It never rains but it pours.

[GoingNorth]

I've heard of parents doing that before. If that's what it takes. I don't quite understand the whole not wanting to work and move out thing.

It still kills me that I'm not able to work these days. I was dying to go to work. Had my first "paycheck" job at 14, saving up to buy a car at 16. Got a better job at 16 so I could save up to move in with my husband-to-be 3 days after I turned 18.

My niece and nephew were the same way and neither are NT. My niece also has MH issues.

He could be somaticizing, which would explain the niggling health issues. by the way,my back always hurt from standing on my feet all day. I still did it. Standing on my feet for years (IT when I started out was NOT a sedentary job)did not wreck my back. Falling off horses, a couple of auto accidents, and screwing up lifting my husband's mobility scooter out of our car did that for me.

I worked sick in ops ctrs and call ctrs, spread my germs around and caught whatever others were spreading around.

Your son needs to "nut up" and get over himself. He's a big boy now, pardon the crudity.

 

[Albatross]

I just read my last response and I do regret it. @Albatross and @SomewhereOutThere, you especially were trying to be helpful and I was harsh and rather rude. I am sorry.

Lil, I did not take your response as harsh nor rude, and I am sorry if I came across so strong. I think I am a *LITTLE* <ahem> sensitive on the alcohol issue.

I agree -- let today's problems be enough! Usually keeps our plates plenty full.

Hope the job hunt issue works out. Maybe you or Jabber set aside a day or a half to take him to places in person? Even places with online application processes appreciate applicants showing up and introducing themselves to the manager.

 

[Jabberwockey]

J was like that too. Luckily he is motivated to want money. I told him he needed to give me proof that he has applied to three places every day or I won't give him gas for his car.

He no longer has access to our vehicles so we have nothing to hold over his head about a certain amount of applications. Unfortunately, when he gets desperate enough for money he has no problems stealing from us. We kicked him out after he stole $700 cash. This is why I was iffy about letting him come back in the first place. I hate that I'm back to doing security checks every time I come home to make sure that nothing is missing.

Your son needs to "nut up" and get over himself. He's a big boy now, pardon the crudity.

LOL! Nothing to pardon here. Same basic thing I keep telling him.

For the record, he knows how to job hunt because I've told him how. My current job at the prison is to teach offenders who are about to release how to job hunt. He's been reminded of this several times. He has even spouted some of what we've told him back to us while complaining about the ex-girlfriend and friend. How quickly he forgets when its him doing the job hunting.

 

[Lil]

Your son needs to "nut up" and get over himself. He's a big boy now, pardon the crudity.

"Suck it up, Buttercup." has been a line often repeated in our house, along with "Grow a pair" and "You'll live".

 

[New Leaf]

"Grow a pair".

Hah! When I say that Hoku reminds me of something she read on FB....."Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina, those things can take a pounding."

Leafy

 

[GoingNorth]

Grow some ovaries...

 

[A dad]

He will manage to get a job eventually also I must point out that job searching in USA is different from where I live. Employers do not like to hire people that show initiative of certain kind they like employees that respect the rules and do what their told. And yet we have terrible productivity.

 

[Lil]

Hah! When I say that Hoku reminds me of something she read on FB....."Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina, those things can take a pounding."

Leafy

That's attributed to Betty White. Love her!

 

[BusynMember]

If he has Aspergers it IS an excuse. It's a serious disability on the autism spectrum and he'd qualify for many adult supports, including help to find a job and independent living. Autism of any kind isn't an excuse. It is a legitimate reason why some adult children can't launch or be independent without supports.
It is like telling somebody in a wheelchair that they are using their paralysis as a reason not to get up and walk. Yes, it is the same thing

A neurological disability can explain puzzling behavior and can be improved upon. Asders often do not age at the same rate as their peers, have low frustration levels, and don't know how to make friends. Or keep friends they do make. Untreated, they can remain clueless, become very depressed and hopeless, and can turn to substance abuse and other destructive behaviors to try to fit in anywhere. With anyonr. Usually life's losers are attracted to others who struggle. Some are addicts.

I am confused as to why such a diagnosis would not make you happy. It would explain a lot and there really are good resources out there. Trying to make a differently wired adult be like a typical adult is impossible for the adult, frustrating, depressing, and doesn't work. I speak as one who was not typical but whose parents wanted me to be.

Of course I could not do it and my mother died thinking my only problem was that I didn't try hard, but it was so untrue, although it probably looked that way. It broke my heart, almost my spirit.

Your son has Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) traits. It's up to you (and him) to decide to or not to pursue it further. He is not doing drugs, but he can't launch alone. Is it not possibly beneficial to have extensive testing to see if there is a neurological reason for this? Could be a path to deserved peace for you and your lovely husband and perhaps your precious son as well. I like to leave no stone unturned.
I also really like you and Jabber and just hate to see you too struggling, as well as your son who does not sound like a terrible young man. He sounds trapped, as though he doesn't know how to launch. Major anxiety too? That is also an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) trait.

Of course you have my wholehearted support whatever you feel is best. Just flush my post if you find it useless. Use what you may like, destroy the rest. I know he is VERY trying, regardless of why. A neuropsyc usually catches every glitch.
I

 

[Jabberwockey]

If he had Aspergers it IS an excuse. It's a serious disability

We understand this SWOT. He would use it as an excuse to not even try at all. "Why should I bother learning to deal with this. I have a condition!" would be his mantra. That's what we mean when we say him having a diagnosis would be used as an excuse. He would shut down completely and not even try.

As far as the lack of drug use??? That's debatable. No idea whether he is using or not but I'd bet good money that he's at least using recreationally.

 

[Lil]

If he had Aspergers it IS an excuse.

A disability can explain puzzling behavior and can be improved upon. Asters often do not age at the same rate as their peets, have low frustration levels, and don't know how to make froends. Untreated, they can remain cluelrss, become very depressed and hopeless, and can turn to substance abuse and other destructive behaviors to try to fit in anywhere. With anyonr. Usually life's loses are attracted to others whobstruggle.

I am confused as to why such a diagnosis would not make you happt. It would explain a lot and there really are good resources out tjere.

Is it not beneficial to have extensive testing to see if there a reason for this?

Oh I'm very aware that there are benefits to knowing for sure. Sure there are limitations, but, as you've pointed out many times, your son is doing quite well and is kind and hard-working.

IF our son would see a diagnosis as a good thing, as something that would allow him to access resources, if he could learn to deal with his problems, I wouldn't be happy, I'd be THRILLED.

But I don't believe that ours would try to overcome his disabilities - he'd simply say, "See. I can't help it so I may as well not even try." That's his attitude. It's the way he is. I truly believe that it would be worse for him than better.

But it doesn't matter, because to even suggest to him that he has an actual medical problem (other than the bad back) and the fight is on. It becomes, "You think I'm broken. You think there's something WRONG with me!"

 

[in a daze]

Either way though, I'm actually worried that if he were to go to a neuropsychologist, and get diagnosed as Aspie or something, he'd use that as an excuse for his "This is just how it is, I can't help it".

That's true. But if he had an actual diagnosis, maybe he'd be eligible for some services from the state. And what if there is something there that could actually be treated with a medication, or therapy? And some diagnoses have actually specific types of therapy that have been vetted. So if he has a diagnosis, and there is medication and therapy to treat this diagnosis, and he refuses to go along with it, that is something else that you can hold over his head in return for your support.

Although it's not always as logical and easy as I laid out here. Tell me about it, we've been going through this with our son for 13 years. But it's a start.

 

[GoingNorth]

My thinking is that there are things that many High Functioning Autistics excel at. You can still have high expectations towards those ends, which aptitude testing would show.

My aptitude testing done in the 70s showed a weakness in math while still showing strength in engineering. My compromise was to go into IT.

 

[Jabberwockey]

So if he has a diagnosis, and there is medication and therapy to treat this diagnosis, and he refuses to go along with it, that is something else that you can hold over his head in return for your support.

She isn't joking about how he reacts to ANY suggestion that he has mental health problems. I'm actually quite surprised that he didn't say anything when Lil mentioned anger management classes.

 

[Lil]

Is it not possibly beneficial to have extensive testing to see if there is a neurological reason for this? Could be a path to deserved peace for you and your lovely husband and perhaps your precious son as well.

That's true. But if he had an actual diagnosis, maybe he'd be eligible for some services from the state. And what if there is something there that could actually be treated with a medication, or therapy?

My thinking is that there are things that many High Functioning Autistics excel at. You can still have high expectations towards those ends, which aptitude testing would show.

Ladies, we've discussed this before. I'd LOVE for him to get himself tested and find out. My biggest regret of my LIFE is that I didn't have him tested as a child. But he takes everything SO personally. To be able to get him to go...it would be a miracle. AND if he did, I truly believe he would see it as some sort of personal slight, an insult. I don't know where he gets this attitude! I certainly don't have it and Jabber doesn't either.

Every time he sees any counselor, I PRAY they'll make that suggestion...and that I'm wrong as to his reaction to it, but that's been his reaction to the suggestion that he have any type of mental issue.

 

[GoingNorth]

That's a damned shame. I knew I had MH problems by the time I was in elementary school. Was seeing a psychiatrist back thenn as well. The problem was that the medications available at the time were not medications I could tolerate. All they did was sedate me into a drooling lump (Thorazine anyone?) And, I could seperate the MH issues from the "whatever it was" so many family members had (Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)).

I knew my dad was "manic depressive" and by the time I was 15 and out of control, I realized I probably was as well.

But, I had a huge distrust of counselors that came from a counselor at the JCC who told my parents EVERYTHING that took place during our sessions, word for word.

 

[BusynMember]

Well...his personality is still that. I get your point. But there opportunities and help out there if he does have challenges. Right now.hes on his own. MAYBE HE'D TRY HARDER WITH SUPPORTS? The support folks never gave my son the option of not trying so he did!

Gn, not all special needs people can use their strengths to be productive. The work world was a scary consistent wash for me in spite of superior verbal skills. I made too many errors, a cardinal sin at work.
I had executive function issues too, which impede things and not everybody, but MANY with ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), battle that too. Not everyone is equally able. If so, we'd all succeed. It's no fun feeling stupid. And...that is how many of us feel, even if our IQ says otherwise...we do not feel up to our IQ. When you don't succeed, an I Q just mocks.
Gained much knowledge about myself from neuropsycologists. Plain therapists...useless.

 

[Albatross]

You and Jabber know him best.

But I think of my daughter, who struggled and struggled in school, until we had her tested in 7th grade and she was diagnosed with a very specific learning disability. Finding out what was "wrong" with her meant developing ways to compensate and she went from failing to excelling.

Then again, when I set up neuropsychiatric testing for my son, he went AWOL, for 3 months...

Still, might be something worth considering.

There ya go Lil! Another big thing for consideration!

 

[Lil]

Then again, when I set up neuropsychiatric testing for my son, he went AWOL, for 3 months...

And this would be more what we'd experience. Actually, I can't even imagine the tantrum that would result - he would be so LIVID if we were to suggest this. I'm serious...he would go berserk! The last time I suggested he see someone for depression it was "Do you really think I'm that BROKEN?" His very words! To suggest he has an autism disorder - I can't even imagine!

I'm rather shocked that he agreed to counseling this time when I suggested it for anger management. Because I didn't think he was serious, I waited until the next day and asked him when he was calm, he said he agreed he needed someone to just vent to who he could tell everything.

That's better I could even hope for! This is the closest he's ever gotten to agreeing he has issues.

You see, if he has a problem, that means HE has a problem. It's not that everyone else is wrong and he's right...which is what he wants to believe. Heck, he quit the last counselor because she told him that maybe if everyone else says what he's doing is wrong...then what he's doing IS wrong? He was done with her.

So you see folks, it's not that WE'RE resistant to this. It's that we've TRIED to get him to see someone, even just a counselor, and at best he's agreed because we wanted him to do it...but mostly he's become angry and refused and the suggestion that something is wrong with HIM just made things worse.

 

[BusynMember]

Your son will not disappear for any reason. He is too attached to you. Has he ever disappeared?

He IS broken he can't take of himself at all. If he asks that again maybe you can temper it but be honest. "I don't like the word broken. I think you need help, like many other people do. Life can be hard. A fresh perspective can't hurt. No, I don't think you are crazy, by the way."