Daughter 24 stole from me

[Copabanana]

I pray for new beginnings for her. And she will overcome this for I do not want this to be her destiny . I would hate for this to define who she is.

I do not think this will define her. She is already hard at work to recoup the money.

All of those years before and now she was and is a million different things beyond this. There must have been an empty space in her character from which she acted from, or as others have surmised an addiction of some sort took over. We do not know. But she will, if she wants, overcome this by trying to understand and to change, and to do what she must to build herself or better herself.

I remember many years ago something that happened to me. My grandfather died in 1983. The will left his estate in 3 parts to my mother, sister and I. My mother took all of the money, and said that my grandfather changed his mind.

It is in my mind because today I found copies of his will.

My mother dug in and insisted all of the estate was hers. I was very hurt. It was not about the money. It was about having a mother who put herself first, second and third. I was about to enter graduate school. I asked my mother if she would help me at all (with my money.) She as if said no. It would be many years before I would forgive her or speak with her. I never forgot.

Because there is a difference between what happened with your daughter and that which happened with my mother. With your daughter, I believe this is an aberration. I think you do too.

With my mother it was the main event. The reason it hurt so bad is that I was forced to face this was my mother. She chose to define herself by this act. The money was more important than her daughters. She preferred to pay the price and lose us, rather than do the right thing.

She could never say she was sorry, although I know she felt bad. But I cannot say she regretted it. I believe she would have done it over and over again if she had a chance.

Your daughter will not ever do such a thing again. I believe that.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

I do not agree with New Leaf and Albatross. I believe she did not think about the impact to you. I believe she had the impulse to take the money and she did. It might have happened that she believed there was no risk because she would pay it back before you knew. It may have entered her mind that you would not press charges if you found out.

My sister arranged that my mother's house be robbed, despite having no rightful power to enter her home, after she died. She felt entitled. She probably knew I would take no action against her.

I felt victimized. Even though I knew she could get into the house. I chose to not change the locks. Why I did that, is complicated even to me.

meaning so little to her I think is what hurts most.

You are making this up. This has no relation to what happened. She may have taken your money but she did not mean to hurt you. She just wanted the money. There was no intent to hurt.

I do not know how to explain it better.

Think about finding $10000 in the street. You pick it up. It belonged to somebody who is sick that they lost it. When you put it in your purse, the 10k, your intention is not to hurt the person who lost they money. Your intention was only to pocket the money.

I do not believe it was any different for your daughter.
While we wish she would have stopped to think about the consequences and the ramifications, she did not.

That self gratification over powers the love for your mother!!!

You are torturing yourself here. She does not put (or did not) the two things together. Self-gratification, yes. Love for her mother, yes.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

How to these adult children turn into whatever they are now?How can they steal and destroy from the people who would give their owns life's for them?

There are dozens of us here, who are active. Each of us has a slightly different story.

My child, for example, has not stolen. He has taken a few things. It hurt me terribly, even though they were not big things. The betrayal hurt me. Let me explain how I felt. Maybe it will enable me to better understand your situation.

I felt as you do. That there was this vast quantity of love I have for him, years and years of devotion. How could he take a Kindle? How could he defy my proscription to not bring marijuana to my house, our house?

But, at the crux of my pain of these years in this kind of sense of betrayal. How did it turn out like this with so much love for so long? It just did not compute. I felt I did not deserve it.

But our kids do not think like this. They do love us, but they do not see it in terms of tit for tat. They want to do what they want to do. And they love us. They are on completely separate tracks for them.

COPA

 

[Devasted Mom]

I do not think this will define her. She is already hard at work to recoup the money.

All of those years before and now she was and is a million different things beyond this. There must have been an empty space in her character from which she acted from, or as others have surmised an addiction of some sort took over. We do not know. But she will, if she wants, overcome this by trying to understand and to change, and to do what she must to build herself or better herself.

I remember many years ago something that happened to me. My grandfather died in 1983. The will left his estate in 3 parts to my mother, sister and I. My mother took all of the money, and said that my grandfather changed his mind.

It is in my mind because today I found copies of his will.

My mother dug in and insisted all of the estate was hers. I was very hurt. It was not about the money. It was about having a mother who put herself first, second and third. I was about to enter graduate school. I asked my mother if she would help me at all (with my money.) She as if said no. It would be many years before I would forgive her or speak with her. I never forgot.

Because there is a difference between what happened with your daughter and that which happened with my mother. With your daughter, I believe this is an aberration. I think you do too.

With my mother it was the main event. The reason it hurt so bad is that I was forced to face this was my mother. She chose to define herself by this act. The money was more important than her daughters. She preferred to pay the price and lose us, rather than do the right thing.

She could never say she was sorry, although I know she felt bad. But I cannot say she regretted it. I believe she would have done it over and over again if she had a chance.

Your daughter will not ever do such a thing again. I believe that.

COPA

Yes I am getting the point you are making Yes I do believe for my daughter this was an aberration. Yes I am definitely torturing myself. However I have always believed there is an action then there is a consequence. I am unfamiliar with ok you stole my money but didn't intent to hurt me. Hard to separate the two for me. I am so sorry for the experience you had to indure with your mother. Yet you have an equation for each situation which amazes me. You take each and every situation apart piece by piece and then are able to give a perspective that makes so much sense to me.

 

[Devasted Mom]

There are dozens of us here, who are active. Each of us has a slightly different story.

My child, for example, has not stolen. He has taken a few things. It hurt me terribly, even though they were not big things. The betrayal hurt me. Let me explain how I felt. Maybe it will enable me to better understand your situation.

I felt as you do. That there was this vast quantity of love I have for him, years and years of devotion. How could he take a Kindle? How could he defy my proscription to not bring marijuana to my house, our house?

But, at the crux of my pain of these years in this kind of sense of betrayal. How did it turn out like this with so much love for so long? It just did not compute. I felt I did not deserve it.

But our kids do not think like this. They do love us, but they do not see it in terms of tit for tat. They want to do what they want to do. And they love us. They are on completely separate tracks for them.

COPA

I still don't think I can ever understand that behavior. But it brings me back to weather I believe it or not. It is! And I have to accept that, I know what I need to do but my heart and my brain are not on the same page yet

 

[Devasted Mom]

I do not agree with New Leaf and Albatross. I believe she did not think about the impact to you. I believe she had the impulse to take the money and she did. It might have happened that she believed there was no risk because she would pay it back before you knew. It may have entered her mind that you would not press charges if you found out.

My sister arranged that my mother's house be robbed, despite having no rightful power to enter her home, after she died. She felt entitled. She probably knew I would take no action against her.

I felt victimized. Even though I knew she could get into the house. I chose to not change the locks. Why I did that, is complicated even to me.You are making this up. This has no relation to what happened. She may have taken your money but she did not mean to hurt you. She just wanted the money. There was no intent to hurt.

I do not know how to explain it better.

Think about finding $10000 in the street. You pick it up. It belonged to somebody who is sick that they lost it. When you put it in your purse, the 10k, your intention is not to hurt the person who lost they money. Your intention was only to pocket the money.

I do not believe it was any different for your daughter.
While we wish she would have stopped to think about the consequences and the ramifications, she did not.
You are torturing yourself here. She does not put (or did not) put the two things together. Self-gratification, yes. Love for her mother, yes.

COPA

I get the 10000 analogy that would be a stranger though not my mother!

 

[New Leaf]

We are the safest targets. I don't think *you* entered into the thought process at all. It wasn't directed at YOU. The money was there, it paid for something that in her mind makes her feel complete

I think we are saying the same things, a little differently. We are the safest targets. My daughters took from us. They broke into our house to get inside, no thought about damage to the screens, the money and inconvenience and hurt for us. They wanted what they wanted.
There is something that drives this beyond what we know. I do not think it is tit for tat, either. It is a thought so all consuming, whether it be substance abuse, shopping addiction, mental illness, the need drives a person beyond all reason and rhyme.
Not to say there is no responsibility in the act of it, but I do believe they are not thinking in their right minds. The want, need, has superseded all else. There is no rational thought.

"Don’t take addiction personally
Sometimes family members take the addiction personally feeling that they are somehow responsible. Family members must come to realize that a person in the grip of an addiction is no longer acting with free will. Often times the person is simply trying to survive from one day to the next. They are not deliberately trying to hurt you, but are quite literally so obsessed with the intense need to locate their next drink, fix, or hit that they are unable to think about anything else."

from https://stonewallinstitute.com/for-family-loved-ones/ - (this is for drug and alcohol addiction, but shopping addiction is said to be just as bad....)

Devastated, learning about whatever is happening with your daughter may help you to understand it a little better, and to process it. I am not saying it will give you immediate relief, that takes time. While you are constantly thinking of this and grieving, learning about it may be a more proactive way to spend your time, then when you are ready, you can focus on healing.

You can start to build your toolbox to be ready for whatever may come around the bend.

Have you given more thought to seeing a counselor? It helped me to see a professional who could explain to me what was going on with my two. She also had resources for me, this gave me some direction and comfort in a very confusing time.

I understand the pain of this. When the kids started going off the rails, I felt as if I was on a parallel path with them. There was an all consuming, paralyzing grief. Went through many stages. Sure, I went to work and struggled with daily tasks, but underneath it all was this gut wrenching feeling of loss. I would wake in the middle of the night, just thinking and thinking. A lot of my earlier posts here, were written in the wee hours of the morning, I just couldn't sleep well.

There is a light at the end of this tunnel, but it does take time and work to get to it.

You will get to that light, Devastated. It is all so new for you now. Take the time you need to get your feelings out. Keep posting here. There isn't anything you could write that would shock folks here, most of us have run the mill of emotions over our adult children. Posting helps. It is a way to get it out and vent and receive responses from others who have felt the sting of wondering what the heck happened to our beloved kids.

We are all at different places along this path. Looking back, I remember the raw feelings searing right through to my bones.

Every once in a while, I am caught off guard with an overwhelming sadness. I say a quick prayer, and try to switch my focus. You have value and you matter. Be very kind to yourself.

You will be okay, D. Please know that you are not alone.
We have all been where you are at, on a similar path.
We understand.

(((HUGS))
leafy

 

[Copabanana]

I am unfamiliar with ok you stole my money but didn't intent to hurt me.

I get the 10000 analogy that would be a stranger though not my mother!

D, you understand about compartments, or think about a file with various folders. You are in the mother folder. The money was in the money folder. She saw the money but not the mother.

I take everything personally too. I am learning why. I think I mentioned I was reading a book called When Everything you ever wanted isn't enough, by Rabbi Kushner. I just finished it.

This is what I learned. We are afraid to die. Most of us. We want to believe our lives were worth living, that we made a difference in our lives. One way we do is through our children. They are our immortal gift. Through them and their children, our efforts, our spirits, our love, live forever, or at least we believe this on some level.

If we believe we failed with our children, we believe (perhaps not consciously) that we failed as people, that our lives failed. That is how deep this is.

I almost want to cry writing this, because I believe this is my deep pain. My son, being his mother, was the most important thing in my life. It redeemed me as a person.

And I feel I failed. As long as he is walking around with a hoody, not productive, almost homeless--it is I who believe she has failed. And I am piss-d off, because I do not like to fail. I try very hard to not fail. But I have no control over my son. Not one bit.

What I am saying will not easily take away the hurt, but it will help you understand. They do not think in terms of hurting or not hurting us. They are working out of their own folders, not ours. They do not think of consequences. I do not know if this is because of brain immaturity or illness or character or what. I do not think that is knowable right now because the proof of the pudding is in the eating...and the pudding is still being cooked.

She did not think either of your pain or her love for you or your love for her. She saw that money and she took it. End of story.

She did not lie to hurt anybody but to protect herself. However hurtful that was she did not mean to hurt you. I believe this.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

I forgot to say this. Comparing my son to me, hurts me very much. He is not me. I am not him.

By the time I was my son's age I had a profession and was working to achieve another one. What does that have to do with anything? We love these kids. End of story.

COPA

 

[Albatross]

Devastated, I want to clarify what I said. I DO believe this was an aberration for your daughter. I DO believe she feels terrible about it. I DO think she is sincere in her desire to make it right and do not think that you mean so little to her in general. I was just speaking about that moment, when the money meant more to her than the potential aftermath. She was probably not even counting on the aftermath ever arriving, and in that sense you were an abstraction to her. That hurts. Like it hurts when I think about my son spending coins his grandfather spent a lifetime collecting, ironically no doubt imagining he would leave them to his grandchildren one day. It hurts when we are discounted that way, but I don't think you were targeted. I'm sorry for the harshness of my post.

 

[DoneDad]

Part of what makes these crimes against us by our own children so terrible is that, to them, we are irrelevant. Our feelings, everything we've tried to teach them - none of it matters. They want what they want and they take it. Our feelings, the fact we're a family, the morals we tried to teach them. That's weighed against their greed and greed wins.

These situations force you to face the naked truth about who they are and also who we are. The truth can be harsh, but the truth shall set you free.

 

[BusynMember]

Addiction of any kind is an illness. Dont take it personally. All active addicts are selfish. Its part of the diseases symptoms.

 

[Devasted Mom]

I think we are saying the same things, a little differently. We are the safest targets. My daughters took from us. They broke into our house to get inside, no thought about damage to the screens, the money and inconvenience and hurt for us. They wanted what they wanted.
There is something that drives this beyond what we know. I do not think it is tit for tat, either. It is a thought so all consuming, whether it be substance abuse, shopping addiction, mental illness, the need drives a person beyond all reason and rhyme.
Not to say there is no responsibility in the act of it, but I do believe they are not thinking in their right minds. The want, need, has superseded all else. There is no rational thought.

"Don’t take addiction personally
Sometimes family members take the addiction personally feeling that they are somehow responsible. Family members must come to realize that a person in the grip of an addiction is no longer acting with free will. Often times the person is simply trying to survive from one day to the next. They are not deliberately trying to hurt you, but are quite literally so obsessed with the intense need to locate their next drink, fix, or hit that they are unable to think about anything else."

from https://stonewallinstitute.com/for-family-loved-ones/ - (this is for drug and alcohol addiction, but shopping addiction is said to be just as bad....)

Devastated, learning about whatever is happening with your daughter may help you to understand it a little better, and to process it. I am not saying it will give you immediate relief, that takes time. While you are constantly thinking of this and grieving, learning about it may be a more proactive way to spend your time, then when you are ready, you can focus on healing.

You can start to build your toolbox to be ready for whatever may come around the bend.

Have you given more thought to seeing a counselor? It helped me to see a professional who could explain to me what was going on with my two. She also had resources for me, this gave me some direction and comfort in a very confusing time.

I understand the pain of this. When the kids started going off the rails, I felt as if I was on a parallel path with them. There was an all consuming, paralyzing grief. Went through many stages. Sure, I went to work and struggled with daily tasks, but underneath it all was this gut wrenching feeling of loss. I would wake in the middle of the night, just thinking and thinking. A lot of my earlier posts here, were written in the wee hours of the morning, I just couldn't sleep well.

There is a light at the end of this tunnel, but it does take time and work to get to it.

You will get to that light, Devastated. It is all so new for you now. Take the time you need to get your feelings out. Keep posting here. There isn't anything you could write that would shock folks here, most of us have run the mill of emotions over our adult children. Posting helps. It is a way to get it out and vent and receive responses from others who have felt the sting of wondering what the heck happened to our beloved kids.

We are all at different places along this path. Looking back, I remember the raw feelings searing right through to my bones.

Every once in a while, I am caught off guard with an overwhelming sadness. I say a quick prayer, and try to switch my focus. You have value and you matter. Be very kind to yourself.

You will be okay, D. Please know that you are not alone.
We have all been where you are at, on a similar path.
We understand.

(((HUGS))
leafy

At this point I am going to begin reading and researching a lot of things we have discussed here. Knowledge has got to help me make some sense of this

 

[Copabanana]

At this point I am going to begin reading and researching a lot of things we have discussed here. Knowledge has got to help me make some sense of this

I hope you stay with us D. Try not to doubt yourself.

Take care,

COPA

 

[Devasted Mom]

D, you understand about compartments, or think about a file with various folders. You are in the mother folder. The money was in the money folder. She saw the money but not the mother.

I take everything personally too. I am learning why. I think I mentioned I was reading a book called When Everything you ever wanted isn't enough, by Rabbi Kushner. I just finished it.

This is what I learned. We are afraid to die. Most of us. We want to believe our lives were worth living, that we made a difference in our lives. One way we do is through our children. They are our immortal gift. Through them and their children, our efforts, our spirits, our love, live forever, or at least we believe this on some level.

If we believe we failed with our children, we believe (perhaps not consciously) that we failed as people, that our lives failed. That is how deep this is.

I almost want to cry writing this, because I believe this is my deep pain. My son, being his mother, was the most important thing in my life. It redeemed me as a person.

And I feel I failed. As long as he is walking around with a hoody, not productive, almost homeless--it is I who believe she has failed. And I am piss-d off, because I do not like to fail. I try very hard to not fail. But I have no control over my son. Not one bit.

What I am saying will not easily take away the hurt, but it will help you understand. They do not think in terms of hurting or not hurting us. They are working out of their own folders, not ours. They do not think of consequences. I do not know if this is because of brain immaturity or illness or character or what. I do not think that is knowable right now because the proof of the pudding is in the eating...and the pudding is still being cooked.

She did not think either of your pain or her love for you or your love for her. She saw that money and she took it. End of story.

She did not lie to hurt anybody but to protect herself. However hurtful that was she did not mean to hurt you. I believe this.

COPA

Compartments yes I get it . Exactly feeling the failure and am forcing my self to remember I am not a failure. I have given all I can give. The job is now hers. Still hard for me to rationalize the fact of not thinking of consequence, but i guess that will come in time. I share your deep pain . Being a successful parent has always been what defined me, I was always so proud of their accomplishments no matter how small. Proud of the adult I thought she would be. Turning the spectrum literally overnight. Everything I thought I knew I actually knew nothing. i must believe we will all raise above the turmoil and come out better on the other side

 

[Devasted Mom]

I hope you stay with us D. Try not to doubt yourself.

Take care,

COPA

Oh I am staying you are not getting rid of me anytime soon!!! Lol

 

[Devasted Mom]

Devastated, I want to clarify what I said. I DO believe this was an aberration for your daughter. I DO believe she feels terrible about it. I DO think she is sincere in her desire to make it right and do not think that you mean so little to her in general. I was just speaking about that moment, when the money meant more to her than the potential aftermath. She was probably not even counting on the aftermath ever arriving, and in that sense you were an abstraction to her. That hurts. Like it hurts when I think about my son spending coins his grandfather spent a lifetime collecting, ironically no doubt imagining he would leave them to his grandchildren one day. It hurts when we are discounted that way, but I don't think you were targeted. I'm sorry for the harshness of my post.

Noooooo need for clarification I understood everything you said and did not feel any negativity in your post. Please continue to give your honest opinions, I value them more than you can ever know. Your post was not harsh and please do not feel the need to apologize. This has been and continues to be my sanity,I welcome all different opinions and everyone's honesty. Keep it coming!

 

[Copabanana]

Being a successful parent has always been what defined me

Being a Mom made me. Made my life. I have a career. I was successful. Hobbies. Everything was him. It is hard to explain. You have several children. Every one of them is 100 percent of you. I do not think anybody who has not been through this could really understand the pain and fear.

Everything I thought I knew I actually knew nothing

You were not the one who stole that money. It is not your fault. She is the one who made the terrible mistake. Not you. Remember. Her failure is not yours. Even though it feels like it. I know.

COPA

 

[Devasted Mom]

Part of what makes these crimes against us by our own children so terrible is that, to them, we are irrelevant. Our feelings, everything we've tried to teach them - none of it matters. They want what they want and they take it. Our feelings, the fact we're a family, the morals we tried to teach them. That's weighed against their greed and greed wins.

These situations force you to face the naked truth about who they are and also who we are. The truth can be harsh, but the truth shall set you free.

I have realized there is a very thin line between a criminal mind and rational mind.The power is in addiction no matter what it might be. Greed will take someone down. As you can see first hand reading about my current situation. It's has rocked my family to the deepest core . Unfortunately I have not yet an answer for what will set me free

 

[Devasted Mom]

Being a Mom made me. Made my life. I have a career. I was successful. Hobbies. Everything was him. It is hard to explain. You have several children. Every one of them is 100 percent of you. I do not think anybody who has not been through this could really understand the pain and fear.
You were not the one who stole that money. It is not your fault. She is the one who made the terrible mistake. Not you. Remember. Her failure is not yours. Even though it feels like it. I know.

COPA

I guess part of the problem is putting such a large emotional investment into a person , yet that is the way a mom is built. I guess I have to separate the mom part