It never rains but it pours.

[in a daze]

Maybe this would be useful when you guys try to talk to him.

When I was in college/nursing school we were taught a technique to use when we talked to a patient, called reflection. You reflect back the patient's words to them or you paraphrase what he has just said. This way the other person feels validated.

For example...I had a fight with xx and I feel terrible

You: You had a fight with xx

Yes, let me tell you what she did, etc.

You: That must have made you feel terrible

Yes....

So this list of things to say might be useful that I found in the archives. I had a similar list that I used to carry around from Parents Anonymous.

And very important...don't forget the wine before you talk to him!

(quote)


PonyGirl brought this up on Barbara's thread and I thought it might be a good idea for all of us to brainstorm together. Awhile ago I suggested some phrases that I had to write down and keep by the phone for when Rob called to whine, beg, or whatever. Since I'm not a quick thinker, it really helped me to have them right there to read from. Basically, these phrases acknowledge their pain or situation but don't get us involved in it.

"Well, I'm sure you'll work it out."

"That sounds like an interesting idea."

"Good for you, honey!"

"How are you handling that?"

"How does he/she feel?"

"I'll need to talk to your dad/guru/dog about that."

"I don't have an answer right now. I'll do some research."

"Sorry, I'm on my way out the door right now and can't talk!"

"I need some time to think about that. I'll get back to you."

"That must make you feel good."

"That must make you feel bad."

"How does that make you feel?"

"What's your opinion?"

"I'm so sorry, honey."

What suggestions do you guys have? Remember, they are phrases to acknowledge but not engage. And sometimes you just need to buy time before you give an answer.

Of course, it might help to have a bottle of wine near the phone, too.

Suz

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/com...ings-to-say-when-detaching.685/#ixzz45rQFQ0f2

 

[savior no more]

He doesn't have a job and hasn't had. He lived with his dad before this. He's about 30 years old and has no car, no job, no credit, no money no ... anything really.

My son sounds a lot like yours. My son has misplaced loyalty to older, ne'er do wells who attach to him because he has some parents who are still around and trying to provide guidance and love. I believe this is part of learning who is there for you in troubling times - your family - however they probably are more emotionally adolescent and in that phase of forming bonds beyond the family and are forming wrong attachments. Hopefully with maturity he can see it for what it is worth.

 

[savior no more]

At least the buddy found some woman friend to stay with, so he's not an issue.

On to finding a new person to use.

 

[Jabberwockey]

On to finding a new person to use.

Apparently he has either already been kicked out or is about to be kicked out.

When I was in college/nursing school we were taught a technique to use when we talked to a patient, called reflection.

Motivational Interviewing is what Corrections calls the technique. It helps, but our son is a hard one to talk to. "I don't know" tends to be his go to phrase.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Motivational Interviewing is what Corrections calls the technique. It helps, but our son is a hard one to talk to. "I don't know" tends to be his go to phrase.

These techniques work best with neuro-typical people.

 

[BusynMember]

Theres a reason the mooch burned all his bridges and is close to getting booted again. Glad hes not with you. This moocher is somebody you dont need and your son is better off without.

By the description of lils conversation with son, he is EXTREMELY immature. I never had such a roundabout, immature conversation with any of my kids at 21. Something just doesnt sound right. Hoping he is hired at this job and can keep it. Would be such a great start. Really want to see you all hapoy...you are such nice people.

 

[Lil]

Of course, it might help to have a bottle of wine near the phone, too.

LOL - Well that might help - but he usually calls me at work and I think the great state of Missouri might not take very kindly to their attorneys drinking on the job.


Actually, I've been here 21 years. About six years ago I learned that our personnel code of conduct didn't prohibit drinking, only being intoxicated. Only a few months later they changed it to being "under the influence" which was defined as "any amount". All those years I could have been having a glass of wine with my lunch, wasted.

By the description of lils conversation with son, he is EXTREMELY immature.

YES! Very! I'd say he is one of the most immature 21 year olds I've ever known. And when he was 11 or so, we praised him for his maturity.

 

[Jabberwockey]

These techniques work best with neuro-typical people.

Actually, they are designed to work on anyone. The main point is to keep asking open ended questions and encouraging them to talk by repeating back what they say starting with something like "So what you're telling me is...". Its all about getting someone who doesn't want to speak to actually talk to you.

By the description of lils conversation with son, he is EXTREMELY immature.

And doesn't handle stress well either. Many times he made plans to go out with friends and the friends backed out. Instead of simply making new plans he blew up about how unreliable they were and that his whole day was shot. We tried to explain to him to just make new plans. For results, see previous conversation about powdered cheese.

 

[Zone Defense]

LOL - Well that might help - but he usually calls me at work and I think the great state of Missouri might not take very kindly to their attorneys drinking on the job

Our great state of Missouri doesn't see most of my son's crimes as actual crimes. So who knows, you just may be able to have that glass of wine

Not helpful I know, but I tend to try to find humor in nearly every situation.

 

[Roxona]

Took a few days off to actually get something done around the house, so just catching up while I have a few moments alone.

How do we make him understand that we're not telling him this because we want to make him freak out. We want the opposite, but I can see him panicking, because, "I only have three or four weeks and then I'll be homeless again because you'll kick me out!" That's exactly what I expect him to say or think.

I try to look for things I can use as a "tool" to help make my point look like it isn't really "my" point. Does he still have a lease agreement even though he will be moving into a new apartment, or is the old lease agreement void? This could be an excellent tool to motivate him to understanding that his current living arrangement is only temporary, and that he needs to get on the stick and look for a job.

that's how he reacts to spilling dry cheese! THAT is all it takes to send him into a cursing, shouting fit! Imagine how he reacts to actually traumatic things! This is why there's no talking to him.

So...how exactly do you have a conversation with someone who acts like that?

J is this way all the time. My husband says it's a "young male with too much testosterone" kinda thing. J will be up one moment and down the next. He can be unbearable to be around when he gets this way. When he's like this, I use In a Daze's technique, except with a margarita!

 

[GoingNorth]

"Young male with too much testosterone" is a cop-out and sexist against young males.

I've been around a LOT of young males. In fact, at that age, most of my friends were young males. Many of whom abused drugs. I did NOT see (perhaps because I wouldn't tolerate it around me) that type of over-reaction and explosiveness in the young men I chose to hang around with.

Impulsiveness and stupidity, yes. Overreaction and misguided, explosive anger, NO!

 

[Lil]

Newest annoyance is he sleeps constantly. I suppose that's better than exploding, but still annoying. He eats, sleeps and that's about it. Cricket isn't hiring. Getting him to look elsewhere when he's depressed. Ugh.

He did like the counselor. Said it went well and he has another appointment.

But the sleeping is troubling.
.

 

[GoingNorth]

Could be depression. Could be avoidance. Combined with the explosive behavior beforehand, could be coming down from a stimulant run, especially if he's taken something to ease the "comedown" which is vile on all abused stims, but worst on meth

Excessive MDMA/Ecstacy use can also cause a nasty comedown, long lasting depression, and either excessive or disturbed sleep.

Make a 12 unit urine panel a condition of his staying with you.

 

[BusynMember]

I still think it sounds like drugs of some sort. At least when I was in psyche hospital, the depressives I hung around with wanted to sleep, but we all had insomnia. All. We only slept, and then sometimes a lot, after we got psychiatric medications. Depression causes body rhythms to change as in eating and sleeping.

I truly think more is going on, although he is very puzzling so who knows for sure? When my daughter was on drugs she fell asleep like the dead for hours.

 

[Childofmine]

Lil, I remember on this forum that one thing someone did when their Difficult Child just wanted to sleep all day and not look for work was this: When you leave the house to go to work, he has to leave the house and can't come home until you do.

I thought that was brilliant and wished I had thought of it while Difficult Child was here and doing the same thing.

Might be something to consider. Hang in there!

 

[Jabberwockey]

Make a 12 unit urine panel a condition of his staying with you.

I thought that was brilliant and wished I had thought of it while Difficult Child was here and doing the same thing.

Might be something to consider. Hang in there!

As he hasnt done anything wrong yet other than his initial outburst, it doesnt really seem fair to start tacking on conditions now. Personally I would have put the leave when we do condition in place right away but this happened kinda fast and Lil and I never really got a chance to sit down and discuss all of this first.

 

[Lil]

It is remotely possible that this sleeping is some kind of reaction to just being relaxed for the first time in ages. He has nothing to worry about; good food and plenty of it; he's been eating non-stop. No one depending on him. He's also bored and a bit depressed. It's possible...who knows?

He's had no money for drugs.

Hoping he starts worrying about that job soon.

 

[in a daze]

LOL - Well that might help - but he usually calls me at work and I think the great state of Missouri might not take very kindly to their attorneys drinking on the job.


Actually, I've been here 21 years. About six years ago I learned that our personnel code of conduct didn't prohibit drinking, only being intoxicated. Only a few months later they changed it to being "under the influence" which was defined as "any amount". All those years I could have been having a glass of wine with my lunch, wasted.

So...a few years ago I told one of my clinical coordinators that I simply had to have the day after the south side Irish parade off (I usually have a party).

So ever since then, we have this running joke about me being an alcoholic. (Kind of stereotypical, since I'm Irish)

I'll be standing in the hallway with my coffee.

"What's in that mug?"

"I need a little something to help me survive in this place"

Or I'll be in the break room.

"What are you doing?"

"Having a cocktail, come join me!"

 

[Lil]

Well here's a twist; anyone remember the J's? Son had 3 friends all with J names. J-1 was an okay guy. J-2 was the one that followed him to the homeless shelter. J-3 was a lovely fella <sarcasm> who we were pretty sure sold pot (thankfully he seems to be gone). Well J-2 had gone to another state about a year ago to live with his mom. He's back.

The twist is, he seems to have matured quite a bit. He's living with his grandparents, working part-time, planning on getting a second job and going back to school for his GED. In fact, our son is talking about seeing about getting on at the same employer for the part-time job - it's holding a sign by the side of the road for a mobile phone company, but it's $8 an hour and will at least be something - so long as he looks for another job on his days off.

So yeah, J is back. Hmm.

 

[AppleCori]

Well, any job is better than none!

HAs Cricket Wireless ever called back?