appointment. It's thru our insurance so I have to make the initial call. Tried to get him to do it, he won't. But he wants me to. That's something.

I think this is good, Lil.

I asked him to put the whisky inn the cupboard because having it in his room was just disturbing. It felt odd; sneaky. He said he'd wanted to ask, but didn't know how we'd react. So it's put up and not hidden...which is healthier.

And this too. My response earlier has bothered me. I am hoping that his asking for the mixer was just his way of sounding you out about drinking in the house, though my gut tells me otherwise. Would say, just keep an eye out, but I'm sorry for how harsh I sounded.

 

[BusynMember]

I think he is drinking more than you know. Gut feeling from all you've said. Why such a strong desire to have a drink? Dunno...just my gut and really, really hope im wrong. I am NOT trying to be harsh. I'm concerned. I had no idea what my daughter was using or how much...its easy to dismiss when you want to. I am more concerned than anything. I think he may be drinking a lot, possibly for a while.

 

[Lil]

I think he is drinking more than you know. Gut feeling from all you've said. Why such a strong desire to have a drink? Dunno...just my gut and really, really hope im wrong. I am NOT trying to be harsh. I'm concerned. I had no idea what my daughter was using or how much...its easy to dismiss when you want to. I am more concerned than anything. I think he may be drinking a lot, possibly for a while.

Bottom line, if he is there's not a damn thing I can do about it, now is there? I'm not offended and I also am not trying to be harsh, but at the moment the drinking simply isn't an issue to be addressed. He knows we worry. He knows we aren't in favor. He's going to do it if he wants.

When we know there's an issue then we'll deal as best we can but right now I can only deal with one thing at a time.