The truth comes out...maybe

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
And yeah, it is sobering to look back like that, at old emails or letters, etc. I still keep a list called "Thinking of Getting Involved? Read This First!"
I too have kept a folder, it's about 3 inches thick. It contains the story of my difficult child. It's full of reports from counselors, plus the bills associated with them, arrest reports, court reports, reports from school, photos of the damage he did to my home, etc....
Love your idea about "thinking of getting involved, read this"
There have been times over the years when difficult child has claimed that he was never that much of a problem and I so wanted to give him that folder but knowing him he would have an excuse or just blame me.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
"If you would just listen to me, you would understand why I need or am right about xyz. " "Mom, mom, I need you to bring me 20 dollars right now. If you don't bring it, I will die, starve, be late, get an 'f', can't get home." I have these recorded on my phone. I just ask him if I should hit re-play. He gets mad and hangs up.
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Lil, I'm just catching up with this thread. I am sorry. My son also shoplifted from Wal-Mart with other homeless people---this was his latest act against society and the reason he was arrested the last time. He has been out of jail from that one since the end of June. He is banned from Wal-Mart as part of his probation. I heard all of the "stuff" too, I didn't do it, I wasn't going to steal anything, I wasn't even out the door, etc.

Then I went to the County offices and read the arrest report, and they had the cash register receipt attached to it. It was a bunch of food, beer and some of X-box-type of device. About $96 worth.

This was his 8th or 9th time in jail so I was nearly immune to all of the talk.

Today, Lil, my son has multiple misdemeanors and two felonies for selling drugs, and he also has two jobs. They can get a job after having a record.

I don't have any great words of wisdom here. It doesn't make any sense and it's just stupid and awful and painful, but it is reality.

They will do the stupid stuff until they stop doing the stupid stuff and not one minute sooner. Nothing we can do or will do will change that. And they have to FEEL the consequences of what they are doing before they will have any motivation to stop.

So....the more you can let it all go, and believe me, I know how hard it is at the very beginning, the better off you will be.

I'm just sorry.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Child I don't know if your post made me feel better or worse. :unsure:

I must admit to a morbid curiosity. He wouldn't actually say much when I talked to him...it was like pulling teeth to even get him to tell me what day it was he got arrested. I basically just wanted a time-line; things like that bug me. He acted like he didn't even know, kept asking me why it mattered, stuff like that. Literally, once he told me he didn't remember when it happened! So I just actually want to know. I want to know if the video shows him on lookout. I want to know if he actually had any merchandise on him. Mostly, I want to know if he was as STUPID as most criminals and gave a statement. When he said he was going to plead guilty I told him he would have to be an absolute idiot to do so if he wasn't. He said, "Well, that's not what I got from all the cops screaming at me."

Seriously, I'm a lawyer. He's watched hundreds of cop shows over the year. I'm sure at some time he heard me say only an idiot talks to the cops instead of demanding a lawyer. When arrested, you say FOUR words: I want a lawyer. The only alternative that is acceptable is: I want a phone call...so I can arrange for a lawyer.

It bugs the daylights out of me to not know. I may have to go see if they'll let me see the police report. I can use the lawyer angle if I have to. Then again, I keep thinking about curiosity and cats. :(
 

2much2recover

Well-Known Member
He wouldn't actually say much when I talked to him...it was like pulling teeth to even get him to tell me what day it was he got arrested. I basically just wanted a time-line; things like that bug me. He acted like he didn't even know, kept asking me why it mattered, stuff like that. Literally, once he told me he didn't remember when it happened!
So in your heart you know what this means right? Based on past behavior? He doesn't "remember" or want to tell you more because there IS more to the story that he is telling you.
 

dstc_99

Well-Known Member
Lil remember what they say about "the Devil you know being better the the Devil you don't?" I also have that morbid curiosity to know the basic answers. It would be very hard for me to not want to know what the police report said. The main reason would be because I hate to be made to feel a fool. I am a firm believer that it is easier to fight the Devil you know. Plus I don't get played nearly as badly when I know what I am up against.

This is one time where knowing wont be enabling. You aren't messing around in his life you are simply reading a report he will never know you read unless you tell him. Having the information will help you decide what you want to do to support this situation.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Well, just called the PD and all it takes to get a copy of the report is $5 cash. They have the report finalized so I will be picking a copy up after work today. They didn't even ask why I wanted it.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Scent of Cedar * said: ↑
So...were there times when he was a child when money bought him access to some quality-of-life thing you felt he needed?


I'm not sure what you mean. Everything costs
money and the fact is, he didn't want for anything

It's the sense of entitlement behind what your son wrote, Lil. Somewhere in his mind, this statement is fully justified. He is writing to you and so, the statement is tailor-made to elicit a particular response in you. That is why I told the story about how our difficult child daughter justified her position to husband.

difficult child daughter's conversation was tailored to what she knew about the way her father loves her and how that works. It's like the levers to his wallet, to his attention, to his protectiveness, were obvious to her. Because I don't have those same underlying issues husband does, difficult child daughter has not used that exact technique on me. She has undoubtedly used others but, because those keys are wrapped up in the way I love her, I can't see them, anymore than husband could see what was happening that day at the mechanic's.

Your son may not be doing that same thing, but the conversation he chose to have with you makes no objective sense without a detailed understanding of how the way you love him works.

To me, it looks that way.

I am wondering whether, if you could understand the meaning under the words your son used, if this might be a key to how your difficult child is thinking about or justifying his situation and actions to himself. If you could figure out how he believes happiness for him is supposed to look, then maybe you could reach that place in him where something is telling him what he is doing is okay.

And change it.

Maybe.

It's like he is saying, "I could be happy, I am someone who should be happy. To me, happy is when I can use (your) car and have pocket money (from you) and friends (you don't like). And yet, this is a person provided with role models for the development of a good work ethic, a person whose parents work very hard, and have always worked very hard. I know you love to cook, so I know the home fires are burning clear and bright at your and Jabber's house. I know Jabber posted something about how he would respond if his sister were treated a certain way.

So I know a little about how life and decency and male protectiveness were presented to your difficult child, too.

Given these things that I think I know about his upbringing, your difficult child's justifications for what he is doing are totally off the wall and yet, he thinks they will work, he thinks he has said something of value, some explanatory thing.

Somehow, at least in the way I am interpreting the tone in his message, he seems to believe this idea of having access to a car (not providing his own car) and pocket money (again, not his own money) is the criteria for success.

Yet, the family dynamic revolves around independence and family values.

That's what I meant.

It seems to me there is a key here.

Cedar

You definitely need to learn everything about the stealing from WalMart. For your own understanding of how your son tells the truth.

I would want to know those things. I never, ever, believe my kids were wrong. Those times when things were undeniably wrong develop a kind of mist over time. That is why you need to know, I think.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Given these things that I think I know about his upbringing, your difficult child's justifications for what he is doing are totally off the wall and yet, he thinks they will work, he thinks he has said something of value, some explanatory thing.
Somehow, at least in the way I am interpreting the tone in his message, he seems to believe this idea of having access to a car (not providing his own car) and pocket money (again, not his own money) is the criteria for success.
Yet, the family dynamic revolves around independence and family values.

I agree. He has always seemed to feel entitled. It's as though we are responsible for making him happy. He's truly never been a "happy" person. I want him to be. I've told him I want him to be happy. But I've also told him that the only one who can make him happy is HIM. But really, that seems to mean nothing to him. He doesn't understand it. I don't think he knows how to be a happy, or even contented, person and thinks "things" or substances will do the trick. His argument for getting high has been, "I just want to feel happy, just for a little while." He has said those exact words. It's one reason why we've tried to get him in counseling...which he blew off. I think his idea of how a normal human being should "feel" is skewed. He was on Prozac for a while...he wouldn't take it. He said it made him feel nothing and being miserable was better than being numb.

He clearly has problems. I just don't know what to do or suggest. No suggestion or advice has ever been taken by him. At best it's ignored. At worse it's treated with contempt.

Jabber will get the police report tonight...so I guess we'll see then.
 
Learning to be content. I love that idea. husband and I made that as a very real mindset a few years ago. We moved to a small home and took only what we needed. Now if the consumerism bug gets us, we have to think where are we going to put that. That alone, gives us a few moments to think what is a need and what is a want.(Sometimes a want will win out.) Anyway, I digress. Learning to be content is very tough now a days with so much pushed at us, that we need or deserve.
If your not content with your circumstances then change them. Don't get bogged down in them and if you can't be bothered to change them then you mustn't want it enough. So then be content and quit whining. difficult child's sheesh.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Learning to be content. I love that idea. husband and I made that as a very real mindset a few years ago. We moved to a small home and took only what we needed. Now if the consumerism bug gets us, we have to think where are we going to put that. That alone, gives us a few moments to think what is a need and what is a want.(Sometimes a want will win out.) Anyway, I digress. Learning to be content is very tough now a days with so much pushed at us, that we need or deserve.
If your not content with your circumstances then change them. Don't get bogged down in them and if you can't be bothered to change them then you mustn't want it enough. So then be content and quit whining. difficult child's sheesh.
I love this post.
I am trying to become a minimalist. It does bring peace and contentment. Hard to explain.
 

AppleCori

Well-Known Member
A view from the other side of the fence.

I have never had to parent a difficult child.

All my kids were/are pcs.

But I don't really think I was THAT kind of mom. And their dad certainly was not THAT kind of dad.

What started out good was all too soon overshadowed by mental illness. My X, their dad, would struggle with the illness, do better, then go downhill even farther.

And my kids were negatively affected.

But they didn't let it stop them.

My twins graduated high school with all As. They studied on their own and took the Pharmacy Tech test and passed it the first time around and got jobs. They went to college by taking out loans, grants, etc. Became Resident Assistants to pay their room and board. Were managers of their lab during grad school. Finished their Bachelors and Masters in six years while working, surgeries (one had one surgery, other one had two) for their long term health issues, mental health issues, paying their own bills. They now have great jobs and lives.

And my son. His dad didn't want another child, coming less than two years after the twins. He was a dream child: sweet, cute, gifted IQ, gifted athelete, scholar, started college at 16 for math and physics. wise beyond his years.
Never got much attention from his father. He didn't go to his sports events, didn't once throw a ball with him (but I did) didn't teach him how to be a man.

But he figured it out anyway.

And, stalwart soldier that he is, he's never complained.

And he checks up on his dad to make sure he is doing okay. He keeps in touch despite everything.

And he doesn't complain. And he probably has a right to. But he doesn't.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
He doesn't understand it. I don't think he knows how to be a happy, or even contented, person and thinks "things" or substances will do the trick.
Lil,

I wonder if he even knows what "happy" is?

And I'm not sure "happy" is the right word, anyway. Someone else used "contentment".

He wants "happy", or rather whatever his understanding of "happy" is. But he's chasing butterflies and rainbows.

Butterflies only come to see you when you are being still - not when you are chasing them.
And rainbows come after storms.

Both are worth having... but both have more to do with peace and contentment than "happy".
 

2much2recover

Well-Known Member
That's so messed up. It's what I thought therapy would help with...but so far he's not gotten anything out of therapy and I don't think he understands it's purpose.
Yes, we paid for therapy too...........and a lot of them were missed appointments too. You can not get help if A. you won't ask for help or B you don't think there is anything wrong with you!
 
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